Investing

The RFD - Cryptocurrency Mega Thread

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Nov 6, 2015
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Something broke on the crypto.com exchange...

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Pretty sure they will cancel the trades but I sold 1 ETH for 500K CROFace With Tears Of Joy

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Last edited by margincall on Sep 20th, 2020 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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margincall wrote: Something broke on the crypto.com exchange...

Capture2.PNG

Pretty sure they will cancel the trades but I sold 1 ETH for 500K CROFace With Tears Of Joy

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Too bad for you I guess Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Cold Sweat

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rodbarc wrote: Also, crypto.com just bumped their Icy Visa card with 5% cashback on every purchase, need 100,000 cro staked, so I’m using Defi Swap to earn 60% interest in Cro while providing liquidity to cro, eth and usdc.

Rod
I'm seeing 4% cashback for the icy through app, what am I missing? Is the 60% including the returns on the card (icy is 18%)?

Thx
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TheGoodDealer wrote: I'm seeing 4% cashback for the icy through app, what am I missing? Is the 60% including the returns on the card (icy is 18%)?

Thx
The app is still showing the old date because it goes effective on Oct 1st only. The website shows the new cashback rates (I sent a suggestion to their team to update the rates on the app to avoid confusion like this). That’s the cashback on their Visa card. On top of that it pays 16% to 18% interest in what you have staked depending on the card that you chose.

The 60% interest (which is now 55%) has nothing to do with the card, that’s on their DeFi website, to reward those that provide liquidity to the swap pairs on ETH network.


Rod
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llpresident wrote: What is the word on Wealthsimple Crypto?
It only gives market exposure. You don’t hold any crypto. You can’t deposit or withdraw coins.


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rodbarc wrote: It only gives market exposure. You don’t hold any crypto. You can’t deposit or withdraw coins.


Rod
That could be good since I have no clue what is being talked about on this thread. Honestly it sounds like you guys are playing a game of Minecraft, lol. Why are there so many different crypto’s and concepts? Isn’t the whole appeal of crypto that it can function as a Universal currency that’s not beholden to the idiocy of government management and backing? How can that be achieved if there are 500 different crypto currencies?
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llpresident wrote: That could be good since I have no clue what is being talked about on this thread. Honestly it sounds like you guys are playing a game of Minecraft, lol. Why are there so many different crypto’s and concepts? Isn’t the whole appeal of crypto that it can function as a Universal currency that’s not beholden to the idiocy of government management and backing? How can that be achieved if there are 500 different crypto currencies?
No, crypto, which is interchangeably spoken as blockchain, is the technology. You can have many applications for these. Most of the stuff discussed on the thread recently by me is on a single network, which Ethereum network. These are all financial applications on ETH network. Sure, there is bitcoin too, and these are 2 money applications using blockchain. There’s no single universal currency. There are different arguments to why BTC is money, why ETH is money and why other coins are money. All of them are permissionless, censorship resistant and borderless, and therefore not subject to government management and backing. Some of them are fiat pegged, which in today’s world allow you to have a safer investment from a capital protection perspective, while fully on your custody. Others are more volatile, and are not pegged to fiat or any central institution. They are all valid and have different use cases.

So on ETH network, a concept that has growing a lot is Descentralized Finance, which allows anyone to participate in complex financial products that until then were only offered by some financial institutions, where they keep most of the profits and a tiny portion is passed to users. So unless you’re a shareholder or an insider, you don’t participate on these profits. Now, because you can farm the gains of these products yourself, you have the full profit directly to you. On your wallet. Which no one can confiscate or control. That can be left in digital currencies pegged to fiat or converted to other currencies like Bitcoin.

The recent discussion on the thread is that your crypto no longer needs to be a pet rock, where you only make a gain by holding for years. You can now participate on financial products (that exists today in traditional finance) and make gains through them, without trading (which is a lot harder to do, no different than trading stocks), because many of these products allow you to generate interest on your investment.


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These Defi programs are definitely taking a page out of the book from Casinos for marketing purposes. For example, Yam, Sushi, Cream, Pickle tokens but in the back there is some serious money being dump into these programs, 10s to 100s of millions. I only started looking into this a month ago and my impression so far has been:

1. There are two groups of people in Defi -
- people who are in it to advance Defi and create products that serve the same purpose as banks do for us (lending, exchanges, safe storage of money).
- people who create products for speculators and the "yield farmers" who make money off the speculators in a "Ponzi scheme" like way as its been call by some notable people.

2. In the later category, the yield (as I've been watching over the month) dissipates quickly. You may hear 100%+ apy yields, but its likely to drop quickly. Reason for this that I've notice is that there is little fundamental support for the token's value, which the yield is paid with and the token are being inflated immensely. Literally printing money. There are certain program that are trying to give there tokens fundamental values (see, Curve), but its yet to be seen how it will play out in the long run.

3. With 2, in mind, this is not to say people aren't making a ton of money on the schemes but its better to have more money invested in this so that you can quickly collect on the dissipating interest to cover the transaction fees and impermanent loss. Otherwise you'll need to hold on for longer and expect apy to dissipate.

4. On the Cefi side, with 8 to 12% interest on stable coin (CADT, USDT, etc) you'll need to keep in mind certain thing that will eat away on this interest: there is a 1% fee to return convert the crypto back to fiat in your bank account, there is risk that the stable fails, there is risk in the Cefi company fails you. If you are converting to USD stable coin, there is the spread to trade which I've seen at about 1% and there is USD/CAD currency risk. So after all this risk, is it still worth the extra interest?

This is my understanding anyways. Let me know if some things are wrong..
Last edited by deger on Sep 28th, 2020 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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deger wrote: These Defi programs are definitely taking a page out of the book from Casinos for marketing purposes. For example, Yam, Sushi, Cream, Pickle tokens but in the back there is some serious money being dump into these programs, 10s to 100s of millions. I only started looking into this a month ago and my impression so far has been:

1. There are two groups of people in Defi -
- people who are in it to advance Defi and create products that serve the same purpose as banks do for us (lending, exchanges, safe storage of money).
- people who create products for speculators and the "yield farmers" who make money off the speculators in a "Ponzi scheme" like way as its been call by some notable people.

2. In the later category, the yield (as I've been watching over the month) dissipates quickly. You may hear 100%+ apy yields, but its likely to drop quickly. Reason for this that I've notice is that there is little fundamental support for the token's value, which the yield is paid with and the token are being inflated immensely. Literally printing money. There are certain program that are trying to give there tokens fundamental values (see, Curve), but its yet to be seen how it will play out in the long run.

3. With 2, in mind, this is not to say people aren't making a ton of money on the schemes but its better to have more money invested in this so that you can quickly collect on the dissipating interest to cover the transaction fees and impermanent loss. Otherwise you'll need to hold on for longer and expect apy to dissipate.

4. On the Cefi side, with 8 to 12% interest on stable coin (CADT, USDT, etc) you'll need to keep in mind certain thing that will eat away on this interest: interest will be tax as earned income, not as the capital gains or dividends like stocks, there is a 1% fee to return convert the crypto back to fiat in your bank account, there is risk that the stable fails, there is risk in the Cefi company fails you. So after all this risk, is it still worth the extra interest?

This is my understanding anyways. Let me know if some things are wrong..
Agreed, and on the high yield speculation category above, not every product is the same, some are pump and dump, some have enhancements with the high yield. I tend to pay attention to the mechanism on how the high yield is generated. For pickle, they solve a legit problem by trying to stabilize peg of stablecoins. There’s little risk with them depending how you farm it. My approach is to deposit on curve susd pool (stablecoins only, no capital fluctuations), and then stake the crv LP tokens from curve into their pickle jar, which is the equivalent of yearn vaults. So the crv, which was free, is now staked on pickle, which uses automation to sell crv to buy pickle, and keep repeating this process to concentrate the crv increasing rewards into their own rewards - but pickle is way better on gas efficiency to claim. So interest rate net of fees is higher. Plus, because the jar has lots of funds (from everyone), it gets to boost the max crv rewards from curve, boosting interest further. This is an example of how we can deposit stablecoins only and make 27% interest on it, with very little gas to claim that income. Cream is a fork of compound, but they have been pioneering a few things. They got a dynamic AMM going, which eliminates slippage adding a single side of assets in a pool (a problem that no one else was able to solve so far) and they were the first able to swap vaults and strategies, reducing a lot the gas required to onboard a strategy or vault. These are decent products driven by a strong community to keep enhancing established products that can’t change quickly given the level of maturity that got locked on them. So as long as you don’t buy their token, it’s a much better setup to keep exposure to the well known coins that you want to own and use that opportunity to farm these tokens, while locking profits periodically. What changes is the amount of free tokens and the price of those free tokens, without compromising your stablecoins or established coins exposure.

The key takeaways are understanding impermanent loss concept for pools and farming, not buying, the tokens. Also, learn the basic of Solidity so you can identify if a project can rugpull / scam, tons of knowledge items in the net on how to perform an audit yourself. By doing these actions combined, one can participate and evaluate different projects that intend to solve different issues while managing risk.


Rod
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Crypto.com account is operational again...unfortunately there was no sign of my 500K CROFace With Tears Of Joy
Added ETH and CRO last night and also made my first foray into DeFi :)
MTA is almost back to all time lows so I figured it's worth a speculative bet... @rodbarc a penny for your thoughts please
Next on my list is sUSD which I'll probably get into over the weekend

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margincall wrote: Crypto.com account is operational again...unfortunately there was no sign of my 500K CROFace With Tears Of Joy
Added ETH and CRO last night and also made my first foray into DeFi :)
MTA is almost back to all time lows so I figured it's worth a speculative bet... @rodbarc a penny for your thoughts please
Next on my list is sUSD which I'll probably get into over the weekend

Capture.PNG
I don't like MTA, I found their launch very disorganized, and competition has been delivering quicker and with higher quality than them. SAVE is a decent product as a one-stop shop to earn high interest, but it ends there. I don't like EARN because it directs rewards to MTA, and I see no value in MTA. High emissions put pressure on price, and the lack of exchanges with musd makes it a niche product for their environment only. Also, there better options out there that gives higher interest on stablecoins. Lastly, and this applies to any project you choose to invest on, you need to keep up with the community. You need to follow what happens, be at par with their development and innovation, be in sync with governance proposals, because that's how a project grows or tanks. Yield farm is meant to leave there accruing interest, so you want to ensure that liquidity, growth and preferably innovation continues to be driven to sustain these numbers.

Now, susd is great and Synthetix offer a ton of options to leverage their products for a decent interest on both stable and regular coins. I'm long SNX, so my setup is to stake my SNX (30% interest on it) and mint susd, which then goes to susd curve pool (if you don't like borrowing to invest, then don't mint susd with snx, simply deposit stablecoins in curve's susd pool). From there, I stake CRV into Pickle, for 94% interest on stablecoin alone (2% interest on the curve pool itself, plus 11% on pscrv plus 81% staked in pscrv pool), which is then either sold to fiat or to yusd (yycrv), which works as my main savings account. That's one of my setups. Other setups for stablecoins include Curve's compound and 3pool pools boosted to the max (with vecrv), for 41% and 53% interest respectively in stablecoins only. And vecrv locked for additional 174% interest (based on Cruve's fees passed to vote holders), which should start by end of this month. CRV has a huge emission, so I like Pickle solution boost that to their token, but I don't hold any governance token besides YFI (which by the way has a new yearn vault strategy in place now, and should grow a bit from here).



Rod
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deger wrote: And immediately pickle is copied by another: https://www.stabilize.finance/
This crazy world where there are no patents and everything is open source.

This is another interesting stable coin project that gives yield without staking or locking the coin: https://ousd.com/
Another vault project: https://set-beta.tokensets.com/portfolio/usdapy
I like pickle, they are unique with the innovation to stabilize peg and their jar is a solid piece of work to convert CRV into constant profits. It's easy to fork (copy / paste), but every smart contract needs to be evaluated carefully to identify scam clues (no timelocks, ability to draw funds, functions to external owned accounts (user) instead of a smart contract, etc). Then you have the community, which you can't copy. My setup is to stick with a few good ones and keep adding on those.

Tokensets has been around for a while, and vaults is one of their latest innovations, as well as their defi index investing. Good setup for retail that doesn't want to get into the weeds, but expensive fees. You're still better farming known tokens or stablecoins yourself, and direct profits to what you want to hold long term.


Rod
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