Recently bought an Power Wheelchair value 8000$ but big surprize.

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Aug 19th, 2019 7:22 am

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Aug 15th, 2019 12:51 pm

NF2Paralized [OP]: Newbie; Aug 14, 2019; 4 posts; 7 upvotes

Aug 15th, 2019 12:51 pm

Recently bought an Power Wheelchair value 8000$ but big surprize.

Hello everyone. Recently, bought a brand-new Power wheelchair value 8000$ two months ago, precisely in the month of May. I rarely use my Power Wheelchair. 2 weeks ago when I had to use this power wheelchair for the first time in my life. My PSW nurse charge the Power Wheelchair 12 hours, but no work. The vendor of my brand new Power wheelchair, he doesn't give any instruction concerning the battery, he doesn't say anything or send in my email address some instruction and the document manual in PDF of this brand new Power wheelchair and the bill of this brand new Power Wheelchair. Or give instruction to admin staff and nurse PSW or staff in maintenance of my nursing home. I planned use Power Wheechair 3 to 4 times a year in hospital appointment.

My settlement worker email the vendor of my Powercheelchair. He responds, " You are required to charge your w/c at least once a week in order to maintain the battery,“. “Dimitri thinks that since this did not happen the battery is unable to be charged and you will need to replace the battery. I have attached the quote he provided to pay for the replacement battery and the service fee to install it. He feels that ODSP should cover the cost. Once the chair is replaced, I can discuss with the team a plan to ensure your battery is charged going forward."

The problem, I am severe paralysis, deaf and nonverbal.
1- I have never used this Power Wheelchair.

2- The vendor, now said to recharge the Power wheelchair regularly.

3- I am severely paralysis, deaf and nonverbal.

4- The vendor of my Power Wheelchair never gave me the paper instructions of the Power Wheelchair and neither sent by email PDF document attachment PDF.

5- He never informed me of the instruction in writing live or informed by internet email. Or inform PSW nurse or admin staff the instruction.
Not very good vendor. Like sell a brand new electric car but no work or ever work and 2 months later, inform, "Dimitri thinks that since this did not happen the battery is unable to be charged and you will need to replace the battery. I have attached the quote he provided to pay for the replacement battery and the service fee to install it. He feels that ODSP should cover the cost. ", I am the paralysis man and nonverbal very funny. SCAMMER !

I already inform my settlement worker and my LHIN agent but they skip this subject, blind eye and deaf concerning my Power Wheelchair brand new value 8000$.

I read is 800$ a new battery replacement cost. Even pay by ODSP. I know this seller, not very good people. Next, what is a step ? Pay 800$for replacement a new battery?

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Last edited by NF2Paralized on Aug 16th, 2019 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

19 replies

Aug 15th, 2019 3:37 pm

adamtheman: Deal Fanatic; Dec 3, 2004; 5077 posts; 3447 upvotes; Vancouver

Aug 15th, 2019 3:37 pm

He is LYING FLAT OUT! And here is your proof:

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp ... r-0908.pdf

While most conventional liquid acid batteries self-discharge at 10 to 25%, the DOMINATOR has a selfdischarge rate of less than 2% per month (at 77°F). This means that you can leave it for months without worrying about recharging.

Deep cell batteries like this are used in the most intensive operations like MARINE, RV, and GOLF CARTS and are designed to be pushed to the limits. They can be almost fully drained and then recharged back up again. It is ridiculous to say that they need to be charged weekly or else they will die. That is a fraudulent statement pure and simple.

+9

Aug 15th, 2019 3:48 pm

death_hawk: Deal Expert; Aug 22, 2006; 23935 posts; 9485 upvotes

Aug 15th, 2019 3:48 pm

adamtheman wrote: ↑
Aug 15th, 2019 3:37 pm
While most conventional liquid acid batteries self-discharge at 10 to 25%,

If it was worst case scenario even at 25% discharge and it was shipped partially charged you should still be able to recover.
Also 25%? I'm no battery expert (I know some about them) but 25%? That seems ridiculously high.

OP is getting scammed.

Aug 15th, 2019 3:58 pm

adamtheman: Deal Fanatic; Dec 3, 2004; 5077 posts; 3447 upvotes; Vancouver

Aug 15th, 2019 3:58 pm

death_hawk wrote: ↑
Aug 15th, 2019 3:48 pm
If it was worst case scenario even at 25% discharge and it was shipped partially charged you should still be able to recover.
Also 25%? I'm no battery expert (I know some about them) but 25%? That seems ridiculously high.

OP is getting scammed.

No no. It's worse than that. You didn't read the full quote. That 10-25% discharge rate is for normal conventional batteries. The battery in his wheelchair is NOT a normal battery, it is a Dominator AGM deel cycle battery (one of the best batteries made in the world). It only has a discharge rate of 2% per month, NOT 25%. So if it was shipped fully charged it would have around 96% capacity after 3 months of non-usage.

Obviously it was shipped with dead batteries that had been sitting for probably 2 years.

My suggestion to the poster.... open up the battery compartment and check the DATES stamped on the side of the batteries (manufacturer date). See how old the batteries are.

The only other possibility is that the OP left the wheelchair turned on somehow and the batteries drained, but that is unlikely as these wheelchairs should have a feature to protect against that. The wheelchairs also usually have a feature that protects against fully draining the battery. So the only logical conclusion is that this wheelchair is old stock and had sat for a long time.

Aug 15th, 2019 4:08 pm

death_hawk: Deal Expert; Aug 22, 2006; 23935 posts; 9485 upvotes

Aug 15th, 2019 4:08 pm

adamtheman wrote: ↑
Aug 15th, 2019 3:58 pm
No no. It's worse than that. You didn't read the full quote. That 10-25% discharge rate is for normal conventional batteries. The battery in his wheelchair is NOT a normal battery, it is a Dominator AGM deel cycle battery (one of the best batteries made in the world). It only has a discharge rate of 2% per month, NOT 25%. So if it was shipped fully charged it would have around 96% capacity after 3 months of non-usage.

That's what I mean though. If they used a crappy battery instead of a Deka, (almost) worst case it should still be fine. Let's say shipped with half charge, minus 25% for 2 months = It'd be dead but still should be chargeable. It'll have a reduced cycle life, but should still come back.

Now... if it was actually a half charged Deka, there's no way in hell it'd die in a year let alone in a month.

Side note: I like Dekas, but they're expensive.

EDIT: I should have mentioned if it was a different battery in my original post.

Aug 15th, 2019 4:30 pm

adamtheman: Deal Fanatic; Dec 3, 2004; 5077 posts; 3447 upvotes; Vancouver

Aug 15th, 2019 4:30 pm

death_hawk wrote: ↑
Aug 15th, 2019 4:08 pm
That's what I mean though. If they used a crappy battery instead of a Deka, (almost) worst case it should still be fine. Let's say shipped with half charge, minus 25% for 2 months = It'd be dead but still should be chargeable. It'll have a reduced cycle life, but should still come back.

Now... if it was actually a half charged Deka, there's no way in hell it'd die in a year let alone in a month.

Side note: I like Dekas, but they're expensive.

EDIT: I should have mentioned if it was a different battery in my original post.

I have never heard of any power wheelchair (certainly not for $8000) that comes with anything other than AGM deep cycle. I think that's what AGM Deep cycles are meant for, literally. No maintenance, can be drained almost fully.

My thing is... those DEKA batteries should be under warranty, independent of the wheelchair. I wonder why the dealer isn't offering to replace them under warranty. I don't want to speculate but this kind of stuff makes me suspicious. I wonder if the dealer would sell new batteries to a person, then take the old batteries and return them to DEKA and get two new batteries under warranty (essentially FRAUD). I would certainly hope that kind of stuff never happens, e.g., taking advantage of people especially someone disabled. But of course we know it happens every day.

+3

Aug 15th, 2019 4:34 pm

death_hawk: Deal Expert; Aug 22, 2006; 23935 posts; 9485 upvotes

Aug 15th, 2019 4:34 pm

adamtheman wrote: ↑
Aug 15th, 2019 4:30 pm
I have never heard of any power wheelchair (certainly not for $8000) that comes with anything other than AGM deep cycle. I think that's what AGM Deep cycles are meant for, literally. No maintenance, can be drained almost fully.

I have no experience with power wheelchairs, but I use AGMs quite frequently.
I was thinking some cheap Chinese brand or something vs a well known reputable manufacturer.
And yeah, AGMs are designed for this. They shouldn't be drained fully but will survive better than a regular lead acid that's been drained fully.
You'll only get a couple drains with a lead acid vs quite a bit more with AGM.

I don't want to speculate but this kind of stuff makes me suspicious.

OP's entire post (not the content, but the situation) makes me suspicious.
Nothing about what he was told makes any sense.

If you're not going to speculate, I'll be happy to do it: He's getting scammed.

Aug 15th, 2019 4:39 pm

adamtheman: Deal Fanatic; Dec 3, 2004; 5077 posts; 3447 upvotes; Vancouver

Aug 15th, 2019 4:39 pm

death_hawk wrote: ↑
Aug 15th, 2019 4:34 pm

OP's entire post (not the content, but the situation) makes me suspicious.
Nothing about what he was told makes any sense.

If you're not going to speculate, I'll be happy to do it: He's getting scammed.

Especially since ODSP covers the cost. It sounds like the ultimate scam. There's so many ways you could run this. For instance, wheelchair arrives at the vendor... he takes the two good batteries out of it and puts them aside, and puts two old cheap dead batteries in the wheelchair instead. Those fail, so the buyer comes back to him and he now sells them the two good batteries for an extra $900. But since ODSP pays for them "no one gets hurt"... oh except the tax payers of Ontario.

+5

Aug 15th, 2019 4:43 pm

death_hawk: Deal Expert; Aug 22, 2006; 23935 posts; 9485 upvotes

Aug 15th, 2019 4:43 pm

adamtheman wrote: ↑
Aug 15th, 2019 4:39 pm
Especially since ODSP covers the cost. It sounds like the ultimate scam. There's so many ways you could run this. For instance, wheelchair arrives at the vendor... he takes the two good batteries out of it and puts them aside, and puts two old cheap dead batteries in the wheelchair instead. Those fail, so the buyer comes back to him and he now sells them the two good batteries for an extra $900. But since ODSP pays for them "no one gets hurt"... oh except the tax payers of Ontario.

I "like" this. This sounds perfect.

*I don't actually like this, but I suspect this is what's happening.

+4

Aug 17th, 2019 9:02 am

NF2Paralized [OP]: Newbie; Aug 14, 2019; 4 posts; 7 upvotes

Aug 17th, 2019 9:02 am

And I am not like you can walk and can talk. More easy complain.
He though I am impairment deaf so more easy chip chot SCAMM. ODSP will covert the fee so he know that and abuse the situation. He responds, " You are required to charge your w/c at least once a week in order to maintain the battery,“. “Dimitri thinks that since this did not happen the battery is unable to be charged and you will need to replace the battery. I have attached the quote he provided to pay for the replacement battery and the service fee to install it. He feels that ODSP should cover the cost. Once the chair is replaced, I can discuss with the team a plan to ensure your battery is charged going forward."I read is 800$ a new battery replacement cost. Even pay by ODSP. I know this seller, not very good people.

+3

Aug 17th, 2019 9:47 am

Supercooled: Deal Expert; Dec 4, 2010; 17723 posts; 1758 upvotes; Space for rent

Aug 17th, 2019 9:47 am

Someone call/email them to threaten to expose them. I'm sure they will gladly compensate the battery no problem. Think Tom Cruises character in Collateral where he pretends to be a high-power lawyer and threatens the cab operator.

+2

Aug 17th, 2019 4:52 pm

death_hawk: Deal Expert; Aug 22, 2006; 23935 posts; 9485 upvotes

Aug 17th, 2019 4:52 pm

NF2Paralized wrote: ↑
Aug 17th, 2019 9:02 am
" You are required to charge your w/c at least once a week in order to maintain the battery,“

Yeah... that's not how AGM batteries work.
You should top them off regularly, but once a week is HUGELY overkill.
Once a quarter would be totally fine.

+1

Aug 17th, 2019 5:23 pm

NF2Paralized [OP]: Newbie; Aug 14, 2019; 4 posts; 7 upvotes

Aug 17th, 2019 5:23 pm

Supercooled wrote: ↑
Aug 17th, 2019 9:47 am
Someone call/email them to threaten to expose them. I'm sure they will gladly compensate the battery no problem. Think Tom Cruises character in Collateral where he pretends to be a high-power lawyer and threatens the cab operator.

In facebook, someone shared experience in the past with this company.

+1

Aug 17th, 2019 7:28 pm

pallidman: Jr. Member; Mar 12, 2018; 171 posts; 160 upvotes

Aug 17th, 2019 7:28 pm

adamtheman wrote: ↑
Aug 15th, 2019 4:39 pm
Especially since ODSP covers the cost. It sounds like the ultimate scam. There's so many ways you could run this. For instance, wheelchair arrives at the vendor... he takes the two good batteries out of it and puts them aside, and puts two old cheap dead batteries in the wheelchair instead. Those fail, so the buyer comes back to him and he now sells them the two good batteries for an extra $900. But since ODSP pays for them "no one gets hurt"... oh except the tax payers of Ontario.

Sounds very likely. My experiences with some wheelchair dealers make me think of sleazy used car salesmen.

Which Motion Specialities is this?

+1

Aug 18th, 2019 8:04 am

NF2Paralized [OP]: Newbie; Aug 14, 2019; 4 posts; 7 upvotes

Aug 18th, 2019 8:04 am

pallidman wrote: ↑
Aug 17th, 2019 7:28 pm
Sounds very likely. My experiences with some wheelchair dealers make me think of sleazy used car salesmen.

Which Motion Specialities is this?

Address of this store in image below:

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