Computers & Electronics

Recommendations for a new Router

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 7th, 2017 6:57 pm
Penalty Box
Oct 27, 2007
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I have the same router as the OP mentioned except the 'L.' Is there a router that is decent that is supported by third party firmware, particularly Tomato that doesn't break the bank? 'Meaning not over $150?

I suppose these utilize Broadcom firmware? Asus or some Linksys routers?
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Webslinger wrote:
Jul 28th, 2017 11:26 am
I use voip.ms, Anveo, Callcentric, Freephoneline, etc. I never have issues unless the service itself is faulty because I know what's required. Having access to less settings, in particular, UDP timeouts, when using SIP services is not desirable. And it's not just me saying it; people who work in the industry including Pianoguy, prefer Tomato, for example, for a reason:

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/need-new ... #p21185683


Pianoguy is probably the biggest VoIP guru on RFD.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/network- ... #p19631955






Does the bolded part sound familiar? Because if it doesn't, it should by now.





https://forums.grandstream.com/forums/i ... 5#msg91225
http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?th ... oip.33471/ (background info)
etc.

Pianoguy works/has worked in the industry. If he's telling people what features to look for in consumer router firmware for SIP services, it's time to pay attention. He likes Tomato (I don't use it). I use Asuswrt-Merlin (https://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/about), which also has access to both UDP timeout settings mentioned here. Pianoguy doesn't have problems. I don't either.
Thanks Webslinger, do you happen to know where these timeout values would be located on a Mikrotik router? I searched through the menus and also googles but unsuccessfully so far...
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SickBeast wrote:
Jul 28th, 2017 4:39 pm
I owned that router and it's *not* recommended, even for the ~$60 I paid for it refurbished at Canada Computers. Unstable firmware and poor range. If you know how to hack it to run Merlin then it's pretty good, but it's not a simple hack and there is a high likelihood that you will brick the router while doing it. Plus IIRC there were issues getting the 5ghz band up and running with Merlin, it required a hack on top of a hack so to speak.
Hmmmm. Mine was new from BB absolutely zero problems with mine. Excellent range on both 2.4 and 5 GHZ bands. No problems configuring the router with the firmware it came with on both bands but I did do the firmware upgrade right away. Both bands transfer at the same speed. No complaints here and totally happy with it. Only thing I wish it had was more leds instead of a single white Lynksys logo that lights up, but not a big deal.
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jackrabbit000 wrote:
Jul 28th, 2017 9:44 pm
Hmmmm. Mine was new from BB absolutely zero problems with mine. Excellent range on both 2.4 and 5 GHZ bands. No problems configuring the router with the firmware it came with on both bands but I did do the firmware upgrade right away. Both bands transfer at the same speed. No complaints here and totally happy with it. Only thing I wish it had was more leds instead of a single white Lynksys logo that lights up, but not a big deal.
Well maybe they updated the firmware on it. That was the issue before, the firmware was absolutely brutal, the worst I have seen actually. I'm glad it's working out for you!
I am a Public Mobile customer.
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wally_walrus wrote:
Jul 28th, 2017 9:15 pm
Thanks Webslinger, do you happen to know where these timeout values would be located on a Mikrotik router? I searched through the menus and also googles but unsuccessfully so far...
Well, maybe I could spend a little time looking.
I've never used your router.

But if I had to guess . . .

From https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... n_tracking

"udp-timeout (time; Default: 10s) Specifies the timeout for udp connections that has seen packets in one direction
udp-stream-timeout (time; Default: 3m) Specifies the timeout of udp connections that has seen packets in both directions"


One direction, typically means, unreplied. Both directions, typically means, assured.

So, you'd use Winbox, I guess: https://download2.mikrotik.com/routeros ... winbox.exe.

And then . . .


a) ip firewall connection tracking set udp-timeout=15s

That would change UDP unreplied timeout to 15 seconds from the default of 10s.

b) ip firewall connection tracking set udp-stream-timeout=117s

That would change UDP assured timeout to 117 seconds from the default of 3 minutes.

But, again, I'm just guessing.

You could probably try asking on their forums: https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewforum.php?f=13.

Beyond that, sorry, I can't possibly be expected to know how to change UDP Unreplied and UDP Assured timeout settings with every router's firmware, and it's certainly not possible to change those two settings with every router.
Last edited by Guest1284983 on Jul 28th, 2017 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please do not PM me for tech support. I help out on the forums when I can. Thank you.
OBi200/202 Freephonline PDF guide (version 1.60) can be found here. OBi200 info can be found here. For OBi202 info, click here.
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Mar 8, 2008
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Nighthawk r7000 or r8000.... Terrific routers for all applications, no compromise.
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lead wrote:
Jul 28th, 2017 6:19 pm
this should be a pretty good one with a xrmwrt port becomes available. 128 rom /256 ram
https://www.banggood.com/Xiaomi-Mi-Rout ... ?rmmds=buy
I have the 860l that uses the same soc , same as the ubiquiti edge x but comes with wifi ac. Its a fantastic router with xrmwrt firmware for mediatek routers. All entware etc options you could want, proprietary license drivers for real hardware accel and offers 2 threads per core. Low power and doesn't get hot.

Depends how quickly it gets a port. Its not yet released but I preordered one to replace the non gigabit xiaomi ac router with padavan I use as a Ap. Which was great, but the usb 3 offers dam fast speeds with padavan in either ntfs or ext3/4 and thats so practical to have for trouble shooting drives in windows. Plus you can force it to run as usb 2 only which stops the known 2.4ghz wifi interferece that usb 3.0 causes on all routers. .So good I dropped using the my old dir-320l x2 for just cheap 4bay usb externals.

Heck if you could find a dlink 860l B1 router instead I say go for it over the xiaomi. Its virtually unbrickable when flashing different firmwares. But since it got a padavan port and is highly recommended at lede. They are almost impossible to find anymore. The ones you can find, start usually at 100 bucks on ebay. I paid 40 usd plus shipping off ebay. old sale
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-D-Link-DIR- ... Swe7BWvoq-
what's the best place to get the new xiaomi router? I've got fake xiaomi stuff from banggood in the past. does look like a good router though with custom firmware. my current router radio is dying so will need a good replacement soon...
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markj wrote:
Jul 29th, 2017 12:40 pm
what's the best place to get the new xiaomi router? I've got fake xiaomi stuff from banggood in the past. does look like a good router though with custom firmware. my current router radio is dying so will need a good replacement soon...
That's genuine.too early to fake it's not available to purchase till 31st. The other xiaomi routers have never been cloned. The reason is usually due to the bootloader's and eeprom.

The bad news. The mrsp by xiaomi is 36 usd. The rep of the previous products has these resellers marking it up. The debut preorder was 87 bucks for the first 100 products in black vs white. Scumbags.

I chose the banggood since last order from them for something was only 3 weeks for me. We are familiar with the slow shipments thread from China.
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Webslinger wrote:
Jul 28th, 2017 10:15 pm
Well, maybe I could spend a little time looking.
I've never used your router.

But if I had to guess . . .

From https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... n_tracking

"udp-timeout (time; Default: 10s) Specifies the timeout for udp connections that has seen packets in one direction
udp-stream-timeout (time; Default: 3m) Specifies the timeout of udp connections that has seen packets in both directions"


One direction, typically means, unreplied. Both directions, typically means, assured.

So, you'd use Winbox, I guess: https://download2.mikrotik.com/routeros ... winbox.exe.

And then . . .


a) ip firewall connection tracking set udp-timeout=15s

That would change UDP unreplied timeout to 15 seconds from the default of 10s.

b) ip firewall connection tracking set udp-stream-timeout=117s

That would change UDP assured timeout to 117 seconds from the default of 3 seconds.

But, again, I'm just guessing.

You could probably try asking on their forums: https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewforum.php?f=13.

Beyond that, sorry, I can't possibly be expected to know how to change UDP Unreplied and UDP Assured timeout settings with every router's firmware, and it's certainly not possible to change those two settings with every router.
You da man :) Found them both in my Obi and router, and the defaults are:

UDP Unreplied Timeout - 10s
NAT Keep-alive Interval (X_KeepAliveExpires) - 15s
UDP Assured Timeout - 3m (not 3s as you indicated)
SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time (RegisterRetryInterval) - 30s

So technically the only one that does not satisfy Mango's equation is UDP Assured Timeout. Would you see any problem making this 20s instead of 117s (where is the 117 s coming from btw?)

Thus 10 < 15 <20 < 30


Many thanks!


PS: could you also please point out where Mango posted the above equation? I follow dslreports voip forum and read Mango's post, but probably missed this one
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wally_walrus wrote:
Jul 30th, 2017 12:10 am
UDP Assured Timeout - 3m (not 3s as you indicated)
I type/read/make mistakes when I'm tired, and my eyes kinda glaze over; I missed the "m" for an "s" while looking at
https://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:I ... n_tracking.

I'll edit my previous post.
Would you see any problem making this 20s instead of 117s (where is the 117 s coming from btw?)
The 117s is just an example to show how to change that setting. But the number is from my first post in this thread and is related to using Freephoneline, where the recommended
SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time is 120s. In terms of problems, it's possible some unrelated application or service may require a longer assured timeout.
20s may not be long enough for assured flags to be set (and tracked) properly. I would, personally, want that value to be 100 or higher. I always grew up with this understanding:
https://lists.netfilter.org/pipermail/n ... 43039.html (so you can see why your default assured timeout value is set to 180s).

If you experience problems, it's trivial to increase SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time in your ATA without hurting anything with
any SIP service (other than your ATA taking a bit longer to attempt to register again after a failure). In turn, you can then increase your assured UDP timeout.

This formula being used is to address a bug with some consumer routers (but by some, I mean . . . I've seen it occur in so many consumer routers that I don't even bother testing for bugs anymore. I just hope I can throw some form of Asuswrt-Merlin or Xwrt-Vortex on them, set the UDP timeouts, setup Bandwidth Monitor properly, and walk away.)

could you also please point out where Mango posted the above equation?
Honestly, this is the second time you're asking me to google stuff and search for needles in haystacks (the stuff you're asking me to look for isn't easy to find; it's a bit like doing work) . . .

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/78-voip ... ost1766842
Mango wrote: If you use the following rule, things should work properly:

Unreplied UDP Timeout < NAT Keep Alive Intvl < Assured UDP Timeout < Reg Retry Intvl.

Pianoguy, who is probably the biggest VoIP guru on RFD, also uses it here: network-settings-voip-phone-issues-1538703/#p19633015
Pianoguy wrote:The other problem was timeouts. When you register to VoIP.ms, your router "remembers" this connection for (as we discovered earlier) 120 seconds. That is why when you first plugged your cable in, you were able to receive calls for about two minutes. We set up keep-alive every 75 seconds so that the connection would remain active permanently. Satisfying the following equation will make things work properly:

UDP Unreplied Timeout (65) < Keep-alive Interval (75) < UDP Assured Timeout (120) < SIP Registration Failure Retry Wait Time (180)
wally_walrus wrote:I follow dslreports voip forum and read Mango's post, but probably missed this one
He posts all over the place and not just at dslreports. For a long while, he was also posting in Freephoneline's community forums.

I lurk on dslreports with a healthy dose of cynicism, but that's another conversation.
I believe this is the source: click http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23533808-
Mango wrote:I had a similar problem, except mine occurred when my ISP changed my external IP address. The issue did not occur for me upon reset of the router. My problem was more like the one described at »Line1 or 2 doesnt register at random times
hokie21 wrote: Recommended setting for “unreplied timeout” is 10 seconds. Recommended setting for “assured timeout” is 300 seconds. [...] The NAT keepalive or registration message interval should be greater than the Tomato UDP Unreplied Timeout value but less than the Tomato UDP Assured Timeout value.
Mango wrote:Almost immediately after I did this my phone and ATA registered and started working again. Thank you very much for posting this!

So while Mango may not be the first person to discover this formula, he has discussed it in a lot of different places.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26408309-
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23845553-
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/78-voip ... ost1795561
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28302513-
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23982146-
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/78-voip ... ost1298167
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27576551-
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28235334-
https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php ... 5#msg76725

Background info: click http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?th ... oip.33471/

click https://forums.grandstream.com/forums/i ... 5#msg91225

etc.

I feel these posts from Mango, in relation to this thread, are significant:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28275335-
Mango wrote:Your router absolutely matters. A router will make or break VoIP performance. For example, some routers have SIP ALG that can't be disabled and causes VoIP to fail. Others have inappropriate UDP timeout settings. Others have non-working "attack detection" (I'm looking at you, D-Link) which classifies normal internet traffic as attack traffic.

I would rather have a great router and a crap ATA, than the other way around. (Though as it happens I use an excellent router and an excellent ATA )
Mango wrote:I use an Asus RT-N16 with Tomato firmware. I like Tomato because it allows me to configure timeouts and inspect connections currently tracked by the router. So if my VoIP equipment ever doesn't register, or incoming calls don't arrive, now I can troubleshoot and find out exactly why.

The end result is now that things are configured properly, and my devices always automatically recover after a power or internet failure. I never need to manually power cycle or reboot anything and I'm quite happy with that.

So, some of the problems (amongst others . . . including corrupted NAT associations that develop between routers and ATAs) I've been addressing in this thread is where your ATA or SIP registration suddenly fail when a new IP address is leased by your modem--or if, after, a power failure, your ATA is up and running first before your router and modem are, which may, in turn, cause issues.
Last edited by Guest1284983 on Jul 30th, 2017 12:58 am, edited 28 times in total.
Please do not PM me for tech support. I help out on the forums when I can. Thank you.
OBi200/202 Freephonline PDF guide (version 1.60) can be found here. OBi200 info can be found here. For OBi202 info, click here.
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Btw, if anyone plans on using VLAN with NAT acceleration enabled on an Asus router with a SIP service, run away.
NAT acceleration needs to be disabled when using VLAN (at the time of this post): https://www.obitalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=12822.20.

I don't use VLAN, so I don't care.

In other words, this PPPoE setup without the Bell Hub will be nightmarish for you if NAT Acceleration is on when using SIP services: http://blog.ngpixel.com/post/1044497475 ... own-router.
Last edited by Guest1284983 on Jan 9th, 2019 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please do not PM me for tech support. I help out on the forums when I can. Thank you.
OBi200/202 Freephonline PDF guide (version 1.60) can be found here. OBi200 info can be found here. For OBi202 info, click here.
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SickBeast wrote:
Jul 28th, 2017 4:02 pm
OP I have this router from the Source and it's outstanding:

https://www.thesource.ca/en-ca/computer ... /108043728

It arrived in like new condition. It has great range and oustanding performance. I've been running it for almost a year now and I haven't had to reboot it once. It's been rock solid stable on the latest stock firmware. I'm running it on a Rogers gigabit connection and it's able to resolve the full gigabit speed. Highly recommended. Don't forget you can add a filler item and then apply the $25 email coupon at the Source. PSP discount also. I'm seeing $62.99 with the PSP discount. Free shipping to a store location.
Hi,
What HW revision is the router you got? Thanks!
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garce wrote:
Jul 30th, 2017 8:40 pm
Hi,
What HW revision is the router you got? Thanks!
Mine says "HW B1". So I assume it's the "B1" revision. I hope that helps!
I am a Public Mobile customer.

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