Investing

The RFD - Cryptocurrency Mega Thread

Deal Addict
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May 28, 2006
1049 posts
146 upvotes
Toronto
Happy Birthday, Bitcoin. 12 years in and ~5% of gold's market cap. We're still so early.

Prediction: We'll see Bitcoin surpass gold's market cap (~$10 trillion) between 2021-2025.
Heatware/HoFo upon request
Deal Fanatic
May 22, 2003
9325 posts
6386 upvotes
Vancouver
Ugh, shakepay went down just as I was in the middle of a transaction, still down 6 hours later. Signed up for Newton account and failed the auto picture verification...
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Sep 1, 2013
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rodbarc wrote: Interest is generated by borrowing and lending. Like the banks do today. Credit card alone allows banks to earn an interest of 20%. Other financial products yield much more. Nobody needs to lose for another to win.
- If you are not paying off your credit card balance in full every month, I would consider you to be a loser because: 1) you are too disorganized to pay off the balance before the deadline, or 2) you have managed your personal finances so poorly that you need to borrow money at exorbitant rates.

- Just because interest rates are 20% does not mean that banks are earning 20% interest. They earn rather less because of defaults and expenses inherent in the credit card business.

- What financial products do banks have which yield them much more than 20% interest?
Last edited by CheapScotch on Jan 3rd, 2021 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Expert
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Apr 21, 2004
58648 posts
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CheapScotch wrote: - If you are not paying off your credit card balance in full every month, I would consider you to be a loser because: 1) you are too disorganized to pay off the balance before the deadline, or 2) you have managed your personal finances so poorly that you need to borrow money at exorbitant rates.

- Just because interest rates are 20% does not mean that banks are earning 20% interest. They earn rather less because of defaults and expenses inherent in the credit card business.

- What financial products do bank have which yield them much more than 20% interest?
It depends, I had borrowed for one month at 23% per annum and made much more over that time frame. Of course it is not without risks but it was a very small portion of my portfolio and in my trading account where I can offset the interest cost. :)

What matters more is your household income. Someone borrowing $20k and making $150k after tax is not stupid but someone borrowing $50k making $30k probably is. It's just a payday advance. Can surely backfire but income will pay down that high interest debt in no time.

I sold MARA $12 calls expiring in two weeks right after I bought 1200 shares for around 20% premium. IV was 240% then.

Good thing I closed the positions locking in 41c profit as BTC has gone up 20% over the weekend. And I know MARA did hit 30-40c earlier this year but hit a high of $14-15 a few weeks ago. I had it on my watchlist since it first dropped to $3 USD.

i'm not really convinced about the value of bitcoin but as long as many do, there is some money to be made in the meantime though I'm not betting the farm on it.
Deal Fanatic
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Sep 1, 2013
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TheGoodDealer wrote: So who's been at the expense of the recent BTC run up? What's it up, 400% from a year ago? Imagine if someone had listened to you years back calling BTC a scam and it being only for suckers. By your logic stocks and anything other than fiat is a scam. What value do stocks bring? There's a company behind them, but what's their worth? People invest based on how the company is doing, are they profitable, etc. and they buy a slice of it. In other words people determine the value, and year after year we see people determining the value of BTC, and the trend is up.
All assets experiencing economic bubbles go through a "run up" phase driven by exuberance. People who bought the asset before the run up and sold it at or near the peak profit at the expense of the people they sold the asset to and were holding the asset after the bubble burst.

Your comparison of Crypto to stocks is nonsense. A stock is a share of ownership of a corporation which produces goods/services that people want/need. A well diversified portfolio of stocks will be profitable to the investor in the long run because the corporation, on the whole will continue to provide these goods/services. Crypto, on the on the hand, is just a bunch of numbers.
Banned
Apr 5, 2013
5810 posts
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keenland
CheapScotch wrote: All assets experiencing economic bubbles go through a "run up" phase driven by exuberance. People who bought the asset before the run up and sold it at or near the peak profit at the expense of the people they sold the asset to and were holding the asset after the bubble burst.

Your comparison of Crypto to stocks is nonsense. A stock is a share of ownership of a corporation which produces goods/services that people want/need. A well diversified portfolio of stocks will be profitable to the investor in the long run because the corporation, on the whole will continue to provide these goods/services. Crypto, on the on the hand, is just a bunch of numbers.
this is like an argument like marijauana use (vs drinking)...its a simpletons argument but still valid imo

old school thinking vs new enlightened thinking....you dont like bitcoin...i get it...but 650 bil dollars are arguing against you....just like the economics of the stock market and RE dont make sense atm based on everything I learned in my life...including covid

why argue?..dont like it? no prob..you can be ready with the "I told you so"...you can also go argue the merits of a million dollar semi in Whitby too...but its happening..no different that someone investing in BTC...will all crash? IDK but one thing for sure, when it all crashes, its will all crash the same and the real winners will be gold and cash horders...but that only works if there is a crash (raise in interest rates)..otherwise might as well go for a ride...of the money machine keeps going..the 1000 or even 10000 bill may be re introduced in the future ala third world countrys..then what will an "electronic" money be worth on the open world market?...better to have a bit i the game just in case, then be the guy hiding in the mountains for the rest of his life without any
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Dec 14, 2010
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CheapScotch wrote: All assets experiencing economic bubbles go through a "run up" phase driven by exuberance. People who bought the asset before the run up and sold it at or near the peak profit at the expense of the people they sold the asset to and were holding the asset after the bubble burst.

Your comparison of Crypto to stocks is nonsense. A stock is a share of ownership of a corporation which produces goods/services that people want/need. A well diversified portfolio of stocks will be profitable to the investor in the long run because the corporation, on the whole will continue to provide these goods/services. Crypto, on the on the hand, is just a bunch of numbers.
Watch the 12-year bubble continue to grow. Forever. You will indirectly own some bitcoin too, sooner than you think, because more corporations will be putting their treasury cash in this store of value.


Rod
Last edited by rodbarc on Jan 3rd, 2021 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Deal Fanatic
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Dec 14, 2010
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CheapScotch wrote: - If you are not paying off your credit card balance in full every month, I would consider you to be a loser because: 1) you are too disorganized to pay off the balance before the deadline, or 2) you have managed your personal finances so poorly that you need to borrow money at exorbitant rates.

- Just because interest rates are 20% does not mean that banks are earning 20% interest. They earn rather less because of defaults and expenses inherent in the credit card business.

- What financial products do banks have which yield them much more than 20% interest?
Interest in DeFi is generated by borrowing and lending, and that’s calculated by demand and known upfront. How is it a scam or predatory?

If I provide liquidity to a descentralized exchange, I get a portion of the fees as a reward for leaving my funds there. Buyers know the fee they will pay to use that instead of a centralized exchange. How is it a scam or predatory?

If I provide liquidity and choose to have a portion of these funds to be used for insurance claim, and earn incentive rewards (insurance premium) for doing so. Buyers know the insurance premium, which is given to sellers. How is it a scam or predatory?

These are just some examples on how to generate interest on your bitcoin or crypto. Same products that exist today traditional finance. The difference is that this is done by code, not banks. Also anyone can code and create these and new products too, smart contracts are written in Solidity and Vyper programming language.

Calling it scam or zero sum game shows how little you understand the space.


Rod
Build a comprehensive portfolio based on Investing and Trading strategies. Check out these threads and join the discussion:
Investing strategy based on dividend growth

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Aug 22, 2009
1788 posts
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I just started into crypto a few months ago.

I have a little bit of BTC.

Currently I purchase on Shakepay

Store in Block Fi

What’s the best storage option?

Block Fi earns me a little interest. But what’s the most secure option, a physical wallet?

If so, what’s the best option or most economical option?
Deal Addict
Feb 4, 2019
2687 posts
4430 upvotes
BC
Is there any service or exchange that allows Canadian residents with a US-domiciled bank account to deposit/withdraw USD fiat from/to that bank account and convert (near) 1:1 to/from USD stablecoin (e.g. USDC)?

Edit: BlockFi supports this via ACH with no fees which is ideal but it appears this is only for US residents.
Banned
Apr 5, 2013
5810 posts
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keenland
Easto wrote: I just started into crypto a few months ago.

I have a little bit of BTC.

Currently I purchase on Shakepay

Store in Block Fi

What’s the best storage option?

Block Fi earns me a little interest. But what’s the most secure option, a physical wallet?

If so, what’s the best option or most economical option?
I am interested in this too...my BTC and ETH has grown a lot and want to be a little safer..its all in shakepay...should I transfer to a wallet?...how much $ would you suggest (and which wallet) be a threashold to move coins?..not planning on withdrawing for a while...all new to me
Deal Addict
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Jul 6, 2010
3781 posts
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Edmonton
CheapScotch wrote:
All assets experiencing economic bubbles go through a "run up" phase driven by exuberance. People who bought the asset before the run up and sold it at or near the peak profit at the expense of the people they sold the asset to and were holding the asset after the bubble burst.

Your comparison of Crypto to stocks is nonsense. A stock is a share of ownership of a corporation which produces goods/services that people want/need. A well diversified portfolio of stocks will be profitable to the investor in the long run because the corporation, on the whole will continue to provide these goods/services. Crypto, on the on the hand, is just a bunch of numbers.
"just a bunch of numbers".

There is technology behind bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general that provides value to people, and because of that it will continue to be profitable. The fact the space continues to grow proves that the value is there and regardless what you think, people are choosing bitcoin and crypto. You're argument is that of a dinosaur who is unwilling to adapt or learn new ways.

I don't know why someone would spend so much time posting in a cryptocurrency thread when they seem to have no interest in it, even as it continues to prove them wrong year after year. You aren't saving anyone, if people want to learn and invest they will. Crypto is here to stay and the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.
Deal Addict
Jun 25, 2017
1420 posts
774 upvotes
Easto wrote: I just started into crypto a few months ago.

I have a little bit of BTC.

Currently I purchase on Shakepay

Store in Block Fi

What’s the best storage option?

Block Fi earns me a little interest. But what’s the most secure option, a physical wallet?

If so, what’s the best option or most economical option?
Get exodus
Deal Fanatic
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Sep 1, 2013
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TheGoodDealer wrote: There is technology behind bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general that provides value to people, and because of that it will continue to be profitable. The fact the space continues to grow proves that the value is there and regardless what you think, people are choosing bitcoin and crypto.
The technology behind bitcoin (blockchain) is interesting and may have some commercial value someday, but the only value BTC has to someone holding it is if they can find a greater fool to buy it off them for a higher price than they paid for it.
TheGoodDealer wrote: You're argument is that of a dinosaur who is unwilling to adapt or learn new ways.
I'll bet they called Buffet a dinosaur in the late 1990s because he did not invest in dot.com stocks.
Sr. Member
Dec 31, 2015
858 posts
234 upvotes
Any other coins that haven't mooned yet worth checking out? The fomo is getting to me and I hate myself for not owning BTC or ETH lol.
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Jul 6, 2010
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Edmonton
herculesmaxpower wrote: Any other coins that haven't mooned yet worth checking out? The fomo is getting to me and I hate myself for not owning BTC or ETH lol.
Personally I'm waiting for LTC to move up higher. It's up a good amount the last month, but still nowhere near its ATH. But DYOR and don't take my word for it. Also I'm watching uniswaps token.
Last edited by TheGoodDealer on Jan 3rd, 2021 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oct 12, 2008
2538 posts
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Markham
CheapScotch wrote: The technology behind bitcoin (blockchain) is interesting and may have some commercial value someday, but the only value BTC has to someone holding it is if they can find a greater fool to buy it off them for a higher price than they paid for it.



I'll bet they called Buffet a dinosaur in the late 1990s because he did not invest in dot.com stocks.
People who shit on crypto tech need to accept when they’re wrong. I guess you can call everyone a fool, including banks who have diversified into crypto tech as well, if it makes you feel better?
Deal Addict
Jul 11, 2007
1860 posts
890 upvotes
CheapScotch wrote: The technology behind bitcoin (blockchain) is interesting and may have some commercial value someday, but the only value BTC has to someone holding it is if they can find a greater fool to buy it off them for a higher price than they paid for it.



I'll bet they called Buffet a dinosaur in the late 1990s because he did not invest in dot.com stocks.
You're thinking of Bitcoin as a Dot.com when it's really more like the Internet.

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