recruiters lowballing rate

I've been told by recruiters that anything below $40/hr isn't worth the hassle of incorporating so, if I was you, I would be looking for another recruiter.

Do you feel better, post-rant?

C

I am still mad as hell.

picard12 wrote: ↑ I am still mad as hell.

Rant some more, then... Maybe that will help.

C

hey, the lower rate the recruiter gives you the more they pocket.

aubgray1 wrote: ↑ hey, the lower rate the recruiter gives you the more they pocket.

I remember when I was a kid (well, 18), I had this recruiting company paying me $11/hour. Then I asked around the company they placed me into, they were getting paid $18/hour. So the recruiter pocketed $7.
It was some intensive labour, where you can't even sit.

CollegeGraduate wrote: ↑ I remember when I was a kid (well, 18), I had this recruiting company paying me $11/hour. Then I asked around the company they placed me into, they were getting paid $18/hour. So the recruiter pocketed $7.
It was some intensive labour, where you can't even sit.

Capitalism.

In China, Chinese has good response for companies don't pay fairly : off with their heads.

It's not the recruiters fault, blame the candidates that are willing to devalue themselves. 2 stories here..

1) When I was in university, during the summer I was working through an agency doing temp jobs. A recruiter from the agency called and said they had this data entry job paying $12 bucks an hour. I declined. About 2 days later another recruiter from the same agency offered $14 an hour for the exact same job in the exact same company. They just moved up the dollars until they found people interested.

2) When I was in between jobs (professional). I was looking into doing some contract work, A recruiter from a large recruiting company asked me if I was interested in a finance manager position with a rate of $55/hour. I went to the interview just to get additional interview experience under my belt (pay was too low for me). The person I was interviewing with let it slip that they were paying almost $90/hour to the recruiting company for that position.

We live in a capitalist society, the recruiter who works on the contract/hourly side of the business generates their revenue from the spread between what they get from their client and what they pay you. So they will start low and see if there are any qualified candidates, then they will move up the pay scale until they find a qualified person. So if a professional is willing to devalue themselves just to get employment, why wouldn't the recruiter take advantage of that. It's a really big problem in large cities where you have tons of supply but only a finite demand.

Recruiters on the salary side of things are a little bit different, in that the salary offered is the salary being offered by the company because they get either a flat fee or a percentage of the first year salary. So in this case their goals are SOMEWHAT aligned with yours. The only issue is that they want to close people and move on as fast as possible. So take whatever they say about the company and future prospects for this position with a grain of salt. They just want to get someone in their and get paid. Not all recruiters are like that, I know the big firms such as Korn Ferry have a reputation to maintain so they may actually be trying to find the best fit. Also they care about repeat business, they just don't want to stick any candidate in front of their client.

The recruiter that contacted me was with another large recruiting firm, and through him I negotiated a higher Title, 10k bump in USD salary, and an extra week's vacation.

So some recruiters are good, others are bad. Just like anyone in any job.

recruiters often try to deceive new IT grads or other people. They are like used car salesmen

picard12 wrote: ↑ recruiters often try to deceive new IT grads or other people. They are like used car salesmen

Some recruiters are. You need to ditch those ones, and find good ones. Talk to other people that do contract work. Find some you like and trust, and work with them. I've got about a half dozen here in the Edmonton area, and I'll hit up when I'm needing a new contract. I would estimate they probably cover about 95% + of the contracts available here in town. There might be small contracts around that don't get shopped fully, I guess. But they know the rate I'm willing to work for, I know what my market value is, and they don't bother throwing me scraps.

C

As an incorporated contractor, you should be better prepared to discuss rates with the recruiters.
You are supposedly an expert in your field, so you should how what someone with your background is worth.
When talking to recruiters stick to that range of rates that you are worth.
If they can't meet your worth, go elsewhere. There are plenty of other contract opportunities.
Most important part of being a contractor is knowing what you are worth.

commie wrote: ↑ As an incorporated contractor, you should be better prepared to discuss rates with the recruiters.
You are supposedly an expert in your field, so you should how what someone with your background is worth.
When talking to recruiters stick to that range of rates that you are worth.
If they can't meet your worth, go elsewhere. There are plenty of other contract opportunities.
Most important part of being a contractor is knowing what you are worth.

Realistically, it's a three way dynamic between the contractor, the recruiter, and the client. Yes, being an provider of the knowledge/skill you should have an ideal of what that skill is worth but the same goes with the recruiter as they want to present the best 'option' to the client so that they will be happy and come back for repeat business. It makes some sense that the recruiter will try to maximize their profit (ie find the best person to fill the position at the lowest cost) but it makes no sense to put in such a low offer that qualified contractors won't take it as there are other recruiters out there who are probably trying to source contractors for the exact same position.

The last party to the mix is the client. Some clients are realistic about how much they need to pay to get someone qualified to do the work while others are not. It may be for this particular contract, the client is completely out to lunch on the pay scale...

craftsman wrote: ↑ Realistically, it's a three way dynamic between the contractor, the recruiter, and the client. Yes, being an provider of the knowledge/skill you should have an ideal of what that skill is worth but the same goes with the recruiter as they want to present the best 'option' to the client so that they will be happy and come back for repeat business. It makes some sense that the recruiter will try to maximize their profit (ie find the best person to fill the position at the lowest cost) but it makes no sense to put in such a low offer that qualified contractors won't take it as there are other recruiters out there who are probably trying to source contractors for the exact same position.

The last party to the mix is the client. Some clients are realistic about how much they need to pay to get someone qualified to do the work while others are not. It may be for this particular contract, the client is completely out to lunch on the pay scale...

Thats all fine and dandy...for what the client pay and what the contractor get doesn't really matter.

The client will have an idea of what the going rate for their roles are, and most often will pay that. However, that is to the recruiters or the consulting firms.
What the contractor will get is based on what they can negotiate with the recruiter/consulting firm.
So I guess you can say its a 2 two way street.
The client has no relationship really with the contractor.

What is also sad/bad is there are bunch of contractors, especially in the IT field that will take any rates to get their foot in the North American doors.
I was at a project recently, and my team was charging the client $175 a hour, and my contractors were getting between 110-125 a hour. There was another firm that came in recently and offered the client to do the same work for $100 a hour. You can bet, their consultants/contractors are not getting 110-125 a hour.
Luckily the industry is very small, and the client knows who the firm's consultant/contractors are, and didn't go for the lowest cost option.
It would be a sad day when the majority of the contractors in that industry are willing to accept a rate less than $100.
luckily the quality of the contractors that are willing to go lower than the market rate and the ones that are at or above market rate is significant and noticeable.
Like everything in life, you get what you pay for. You buy cheap you get cheap.

commie wrote: ↑ What is also sad/bad is there are bunch of contractors, especially in the IT field that will take any rates to get their foot in the North American doors.
I was at a project recently, and my team was charging the client $175 a hour, and my contractors were getting between 110-125 a hour. There was another firm that came in recently and offered the client to do the same work for $100 a hour. You can bet, their consultants/contractors are not getting 110-125 a hour.
Luckily the industry is very small, and the client knows who the firm's consultant/contractors are, and didn't go for the lowest cost option.
It would be a sad day when the majority of the contractors in that industry are willing to accept a rate less than $100.
luckily the quality of the contractors that are willing to go lower than the market rate and the ones that are at or above market rate is significant and noticeable.
Like everything in life, you get what you pay for. You buy cheap you get cheap.

Unfortunately, there are always people who try to undercut (on all sides - contractor, client, recruiter).

I was interested in a position with one of large telecom wireless providers so I approached the recruiter. The recruiter responded that I was qualified but didn't think I would be happy with the position as the client only authorized to pay up to 50% of the rate I was bidding on for another job so we weren't even in the same planet when it comes to rate.

IT is a diverse field so it's harder to say what the average rate should be without getting into the details of responsibilities. After all, a front line desktop support person as well as their manager are both considered IT and are often positioned contracted out for.

picard12 wrote: ↑ I am still mad as hell.

1) What company was the recruiter from?

Perhaps you should be more selective in the people you work with.

I wonder if recruiters lowballing rate for accountants with CMA or CA designation

the problem is that the gov't bring in massive number of east Indians into Canada. They all take low rate to get work visa here.
this drives down the rate for the whole industry. IT field has become Mcdonald pay rate.

picard12 wrote: ↑ I wonder if recruiters lowballing rate for accountants with CMA or CA designation

Yes they do.