Home & Garden

Rebuilding deck questions

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 21st, 2020 11:39 pm
Tags:
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 16, 2009
64 posts
44 upvotes
Toronto

Rebuilding deck questions

I am looking to do a diy rebuilt of an old deck that came with the house. Since the deck is just under 2 feet, no permit was required and it clearly was not built with the best standards. Its getting old and I am considering to do something about it. Its a 8' x 12' deck with a few steps down to the backyard.
The existing deck has one side attached to the house and the other side supported by 2 4x4 on round pavers.. and 1 4x4 just on the ground. I am not looking to rebuild with any excessive, just replicate the current dimension and design.
keeping it under 2', a few questions..

1. Is it a good idea to continue using the round pavers as support for the same dimension? I am thinking of using 3 pylex foundation screws to support the deck.
2. Would I run into any problem removing the old ledger board and fasteners? Can I use the same holes? Any issues if I drill new holes slight off the current holes?

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated!
Images
  • 1.jpg
  • 2.jpg
  • 3.jpg
  • 4.jpg
  • 5.jpg
  • Current Deck.PNG
  • New Deck 2.PNG
Last edited by ttaepr on Jul 20th, 2020 11:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
18 replies
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11982 posts
7138 upvotes
Paris
The top of that deck is less than 23-7/8” off the ground at all points? I had a hell of a time keeping mine that low with deck blocks, beams, joists and decking.

If its under 24”, deck blocks are fine.
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 16, 2009
64 posts
44 upvotes
Toronto
Jerico wrote: The top of that deck is less than 23-7/8” off the ground at all points? I had a hell of a time keeping mine that low with deck blocks, beams, joists and decking.

If its under 24”, deck blocks are fine.
Yeah, I measured and its clear that person who built this kept the height exactly at 23-7/8", just under 24". Is there anything I need to consider or pay attention when removing the old ledger board and installing new ledger board?
Deal Fanatic
Nov 18, 2005
5078 posts
1487 upvotes
Kitchener
Most municipalities require a permit if directly supported by the house foundation or framing. Might want to check that before starting anything
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Aug 29, 2001
5909 posts
1355 upvotes
rural ontario
Not clear from the pictures if the ledger board is actually bolted to the house or is just resting on boards bolted to the house (making it a floating deck)
72 69 6c 6c 65 73
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
22895 posts
21742 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
Check your local bylaws.
Cuz rules can differ by Jurisdiction
The 23-7/8 “ height measurement refers to the Ontario Building Code
But ... bylaw will dictate permits in regards size & foundation of deck
In most cases ...
If it’s attached to your house ... in ANY WAY then it needs a permit
Whether it’s a NEW or Rebuilt Deck

We got around this on our rebuild
Cuz we went with a TRUE Floating Deck
It’s not attached to the house
And no poured foundation ... we dug down
Did crushed rock, compacted, and then patio stones levelled
With deck blocks on top
Deal Addict
Sep 12, 2007
2886 posts
1006 upvotes
Start here: https://www.toronto.ca/services-payment ... d-porches/

You can have a deck that's higher than 2 feet on deck blocks, as long as the design is sound and it's braced properly, and the city gives you the permit for it.

I would use deck blocks, especially if the ground is not disturbed. Both my decks (4 feet of the ground 4x8 off patio door), and 10 x 20 L shaped around semi-inground pool, under 24") I built on deck blocks. If that deck is connected to the house, it's not good.

Having said that, I have seen many front porches around my area, sitting on deck blocks at the front, and connected to the house.... maybe grandfathered in somehow. I've also seen the same, back decks at NEW constructions where the outer part is on deck blocks, and tied to the house, not sure how permits were issued, clearly contractors don't always get a permit for things or know loopholes...
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 16, 2009
64 posts
44 upvotes
Toronto
rilles wrote: Not clear from the pictures if the ledger board is actually bolted to the house or is just resting on boards bolted to the house (making it a floating deck)
I have attached some pictures showing what seems to be a ledger board resting on boards bolted to the house and also the ledger board secured to the house. Is this correct? Any idea what that metal cylinder/hose sticking out from the ledger could be?
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 16, 2009
64 posts
44 upvotes
Toronto
vodka wrote: Start here: https://www.toronto.ca/services-payment ... d-porches/

You can have a deck that's higher than 2 feet on deck blocks, as long as the design is sound and it's braced properly, and the city gives you the permit for it.

I would use deck blocks, especially if the ground is not disturbed. Both my decks (4 feet of the ground 4x8 off patio door), and 10 x 20 L shaped around semi-inground pool, under 24") I built on deck blocks. If that deck is connected to the house, it's not good.

Having said that, I have seen many front porches around my area, sitting on deck blocks at the front, and connected to the house.... maybe grandfathered in somehow. I've also seen the same, back decks at NEW constructions where the outer part is on deck blocks, and tied to the house, not sure how permits were issued, clearly contractors don't always get a permit for things or know loopholes...
Looks like the deck is somewhat connected to the house... not good?
Yes, the ground has been undisturbed at least 10+ years, so deck blocks sound like a good option. I cant really understand whats going on in pictures 4 and 5 with the bolt onto the house and that metal tubing...
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11982 posts
7138 upvotes
Paris
ttaepr wrote: Looks like the deck is somewhat connected to the house... not good?
Yes, the ground has been undisturbed at least 10+ years, so deck blocks sound like a good option. I cant really understand whats going on in pictures 4 and 5 with the bolt onto the house and that metal tubing...
Those are anchors that have pulled away from the house. The wood was put there to reinforce after the deck almost fell down (and note the wood isnt the right height and needed a wood shim). Thats some real duct tape Red Green construction.
Deal Addict
Sep 12, 2007
2886 posts
1006 upvotes
Jerico wrote: Thats some real duct tape Red Green construction.
This made me laugh out loud, well played sir! I concur with your conclusion.
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 16, 2009
64 posts
44 upvotes
Toronto
Jerico wrote: Those are anchors that have pulled away from the house. The wood was put there to reinforce after the deck almost fell down (and note the wood isnt the right height and needed a wood shim). Thats some real duct tape Red Green construction.
Thanks for the explanation. Does that mean that this deck is technically connected to the house with that bolt into the foundation? I am going to opt for the floating deck route to rebuild this.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11982 posts
7138 upvotes
Paris
ttaepr wrote: Thanks for the explanation. Does that mean that this deck is technically connected to the house with that bolt into the foundation? I am going to opt for the floating deck route to rebuild this.
By a slim margin it is technically connected to the house. Like a tomato is technically a fruit.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
18012 posts
9001 upvotes
Jerico wrote: By a slim margin it is technically connected to the house. Like a tomato is technically a fruit.
You're too generous. It's the equivalent of referring to a fart as a "warm breeze".

Your detective work on why there is those weird perpendicular braces seems accurate. I certainly wouldn't reuse anything the previous builder has touched, I would work to remove it and seal it properly, and I would simply go with a true floating deck at this point.
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 16, 2009
64 posts
44 upvotes
Toronto
I just attached the current deck footprint and new deck plan. Please excuse my basic drawing. As you can tell thus far, I am new to this DIY stuff. Any comments on suggestion or deficiency would be appreciated. The new plan is free standing deck just under 2' with two step box to the left.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
18012 posts
9001 upvotes
ttaepr wrote: I just attached the current deck footprint and new deck plan. Please excuse my basic drawing. As you can tell thus far, I am new to this DIY stuff. Any comments on suggestion or deficiency would be appreciated. The new plan is free standing deck just under 2' with two step box to the left.
Best document I have seen - worth a read:
https://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards ... e-1804.pdf

American but great info none the less.

My comments:
a) You want to make sure to install blocking between your joists for stability where it crosses the beam.
b) Install extra support where you plan to install your railing posts (assuming you have them - if not do it anyways in case for the future). This can be as simple as a piece of 2x10 installed perpendicular to the joists and face up - so you can screw into it). Do now, hard to do later.
c) I can't see the numbers but I take it you're going around 20" between joists? A non-standard number but make sure your measurements for things like overhang still take that into account (so just go with the 16" OC measurement)
d) Make sure to use the proper fasteners and brackets (Simpson is a very popular brand). They will specify what type of nails and screws to use - if using screws they will likely recommend structural ones.
e) I am clearly missing the obvious of what the 4' 10" section is going to be supported by
f) I don't understand if you have stairs attached to the deck or floating?

Those are my initial thoughts.

(note the first picture did not load for me, just the second)
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11982 posts
7138 upvotes
Paris
ttaepr wrote: I just attached the current deck footprint and new deck plan. Please excuse my basic drawing. As you can tell thus far, I am new to this DIY stuff. Any comments on suggestion or deficiency would be appreciated. The new plan is free standing deck just under 2' with two step box to the left.
I would stick to 16” OC otherwise you will need to use 2x decking instead of 5/4 decking (2x6s vs deck boards). One of your joists wont work out perfect at 16” OC but thats ok. At 20”, it will be springy.
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 16, 2009
64 posts
44 upvotes
Toronto
TrevorK wrote: Best document I have seen - worth a read:
https://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards ... e-1804.pdf

American but great info none the less.

My comments:
a) You want to make sure to install blocking between your joists for stability where it crosses the beam.
I will add that to the plan.

b) Install extra support where you plan to install your railing posts (assuming you have them - if not do it anyways in case for the future). This can be as simple as a piece of 2x10 installed perpendicular to the joists and face up - so you can screw into it). Do now, hard to do later.
Good tip. I will look into adding that.

c) I can't see the numbers but I take it you're going around 20" between joists? A non-standard number but make sure your measurements for things like overhang still take that into account (so just go with the 16" OC measurement)
I have updated with a cleaner picture. Yes, I measured about 20" between joists. I am unsure if my understanding of the overhang/cantilever is correct, but are the overhang 10"?

d) Make sure to use the proper fasteners and brackets (Simpson is a very popular brand). They will specify what type of nails and screws to use - if using screws they will likely recommend structural ones.
e) I am clearly missing the obvious of what the 4' 10" section is going to be supported by
f) I don't understand if you have stairs attached to the deck or floating?
The 4'10" section is actually the first box step/stair and then there will be a second box step about 2'5" sitting on top of the 4'10". I have patio stones under that section right now, so thats what the boxes will be on.

Those are my initial thoughts.

(note the first picture did not load for me, just the second)
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
18012 posts
9001 upvotes
ttaepr wrote: ...
Oh yes - that makes sense with your box step.

If I read correctly you have the beam overhanging your concrete support by 10"? Why wouldn't you just put it snug on the corner? Is this because you are using deck blocks and don't want it to stick out? It will be fine - I just don't know why you wouldn't have it right on the corners if you could. The joist overhang of 10" is perfectly fine if I recall from the PDF.

The 20" between joists is an odd choice. For the low price of another joist why not buy another?

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)