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Going to the game tonight! Friend of mine scored some platinum tix in the 10th row, so it should be a good time

Time will tell for RaptorsNewcomers eager to prove themselves
By MIKE KOREEN, TORONTO SUN




On the eve of the Raptors' pre-season opener, Jalen Rose was asked how many of his teammates are proven NBA commodities and how many are question marks.

"Want me to take the time to count them? I don't know," Rose said before turning around to take a look at the players shooting free throws behind him.

"No comment."

With that, a pack of reporters enjoyed a good laugh. Rose speaks the truth and the truth might hurt this season.

The Raptors, with nine new players on their 19-player training-camp roster, begin their eight-game exhibition schedule tonight against the Utah Jazz at the Air Canada Centre. During the pre-season, Raptors coach Sam Mitchell wants to find out the answer to one key question.


"Can they play at 7 o'clock?" Mitchell said. "Is there anything more? I think that encompasses everything. If there's anything I need to learn other than who can play at 7 o'clock, please enlighten me. I would love to know. I know what they can do in practice. I want to see what they can do at 7 o'clock."

Along with determining a starting centre and picking a third point guard, the Raptors want to give plenty of court time to their young players.

First-round picks Charlie Villanueva and Joey Graham will make their debuts in front of Toronto fans tonight and the latter can't wait for the opportunity.

"I'm not going to be nervous, it's just like riding a bike," said the outgoing Graham, who seems to have a smile on his face all the time. "You just go out there and have fun. That's how I look at it.

"Everybody wants a gamer, that's what it is going to come down to. Who can put it together out there at 7 o'clock. I definitely think I'm one of those guys, I've done it day in and day out. We'll see (tonight)."

So far, Graham has made a good impression.

"I really like Joey Graham," Rose said.

"He's a strong kid, he's athletic, he can shoot the ball, he's young. He's a little older than the average rookie because we joke with him about playing six years in college (Graham played four years of college ball and took a year off to transfer to Oklahoma State from Central Florida).

"(But) I feel he's going to be a real good player."

So how do you guys think we will finish this season? I don't really expect any greatness from this team. We are def. on a youth movement. This year will probably be frustrating as hell for Raps fans, but hopefully the young guys get a solid year of experience under their belt, and we get a top draft pick for next year that will help us add some depth (hopefully at the SG position.)

babysham wrote:So how do you guys think we will finish this season? I don't really expect any greatness from this team. We are def. on a youth movement. This year will probably be frustrating as hell for Raps fans, but hopefully the young guys get a solid year of experience under their belt, and we get a top draft pick for next year that will help us add some depth (hopefully at the SG position.)

this is a rebuilding year.. but.. on the optimistic side.. the Raptors can sneak into the playoffs if everything falls in place.

the team has no problems scoring.. as evident last year.. we may have lost VC and Marshall and Rafer.. but CV3 and Graham and JAmes can fill the basket in their place.

What Toronto has done though.. it's improve greatly on the defensive end.
Mo Peterson, James, and Graham will greatly help the perimeter defense that was non-exsistant last year.. and you want CV3 and Bosh inside.

We also upgraded the PG position from Rafer/Palacio to JAmes/Calderon/3rd stringer... we finally have the 'true PG' we always needed in Calderon.. but we'll see how he adjusts to the NBA game.

The Raptors probably won't be letting in 100 pts game on average.. but I think is the Raptors give up about 92 a game.. and can score about 96 a game.. we'll be fine.

i predict probalby 38 wins... depending on how Captain Crunch plays.. maybe be able to squeeze a bit more wins out

also going to the game tonight, upper bowl seats tho. will try to take some pics from the game and post it up here for all to view tonight.

i'm guessing 36~40 wins. Yes i'm an optimist. Hopeful that if the young guys play unselfishly, no head cases and just straight team ball, we can do very well.

we'll have a slight preview tonight!

It will be nice to see a slightly less porous defense this year, actually. That has always been more frustating for me than offensive troubles. I hope they can find a way to score, but I'm not optimistic.

I see them around the same - anywhere from 33-40 wins, but I have a feeling it will be the lower end, with no playoffs for us this year.

deep wrote:It will be nice to see a slightly less porous defense this year, actually. That has always been more frustating for me than offensive troubles. I hope they can find a way to score, but I'm not optimistic.

I see them around the same - anywhere from 33-40 wins, but I have a feeling it will be the lower end, with no playoffs for us this year.

actually. the Raps don't have a problem scoring.. we did average 99.3ppg last year on the offensive end..

sure.. the shot selection leaves much to be desired.. but i think we are ok on the offensive end.

it kinda sucks that 2 years ago, we were a really great defensive team with Kevin O Neil.......but no offense.......then with Mitchell we had so much offense, but poor defense.......hopefully we'll find some middle ground sometime soon.

i dont see the raptors having problems with "ppl launching up shots" all the tiem.......only person i cans ee doing that would be Jalen.

Mo Pete isn't a selfish player. Occasionally he launches up 3's when he feels like he's on top of the world lol......but hey he hits some of those, so i dont mind too much.

If bosh got the ball 60% of the time he's on the floor, its not like i'd be upset. Its in trusting hands.

And I highly doubt CV3/Grahm are goign to hog the ball because their rookies and will get their arses beat if they do.

And Calderon is supposed to be a pass-first point guard, so im really excited about seeing him play. I rememebr the comments I kept hearing about him was that in euro ball, his assists are like 3 -4 per game or something, but i think when someone went to scout him, they said they tallied about like 8-9 assits a game....so im really looking forward to seeing how he plays out this season. and he's on my fantasy team so he better get a lot of minutes

SwiZz wrote: And Calderon is supposed to be a pass-first point guard, so im really excited about seeing him play. I rememebr the comments I kept hearing about him was that in euro ball, his assists are like 3 -4 per game or something, but i think when someone went to scout him, they said they tallied about like 8-9 assits a game....so im really looking forward to seeing how he plays out this season. and he's on my fantasy team so he better get a lot of minutes

yeah.. Europe has this weird system.. i think you only get an assist if you pass it to the scorer and he immediately goes to the bucket.. if he dribbles.. no assist.

Alvin Williams steps it up
By Mike Koreen, Toronto Sun




Alvin Williams took another step toward playing a real game yesterday.

The Raptors point guard, who missed all of last season after undergoing surgery on his right knee, took part in his first full scrimmage yesterday during practice.

"(Monday), I practised two hours, which was the longest I've practised, and I came out (yesterday) and scrimmaged and it felt pretty good," Williams said.

Williams will not play in the Raptors' pre-season opener tonight against the Utah Jazz at the Air Canada Centre.

When asked if he has a target date for a game, Williams said, "As soon as possible. I haven't really gone over the schedules with the coaches, the trainers and the doctors. Right now, my body feels like I can go out there and play. I've just got to get into condition. My conditioning is not that good."


When he does return, Williams might have to make a few adjustments to his game.

"Right from the beginning, I won't be jetting down the court," he said. "I've just got to guard people a little differently.

"Sometimes I may have to give up something in order to compensate for the lack of (recent playing time)."

This is good news. Alvin Williams is one of my all-time favourite Raptors. The guy gives it his all every game. With his experience, hustle, and determination, he would be a great asset to the team, and a great character for the younger guys to look up to.

rdtx2002 wrote:this is a rebuilding year.. but.. on the optimistic side.. the Raptors can sneak into the playoffs if everything falls in place.

the team has no problems scoring.. as evident last year.. we may have lost VC and Marshall and Rafer.. but CV3 and Graham and JAmes can fill the basket in their place.

What Toronto has done though.. it's improve greatly on the defensive end.
Mo Peterson, James, and Graham will greatly help the perimeter defense that was non-exsistant last year.. and you want CV3 and Bosh inside.

We also upgraded the PG position from Rafer/Palacio to JAmes/Calderon/3rd stringer... we finally have the 'true PG' we always needed in Calderon.. but we'll see how he adjusts to the NBA game.

The Raptors probably won't be letting in 100 pts game on average.. but I think is the Raptors give up about 92 a game.. and can score about 96 a game.. we'll be fine.

i predict probalby 38 wins... depending on how Captain Crunch plays.. maybe be able to squeeze a bit more wins out

you gotta be kidding me.. you expect CV3 and JG to fill the shoes of legitimate star players of Marshall and VC

you are saying two unknown and not highly regarded rookies from middle of the draft are gonna fill the shoes of two departed stars?


James is no better than rafer in that he gives slightly better defence at expense of offence.

this year there is no way the craptors can do better than last year.

we lost a lot of the offence from last year and in their place we put in a couple of backup calibre rookies and journeyman guard

gilboman wrote:you gotta be kidding me.. you expect CV3 and JG to fill the shoes of legitimate star players of Marshall and VC

I said in their place.. not replace them 100%... you need to learn to interpret what I say better

and Marshall is not a 'star' player

you are saying two unknown and not highly regarded rookies from middle of the draft are gonna fill the shoes of two departed stars?

I wouldn't say Joey Graham and CV3 are unknowns.. they are known in the NCAA (they were ranked in the Top20 in the NCAA draft boards).. and like I said before.. Donyell marshall is not a 'star'.. a good player yes.. but not a star that you make him out to be.

James is no better than rafer in that he gives slightly better defence at expense of offence.

and that is a bad thing?.. we struggled last year when Rafer kept getting beat off the dribble.. there is less chance of that happening this year.

this year there is no way the craptors can do better than last year.

and if they do beat their 33-49 season.. you will shut up about it and admit you were wrong?.. I believe the Raptors are better than what the 'media' makes them out to be.. like I predicted before.. i think about 35-38 wins

we lost a lot of the offence from last year and in their place we put in a couple of backup calibre rookies and journeyman guard

how much offense have we lost really?... Donyell averaged about 10ppg.. and Carter while still on the Raptors when he traded averaged about 15ppg.

you saying CV3 and Joey Graham can't make up the 20-24ppg? don't forget Chris Bosh averaged 4ppg more after the Carter deal.. so... where have we loss offense? we have lost 'some'.. but no 'a lot' as you are interpreting.

backup calibre rookies? man.. you may argue other stuff well.. but you sure have no clue on this one man.. you haven't even watch them and you call them backup calibre?.. sure.. there were good signs when CV3 and Joey Graham scored 22 and 20 in the intresquad game.. but they are far from the predictions you make them out to be. CV3 is probably the best potential talented bigman in the draft that is not Andrew Bogut... i'm sorry.. but I don't see where you can say backup cablire rookies.. but then.. maybe you only know names like Gerald Green or Marvin Williams.. or you listen to Bob McCowan too much

Rafer and James is pretty much a wash.. RAfer may have averaged 16 ppg.. but that is playing an average of 9 mins more than James.. and James averaged 13 ppg.

Mike James may be a journeyman guard.. but he is a scorer.. he provides leadership, he is a better defensive player and he has won an NBA championship.. can you say that about Wafer Alston?

gilboman wrote:James is no better than rafer in that he gives slightly better defence at expense of offence.

we lost a lot of the offence from last year and in their place we put in a couple of backup calibre rookies and journeyman guard

So? We lose let's say 5 extra ppg that Rafer would've gotten that James can't. But we gain 10 ppg given up with James playing defense that Rafer couldn't. How's that bad?

Glad you find their "offensive woes" hilarious. Who will ever make up the 15ppg that Carter scored?! Just because he and Donyell are gone, doesn't mean the team just loses their points...it just means other people will be taking their shots. Give the ball to Jalen, Mo Pete, Bosh and they'll score. Besides, Graham is an upgrade defensively over Carter and the team overall has improved defensively so that means they give up fewer ppg.

I'm going with what I said in the other thread, with them finishing around 36-46. Depending on how well the team gels, how the rookies do and whether injuries play a part or not, the total could be off by quite a bit. I don't really see playoffs for them but hey, the lottery's not a bad thing for a rebuilding team.

Tierre Brown with 24 points in the first preseason game? Tierre Brown?? Weren't Laker fans calling him "Tierrible" Brown last year....

rdtx2002 wrote:I said in their place.. not replace them 100%... you need to learn to interpret what I say better

and Marshall is not a 'star' player



I wouldn't say Joey Graham and CV3 are unknowns.. they are known in the NCAA (they were ranked in the Top20 in the NCAA draft boards).. and like I said before.. Donyell marshall is not a 'star'.. a good player yes.. but not a star that you make him out to be.



and that is a bad thing?.. we struggled last year when Rafer kept getting beat off the dribble.. there is less chance of that happening this year.



and if they do beat their 33-49 season.. you will shut up about it and admit you were wrong?.. I believe the Raptors are better than what the 'media' makes them out to be.. like I predicted before.. i think about 35-38 wins



how much offense have we lost really?... Donyell averaged about 10ppg.. and Carter while still on the Raptors when he traded averaged about 15ppg.

you saying CV3 and Joey Graham can't make up the 20-24ppg? don't forget Chris Bosh averaged 4ppg more after the Carter deal.. so... where have we loss offense? we have lost 'some'.. but no 'a lot' as you are interpreting.

backup calibre rookies? man.. you may argue other stuff well.. but you sure have no clue on this one man.. you haven't even watch them and you call them backup calibre?.. sure.. there were good signs when CV3 and Joey Graham scored 22 and 20 in the intresquad game.. but they are far from the predictions you make them out to be. CV3 is probably the best potential talented bigman in the draft that is not Andrew Bogut... i'm sorry.. but I don't see where you can say backup cablire rookies.. but then.. maybe you only know names like Gerald Green or Marvin Williams.. or you listen to Bob McCowan too much

Rafer and James is pretty much a wash.. RAfer may have averaged 16 ppg.. but that is playing an average of 9 mins more than James.. and James averaged 13 ppg.

Mike James may be a journeyman guard.. but he is a scorer.. he provides leadership, he is a better defensive player and he has won an NBA championship.. can you say that about Wafer Alston?

So are you saying CV3 and JG are starter quality players on any decent team on any non terrible team, they will be on the bench when the ball is tipped off.

as for marshall, no he is no all star, but he can rebound, stretch the defence and score from inside or outside. CV3 maybe able to bang inside a bit this year and that's about all that's expected.

they are decent players, but if you want to argue they can fill the void of marshall and carter; then

well mike james sure was a big part of the NBA champions wasn't he?

gilboman wrote:So are you saying CV3 and JG are starter quality players on any decent team on any non terrible team, they will be on the bench when the ball is tipped off.

as for marshall, no he is no all star, but he can rebound, stretch the defence and score from inside or outside. CV3 maybe able to bang inside a bit this year and that's about all that's expected.

they are decent players, but if you want to argue they can fill the void of marshall and carter; then

well mike james sure was a big part of the NBA champions wasn't he?

i'm saying you are a fool to instantly call them bench rookies... at least CV3 got 15 pts 5 boards and 4 blocks tonight.. so.. i dunno where you are going with the offense is gone with the Raptors.. we poured in 101 today.

so you only expect CV3 to bang in the inside.. i guess you don't really know what you are watching from CV3..

gilboman.. i guess you are MISSING THE POINT here.. the 2 rooks can make up for the 'offense' lost from VC and Marshall.. that is the whole point of this argument.. VC only averaged 15 ppg last year.. and Donyell 11ppg.. i went thru this arugument already.. but all you do is try to avoid rebuttling.

Mike James help solidfy the defense against the Lakers.. whether you like to hear it or not.

man.. you are starting to be a joke....

gilboman wrote:So are you saying CV3 and JG are starter quality players on any decent team on any non terrible team, they will be on the bench when the ball is tipped off.

as for marshall, no he is no all star, but he can rebound, stretch the defence and score from inside or outside. CV3 maybe able to bang inside a bit this year and that's about all that's expected.

they are decent players, but if you want to argue they can fill the void of marshall and carter; then

well mike james sure was a big part of the NBA champions wasn't he?

Marshall didn't really score inside for us last year since he was camped out at the 3 pt line most of the time. He's a good player and he'll do well in Cleveland, but looking at what CV3 can do so far, I think he'll be able to fill in for Marshall on the offensive side just fine. He's not the 3 pt shooter that Marshall is, but he's got a decent shot, and he's a better passer than Marshall. On the defensive side however...

I am kinda concerned that Graham seems to be sitting alot so far. The other rookies got major burn (CV, Calderon, all the camp invites). Mitchell managed to play Calderon for 28, James for 10, Brown for 29, Corey for 19, and Pack for 17. That's 103 minutes of point guards, and basically all the burn at both guard spots. Graham also had some foul trouble in summer league, so I hope that's not carrying over and an indication of some learning pains for our supposed new defensive stopper.

Last comment - cut Corey Williams now. This guy is so full of himself, and is Rafer Part 2 waiting to happen. The 5 TO's and no assists in 19 minutes of burn also doesn't help.

Bonner, Bosh, Rose and MoPete played 10 minutes each or less. They're on the team already so no biggy for them to sit game 1 of the pre season

Impressive elements -
CV3 has skill! Not a tremendous amount but he will be a solid player later on. Seems to like the off balance shot, fluid in the post with his back and has good range (he shot a 3 i believe). One thing about his game that really needs improvement is rebounding. At one point in the third, Tor was outrebounded 30-40! Expected CV3 to have better than 5 boards. 2 of them came from a put back after Brown missed a 3 near the end of the game.

Jose Calderon definitely can play! VERY slim/slight player, very quick and made Deron Williams look a bit silly on one drive (he was hacked by another player and still made his shot & FT). He can definitely find the open man on his drives as the defense collapses on him once he drives to the hoop. Not much of a jumper in his arsenal.

Tierre Brown was the leading scorer for the Raptors last night. He looked very comfortable on the court, shoots a high FT% though he missed a FT that would have given Tor a 4 pt lead at the end of regulation. Has excellent drive n dish moves along with surprisingly quick hands. He was great double team help in the post and was able to poke the ball away from a couple Jazz players.

Honourable mention

Araujo though not that impressive, did look much better on the court last night than usual. He's slimmed down significantly! His face is a lot leaner, his arms/shoulder are much more toned as well. He had a couple tacky fouls as usual but looked better in the post. He should be able to contribute a bit more this year.

to cut loose
#33 Matthews... he looks like a thinner, uglier Melo. has a decent jumper, good athleticism but doesn't look that great on defence or within the team really. After 5 minutes watching this guy, i already wished he would be cut right then and there.

#23 Corey Williams was terrible by any standard! Played satisfactory D, minimal offensive output though. His passing did not stand out to me in anyway either.

Mitchell had A. Williams, CV3, T. Brown, Robert Pack and Calderon on the court for the final 10 minutes of the game (Matthews did sub in after A. Williams fouled out). Now honestly, 3 pt guards, and two 4-spot players? Anyhow, this is pre-season so this game doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme. Brown missed a 3 pt attempt with .8s left in the OT. He was open for a split second and CV3 didn't inbound to him in time for an open shot.

etc...

There is a live DJ during the game now, 4Korner Entertainment i believe. nothing special...

Lara from last years dance pak is now the in game hostess. She made a boo boo while announcing a game called card shark. her voice echoed a lot in the arena as well

Deron Williams deserved to be a high lottery pick. Short but strong, good court vision and has a very good jumper. He crossed over a raptor then popped the shot in his face.

^^ Thanks for the summary!

hey just wondering, did a lot of people boo araujo and/or CV3?

There weren't enough people in the stands to put together a decent "boo".

To say that the Raptors "poured in 101 points" is a little silly, as it was a scrub v. scrub game.

CV3 looked good at times, awkward at times....exactly as he should at this point. He will definitely have a few great games this season when he gets good matchups, but there are guys that are going to eat him alive, as he's not physical enough to stop or score against a real banger (or a more skilled 4 or 5 like Timmy D or KG, but that goes without saying)

Calderon looked great, I thought, for a Euro rookie - he's got wheels and some decent moves, but he was a little hesitant on the offensive end. Three consecutive trips down he made the same move (a good one....made Williams look slowww) but dished off, so they stopped respecting his drive. He also threw the ball away a couple of times for no reason.

Brown looked good, too - he can definitely play in the league.

Bonner and Hoffa looked dopey, and didn't do anything with the few minutes they were allowed. Bosh knows he has a lot to prove this year, but do these guys? I'm not sure...they could hurt us badly if they're not going to kill themselves night in and night out.

Final thought: Toronto is going to lose a lot of games. We all know that. But I think it's a scrappy looking team that's going to steal a few exciting games from more skilled teams. I will watch.