Real Estate

Realtor agent sketchy bid situation?

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  • Jan 28th, 2022 1:09 pm
[OP]
Member
Jul 25, 2010
471 posts
173 upvotes

Realtor agent sketchy bid situation?

We put in an offer of about 1m on a house (outside GTA). No financing or home condition, and a flexible closing date for the seller.

We lose the bid, and the winning bid ends up being only 10k higher than our bid plus the buyer agent is the seller agent's father (they both work at the same brokerage of 2 people ).

Can't prove it for sure, obviously, but that has to be more than a coincidence. A viable complaint?
47 replies
Sr. Member
Oct 14, 2010
569 posts
596 upvotes
Toronto
wjch wrote: We put in an offer of about 1m on a house (outside GTA). No financing or home condition, and a flexible closing date for the seller.

We lose the bid, and the winning bid ends up being only 10k higher than our bid plus the buyer agent is the seller agent's father (they both work at the same brokerage of 2 people ).

Can't prove it for sure, obviously, but that has to be more than a coincidence. A viable complaint?
I would say move on, how would you prove any misconduct here? I am sure the deal was double-ended, but proof???
Move on, let Karma handle this one. Your time and energy are best spent somewhere else.
[OP]
Member
Jul 25, 2010
471 posts
173 upvotes
kittypink wrote: If you lost and you had the higher bid, then it's a viable complaint...
I mean, what I'm saying is, is it even possible to get a higher bid if they can always just offer my bid + 1 dollar with insider information about the bids? (in this case +10k) unless I go far beyond what the other buyer can afford
Alpine84 wrote: Yup you got screwed.
Yup, that's my gut reaction. Pisses me off. Obviously can't prove it easily. Most I can do is RECO complaint now. The listing agent even sent us an email on bidding day saying that they are "not representing any buyers so feel free to send offers whenever"
[OP]
Member
Jul 25, 2010
471 posts
173 upvotes
budwizestest wrote: I would say move on, how would you prove any misconduct here? I am sure the deal was double-ended, but proof???
Move on, let Karma handle this one. Your time and energy are best spent somewhere else.
It was an unusual procedure too - it was set to only accept offers on one day, and halfway through the day the listing agent sent out an email saying how many offers were in. At the deadline, they sent another email saying that there were X number of offers and you can amend your bid. Just driving up the price so their relative can add 10k to it and win the bid for maximum amount of gain.
Deal Addict
Dec 5, 2009
1756 posts
2057 upvotes
Yup file the complaint and move on. If something comes of it, great. If it doesn't, * it. It sucks but it is what it is sometimes.
Sr. Member
Oct 14, 2010
569 posts
596 upvotes
Toronto
wjch wrote: It was an unusual procedure too - it was set to only accept offers on one day, and halfway through the day the listing agent sent out an email saying how many offers were in. At the deadline, they sent another email saying that there were X number of offers and you can amend your bid. Just driving up the price so their relative can add 10k to it and win the bid for maximum amount of gain.
This is pretty normal in terms of sending out an update on number of registered offers a couple of time to drum up the price. Nothing illegal in that, think of it, wouldnt you want the most offers and price when you are selling?

It is up to the buyers to not play the emotion game and take a call on what they wan to do.

They probably leaked the pricing info to their relative and that shouldnt have been done. But how are you going to prove this?
[OP]
Member
Jul 25, 2010
471 posts
173 upvotes
budwizestest wrote: This is pretty normal in terms of sending out an update on number of registered offers a couple of time to drum up the price. Nothing illegal in that, think of it, wouldnt you want the most offers and price when you are selling?

It is up to the buyers to not play the emotion game and take a call on what they wan to do.

They probably leaked the pricing info to their relative and that shouldnt have been done. But how are you going to prove this?
Yup, sucks. It just pisses me off and enforces stereotypes about real estate agents. Losing to bully bids is fine, but losing by 10k due to unethical sharing of information grinds my gears. Gonna complain about it for an hour or two to everyone and then get back to life.
By relative I mean direct family member at a brokerage of only 2 people. No way they didn't share information.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 30, 2005
1849 posts
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Ottawa, ON
wjch wrote: It was an unusual procedure too - it was set to only accept offers on one day, and halfway through the day the listing agent sent out an email saying how many offers were in. At the deadline, they sent another email saying that there were X number of offers and you can amend your bid. Just driving up the price so their relative can add 10k to it and win the bid for maximum amount of gain.
Just so you know, the seller actually has the absolute right to divulge the price from any bidder in order to get a higher offer. The seller can dictate to his agent how they want it to play out and in whatever manner they choose to get them the best price. Now from what you mentioned above, nothing seems at odds with the way I've seen these notifications play out on offer day. You could ask RECO to look into if the father inappropriately/exclusively gave information to his son that would disadvantage you and ultimately, be at the detriment to his seller since you are implying that you would have gladly paid more than the winning bid. RECO may be able to look at the timing of all bids (as most are digitally signed now) to see if in fact, the son place his buyer's offer after all others, suggesting his buyer's were advantaged.. maybe. Goodluck but at the end of the day, not sure how this would help you. Offer is accepted by the seller so not like they can now go back on it even if you say you'd offer them more.
[OP]
Member
Jul 25, 2010
471 posts
173 upvotes
ZxExN wrote: Just so you know, the seller actually has the absolute right to divulge the price from any bidder in order to get a higher offer. The seller can dictate to his agent how they want it to play out and in whatever manner they choose to get them the best price. Now from what you mentioned above, nothing seems at odds with the way I've seen these notifications play out on offer day. You could ask RECO to look into if the father inappropriately/exclusively gave information to his son that would disadvantage you and ultimately, be at the detriment to his seller since you are implying that you would have gladly paid more than the winning bid. RECO may be able to look at the timing of all bids (as most are digitally signed now) to see if in fact, the son place his buyer's offer after all others, suggesting his buyer's were advantaged.. maybe. Goodluck but at the end of the day, not sure how this would help you. Offer is accepted by the seller so not like they can now go back on it even if you say you'd offer them more.
Yeah, as you said, hard to prove. Or it could be the situation where the seller's liked another family more (included letter) and wanted to give them the opportunity to beat our offer and sold. It's just sketchy because of the buyer agent relationship.
Deal Fanatic
May 4, 2014
5159 posts
6946 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Realtors are slimey - what's new?

If anything, the buyer who won the bid got the shortest end of the stick overpaying by $9999.

Consider yourself lucky.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3788 upvotes
Thornhill
$10k is $10k more than you offered. It could be fishy or it could be not. But there is more to an offer than money, it includes the closing date, warranties, representations, inclusions, exclusions, size of deposit even and can even hinge on whether or not an offer was presented in a professional or rude manner.
wjch wrote: We put in an offer of about 1m on a house (outside GTA). No financing or home condition, and a flexible closing date for the seller.

We lose the bid, and the winning bid ends up being only 10k higher than our bid plus the buyer agent is the seller agent's father (they both work at the same brokerage of 2 people ).

Can't prove it for sure, obviously, but that has to be more than a coincidence. A viable complaint?
ZxExN wrote: Just so you know, the seller actually has the absolute right to divulge the price from any bidder in order to get a higher offer. The seller can dictate to his agent how they want it to play out and in whatever manner they choose to get them the best price. Now from what you mentioned above, nothing seems at odds with the way I've seen these notifications play out on offer day.
Just so you know, in Ontario, a seller may them self disclose any information they choose but their Realtor by current law is forbidden from doing so in any form or fashion. Any disclosure to anything in a competing offer, even the date and time of an irrevocable by another buyer in a multiple offer scenario is a forbidden disclosure. If then the seller's agent disclosed anything to his father or tothe other buyer, they can be brought up on charges with RECO.
[OP]
Member
Jul 25, 2010
471 posts
173 upvotes
licenced wrote: $10k is $10k more than you offered. It could be fishy or it could be not. But there is more to an offer than money, it includes the closing date, warranties, representations, inclusions, exclusions, size of deposit even and can even hinge on whether or not an offer was presented in a professional or rude manner.

Just so you know, in Ontario, a seller may them self disclose any information they choose but their Realtor by current law is forbidden from doing so in any form or fashion. Any disclosure to anything in a competing offer, even the date and time of an irrevocable by another buyer in a multiple offer scenario is a forbidden disclosure. If then the seller's agent disclosed anything to his father or tothe other buyer, they can be brought up on charges with RECO.
Makes sense. I know there are differences to other parts of the offer. In terms of the way the offer is presented I would guess that the seller would present the offer from their own family member as more professional than anyone else's.
10k is more, but a very slight margin (1% or less) to win the bid by. In terms of detached house real estate, if someone was given the offer to add 10k to win the bid, I would surmise that a large % of buyers would do so when given insider information.

Oh well, it's been an hour, I raged and now it's time to move on
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3788 upvotes
Thornhill
Two months ago my buyer lost on a bid where our offer was $10k more, closed on the day the sellers wanted but included a representation and warranty that the property was not subject to seepage.

I represented sellers in the sale of their property several years ago. There were two buyers, both different agents, and quite by coincidence both offers came in $1,000 apart in price with the exact closing date, no conditions. One deposit was less by about $10k. I asked both to improve and told the one with the low deposit that it too was insufficent .

Both came back with identical deposit, closing date and no conditions, no variables in terms. But the offer price for the one with the low deposit was just shy of $40 higher than the other, I kid you not. I did not like this agent who attended at the property 1 hour late, overstayed and left it unlocked then arrived to make the offer while reeking of booze and was downright rude to my sellers.

No matter how I tried to impress upon my clients that of the two the agent for the buyer with the higher price is likely to pull shenanigans until closing, it fell on deaf ears and in a deal that was setting a record on the street by tens of thousands, the sellers opted for the additional $34.

They buyer and agent were nothing but trouble until closing.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 27, 2004
7733 posts
5699 upvotes
Toronto
I lost out on a home by 2,000 like 3 months ago.
The listing agents double ended the deal.

shit happens, move on.
Full-time Realtor
Deal Fanatic
Mar 27, 2004
7733 posts
5699 upvotes
Toronto
er34er34 wrote: Realtors are slimey - what's new?

If anything, the buyer who won the bid got the shortest end of the stick overpaying by $9999.

Consider yourself lucky.
Its slimy only when you are on the losing side.

Sellers are happy right now getting record prices.
Full-time Realtor
Deal Addict
Mar 2, 2017
3213 posts
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Toronto/Markham
wjch wrote: Makes sense. I know there are differences to other parts of the offer. In terms of the way the offer is presented I would guess that the seller would present the offer from their own family member as more professional than anyone else's.
10k is more, but a very slight margin (1% or less) to win the bid by. In terms of detached house real estate, if someone was given the offer to add 10k to win the bid, I would surmise that a large % of buyers would do so when given insider information.

Oh well, it's been an hour, I raged and now it's time to move on
Sucks about what happened, this happens all the time (losing on amounts this close), but I suspect that you are inferring that the son told the father what the highest offer was to which he added 10k more to seem 'legit' when he was going to win it? I guess if it was 3k or 5k more it would've raised more flags, but being the relationship father plus son and same brokerage I am going to have to say they played you.

That said, this is one of those things that will be next to impossible to prove nor is it worth chasing.

Only question I have is did the listing agent ask you to improve your original offer or did they just take it and then say the other offer is better and seller is taking it?
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[OP]
Member
Jul 25, 2010
471 posts
173 upvotes
RichmondCA wrote: Sucks about what happened, this happens all the time (losing on amounts this close), but I suspect that you are inferring that the son told the father what the highest offer was to which he added 10k more to seem 'legit' when he was going to win it? I guess if it was 3k or 5k more it would've raised more flags, but being the relationship father plus son and same brokerage I am going to have to say they played you.

That said, this is one of those things that will be next to impossible to prove nor is it worth chasing.

Only question I have is did the listing agent ask you to improve your original offer or did they just take it and then say the other offer is better and seller is taking it?
We raised it before the end of the "deadline" because of the seller agent saying that there were X number of offers already. After the deadline, they didn't come back and say anything. Just said another offer was accepted.
Deal Addict
Mar 2, 2017
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How many offers registered?
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