Computers & Electronics

Rogers Home Phone & 3rd Party VOIP Simultaneously

  • Last Updated:
  • Apr 23rd, 2018 10:31 pm
[OP]
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May 31, 2016
101 posts
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Rogers Home Phone & 3rd Party VOIP Simultaneously

Hey all,

So I'm nearing the end of my current Rogers residential contract, and I'm considering switching to one of the 3rd party VOIP offers mentioned around RFD (Fongo, FPL, Voip.ms, etc.). I'd still like to keep my home phone number at this time, and use my existing home phone handsets. My current home phone is unlimited NA calling with 6 features.

Turns out, with my new deal, I can cancel my home phone at any time. So what I'm thinking I might like to do is trial one of the 3rd party VOIP providers to see if we're happy with the quality, reliability, etc.

If I were to go down this road, can I run both products simultaneously? Or is it one or the other?

Also, could I port my number later? i.e. keep current home phone number with Rogers, get new one with one of the above companies and then if I'm happy with them, port the number over to the 3rd party provider?


I have one of the usual cordless setups with 1 base unit and multiple handsets. I assume with the above mentioned VOIP providers, I just plug it into the base unit and the additional handsets work as they do just now?

Thanks!

Graham.
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I had both bell and fpl running at same time using 2 different landline phones because I wasn't sure. After few days, I was sold and ported out from bell into fpl.
[OP]
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May 31, 2016
101 posts
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peteryorkuca wrote:
Apr 19th, 2018 4:45 pm
I had both bell and fpl running at same time using 2 different landline phones because I wasn't sure. After few days, I was sold and ported out from bell into fpl.
Great, thank you!

So I can get FPL setup without porting the number (and therefore have 2 home phone lines for a period of time), and then port from Rogers to FPL once I'm happy/sold, and it'll just overwrite my existing FPL number with the one I have at Rogers?

The only thing I wondered is, I believe Rogers home phone works differently to Bell, i.e. Rogers is already VOIP and Bell isn't. So I'm just wondering if what you said about having both running at the same time still applies if it is Rogers?

Thanks!

Graham.
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gmason86 wrote:
Apr 20th, 2018 8:36 am
So I'm just wondering if what you said about having both running at the same time still applies if it is Rogers?
Yes, it does. Rogers and Shaw use their own private network between you and them for their VoIP Home Phone service. Bell and Telus are POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service), by the way.

I strongly recommend reading the first two pages of this thread before jumping into anything: click newegg-obihai-obi200-ata-49-99-1-50-ehf ... ax-2145415.



Freephoneline gets its name from its free desktop app, and it uses 32 bit edition Java (you may need the latest version installed): https://java.com/en/download/.



I always suggest trying the Freephoneline desktop app for free before paying anything to Freephoneline. The desktop app is where FPL gets its name.
It's completely free to use. However, people typically have worse experiences with the desktop app than they do using
FPL with an ATA or IP phone (with the VoIP unlock key). But testing for free never hurt anyone. The free desktop app can be found after registering
and logging in at https://www.freephoneline.ca/downloadDesktopApplication.


A.Use winmtr http://winmtr.net/download-winmtr/

B. For Freephoneline.ca (based in Ontario), test to voip.freephoneline.ca (let winmtr ping about 100 times), voip2.freephoneline.ca, and voip4.freephoneline.ca. You can copy text to clipboard and paste your results (do not post your own IP public address though) and post them for others to examine if you want.

C. Look at the very last hop or line. Take a look at your average ping--and your maximum. You want those values to be relatively close.
You do not want high pings and lots of jitter (you do not want a lot of variation between each ping). If you get horrible results (pings over 200ms), you should probably avoid FPL.

I get between 11 (voip.freephoneline.ca and voip2.freephoneline.ca)-24ms (voip4.freephonline.ca) on average, depending on the server I'm testing to. Preferably, you want pings below 100ms.

Anything over 200ms is unacceptable. You'll begin to encounter crosstalk, even if an untrained ear doesn't notice. So, if you're getting really high pings and jitter, I would avoid FPL.

What you don't want to see is 40, 45, 50, 35, 500, 40, 30, 45, 700. That's bad jitter.
You want relatively consistent pings without a lot of variation.

Try the free FPL desktop app first: https://www.freephoneline.ca/downloadDesktopApplication (you will need to create an account and login).
(fwiw, I'm not a fan of this app)

Make sure that you're not muting anything (microphone/speakers), and that you tested to ensure your mic is working before fiddling around with the app: http://win10faq.com/fix-microphone-settings/

And make sure you test incoming calls for 1-way audio issues before paying anything to FPL (you'll need a mic and headphones/speakers to test). Test on a computer that's connected to your router (without DMZ or port forwarding enabled). Should you encounter 1-way audio issues, look for a feature called SIP ALG in your router (you may need to call your ISP if you're using a modem/router combo) and disable that feature.

A. Netgear R7000 routers

Update firmware. Disable SIP ALG in this router. Then reboot modem, router, and ATA in that order. Then test again.

If you have a Netgear R7000 router, you may need to install third party XWRT-Vortex firmware. I recommend doing this anyway to obtain easy access to both UDP Unreplied and UDP Assured timeout settings. Afterwards, turn off the router and the ATA. Turn on the router. Wait for it to be fully up and running (including Wi-Fi). Then turn on the ATA. Download XWRT-Vortex here: http://xvtx.ru/xwrt/download.htm. In your router, navigate to Advanced Settings–>WAN–>NAT Passthrough–>SIP Passthrough. Change SIP Passthrough to “Enabled + NAT helper.” Click “Apply.”

B. Nettis 4422 modem from Carry Telecom (click the "Internet" tab)
http://www.carrytel.ca/support.aspx
Q : DSL - My VoIP phone does not work with Netis 4422 modem.
A : Please download the newest Netis firmware at www.carrytel.ca/download/netis1228.zip. Unzip the netis1228.zip file and update the firmware file netis1228.img for your modem. The new firmware has been tested and working with most of Voip phone providers

C. Asus VLAN

A number of people have been trying to eliminate Bell Hubs from their setups by using this guide: http://blog.ngpixel.com/post/1044497475 ... own-router.
At the time of this guide being written, NAT acceleration must be disabled in this setup in order for SIP services, including Freephoneline, to work properly. In your router, navigate to Advanced Settings-->LAN-->Switch Control-->NAT Acceleration. Select "disable." Click "apply."Then reboot your modem, router (wait for Wi-Fi SSIDs to populate first before rebooting ATA), and your ATA, in that order.

To determine whether you need NAT Acceleration enabled, visit https://routerguide.net/nat-acceleration-on-or-off/. If you do require NAT Acceleration to be enabled, don’t use VLAN with Asus routers.

D. Hitron CGN series gateway modem/router combos (from Rogers, Shaw, or another ISP) or any modem/router combo from any ISP with SIP ALG forced on

If you don’t have your own router, and if you can’t get someone from Rogers or your ISP to disable SIP ALG for you in their modem/router combo, your ATA may need to register with voip4.freephoneline.ca:6060. The purpose of voip4.freephoneline.ca:6060 is to help circumvent faulty SIP ALG features in routers. So, if you’re experiencing one-way audio issues as a result of SIP ALG, this is the SIP server to try. Check to ensure that you can’t disable SIP ALG yourself (refer to point E below).

E. Hitron CGN3ACSMR and CODA-4582 series gateway modem/router combos from Rogers (and possibly other ISPs)
Open your web browser, and login at 192.168.0.1. Default username is cusadmin.
Select the “Basic” tab and disable “SIP ALG.” Click the “save changes” button.

F. Concerning Bell Hubs,

Typically it's better to have your own router and to stick whatever modem/router combo your ISP gives you into bridge mode:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/please-s ... r-1993629/




i. Typically it's better to have your own router and to stick whatever modem/router combo your ISP gives you into bridge mode.

ii. Disable SIP ALG in your own router. Many modem/router combos that are issued by ISPs have faulty SIP ALG/SPI functions enabled, with no way to disable them. These features can mangle SIP headers.

To understand why SIP ALG is often a serious headache visit http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Routers+SIP+ALG


Otherwise, get your ISP to disable SIP ALG for you. The rep you speak to may not know how to disable SIP ALG. Be prepared for stupidity and resistance. Someone may try to enable DMZ in your modem/router combo; that's a security risk and very stupid. Be aware if you reset your modem or when your ISP pushes new firmware to your modem/router combo, SIP ALG will be enabled again by default.





iii. Properly enable QoS in your router for your computer that's running the Freephoneline desktop app (and ensure no other programs are running on your computer that are hogging bandwidth while using the Freephoneline desktop app). Refer to your router's manual or contact your ISP if you were issued a modem/router combo from them (typically those routers suck and have horrible or absent QoS functions).

I'm not a huge fan of this website, but it suffices for an explanation of QoS: http://www.voipmechanic.com/qos-for-voip.htm
Avoid anything it says about the G.729 codec.


iv. If you still get one-way audio issues with the desktop app, you may need to port forward, which is a security risk (and not advisable).

The FPL desktop app uses ports 5060-5061,6060-6061,13000-13001 if you're going to port forward for the desktop app (you need to port forward to the LAN IP of the computer you're using. For most home networks the IP will begin 192.168.xxx.x). Refer to your router's manual to learn how to port forward (if your router came from your ISP, contact your ISP).

I would start just by port forwarding 13000-13001 only, which is for RTP (audio packets). If that still doesn't work, you can try adding 6060 or 6061. The most dangerous ports to forward are 5060-5061 and really shouldn't be necessary. I guess if all else fails, forward all of them: 5060-5061,6060-6061,13000-13001

These are all UDP ports.

5060, 5061, 6060, and 6061 should be alternate SIP ports.

Only port forward if all else fails (and only do it temporarily, since it's a security risk).
Last edited by Guest1284983 on Jul 22nd, 2018 10:01 am, edited 3 times in total.
Please do not PM me for tech support. I help out on the forums when I can. Thank you.
OBi200/202 Freephonline PDF guide (version 1.60) can be found here. OBi200 info can be found here. For OBi202 info, click here.
[OP]
Jr. Member
May 31, 2016
101 posts
24 upvotes
Thank you! I will for sure take a read (I've had a skim, but will read it in more detail).

The obi200 was on sale yesterday for $59.99 at newegg. From searching past threads, seems the cheapest is usually Black Friday time for $49.99. It went up to $69.99 today. So I decided to bite and buy one while it was on a sale that seemed unlikely to be bettered before November. I did sign up for the trial of premier at newegg, which allows me to return for free if I completely change my mind.

I'll download the app and test out, as you suggested. I assume if I'm happy, I can then port my Rogers number over at a later date?

Thanks again,

Graham.
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gmason86 wrote:
Apr 20th, 2018 1:17 pm

I'll download the app and test out, as you suggested. I assume if I'm happy, I can then port my Rogers number over at a later date?
Yes, you can, for $25+tax.

Visit
a) https://support.freephoneline.ca/hc/en- ... r-porting-
b) https://support.freephoneline.ca/hc/en- ... oneline-ca
c) https://support.fongo.com/hc/en-us/articles/212436086 (if your phone number does not belong to one of those cities, you can't port into Freephoneline)

The OBi20x/30x Freephoneline PDF guide should be used for provisioning your ATA if you decide to use Freephoneline: http://forum.fongo.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 805#p73839.
Using the PDF guide instead of using the Freephoneline profile at Obitalk.com can save a lot of headaches. I especially recommend reading the first four pages (the preamble) of the PDF guide regardless of the VoIP SIP service you choose in order to better understand what's required.
Last edited by Guest1284983 on Apr 20th, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please do not PM me for tech support. I help out on the forums when I can. Thank you.
OBi200/202 Freephonline PDF guide (version 1.60) can be found here. OBi200 info can be found here. For OBi202 info, click here.
[OP]
Jr. Member
May 31, 2016
101 posts
24 upvotes
Webslinger wrote:
Apr 20th, 2018 1:24 pm
Yes, you can.

Visit
a) https://support.freephoneline.ca/hc/en- ... r-porting-
b) https://support.freephoneline.ca/hc/en- ... oneline-ca
c) https://support.fongo.com/hc/en-us/articles/212436086 (if your phone number does not belong to one of those cities, you can't port into Freephoneline)

The OBi20x/30x Freephoneline PDF guide should be used for provisioning your ATA if you decide to use Freephoneline: http://forum.fongo.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 805#p73839.
Using the PDF guide instead of using the Freephoneline profile at Obitalk.com can save a lot of headaches. I especially recommend reading the first four pages (the preamble) of the PDF guide regardless of the VoIP SIP service you choose in order to better understand what's required.
Thanks very much! Will find some time and see how I get on with the app, then go from there :-)

Graham.
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gmason86 wrote:
Apr 20th, 2018 1:27 pm
Thanks very much! Will find some time and see how I get on with the app, then go from there :-)
For what it's worth, typically people's experiences with the app are much worse than when using an ATA or IP Phone with Freephoneline, but it's definitely worth testing for free first.

If you're interested, the RFD Freephoneline thread is over here: https://forums.redflagdeals.com/freepho ... 21229/440/.
Last edited by Guest1284983 on Apr 20th, 2018 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please do not PM me for tech support. I help out on the forums when I can. Thank you.
OBi200/202 Freephonline PDF guide (version 1.60) can be found here. OBi200 info can be found here. For OBi202 info, click here.
[OP]
Jr. Member
May 31, 2016
101 posts
24 upvotes
Webslinger wrote:
Apr 20th, 2018 2:37 pm
For what it's worth, typically people's experiences with the app are much worse than when using an ATA or IP Phone with Freephoneline, but it's definitely worth testing for free first.
Thanks - will bear that in mind. But will also do all the other due diligence, like testing ping times, etc.

Graham.
[OP]
Jr. Member
May 31, 2016
101 posts
24 upvotes
Just a quick update for Webslinger.

I downloaded the desktop app at the weekend and it all sounded great.

I ran the various ping tests and got great results for all of them as well, both over wired and wireless.

Have also taken a read through the pages you mentioned.


Just waiting on my obi200 getting delivered, and then will start getting things set up. If I want to have both my Rogers line and FPL running at the same time, anything in particular I need to do (other than have 2 phones to be able to support that!)? Obviously the existing jacks throughout my house are ultimately connected to the Rogers VOIP device that is in my basement. Does that need to be disconnected, or do I just leave that in play, and then connect the obi200 to one of the other jacks in the house that Rogers already activated, or will that pick up the Rogers service too? Once I'm done with Rogers, do I need to remove their device in the basement?

Apologies if I perhaps just missed this part in the guide. If I did, please point me in the correct direction!

Thanks,

Graham.
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gmason86 wrote:
Apr 23rd, 2018 11:44 am
If I want to have both my Rogers line and FPL running at the same time, anything in particular I need to do (other than have 2 phones to be able to support that!)?
No

Obviously the existing jacks throughout my house are ultimately connected to the Rogers VOIP device that is in my basement. Does that need to be disconnected
Yes
or do I just leave that in play
No
and then connect the obi200 to one of the other jacks in the house that Rogers already activated
No


You can’t have both Rogers equipment and the OBi200 connected to house jacks simultaneously. It’s one or the other. You’ll need to disconnect Rogers’ equipment and also ensure that the Telcom’s wiring is disconnected at the demarc (Rogers may have already done this). Otherwise, you risk frying the ATA.

You may need to disconnect your Telco company's line at the demarc--or make sure power from it is not running to your existing phone jacks. Visit http://www.voipmyhouse.com/#thesolution.

Also, check out bogolisk and canadaodyowner's pictures:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/merged-f ... 21229/331/
Better to ask them about it than me.

There's a related thread over here (might be a good place to ask): http://forums.redflagdeals.com/phone-ja ... #p16243162

I probably won’t respond to further home wiring questions as I don’t feel comfortable doing that over a forum.
Please do not PM me for tech support. I help out on the forums when I can. Thank you.
OBi200/202 Freephonline PDF guide (version 1.60) can be found here. OBi200 info can be found here. For OBi202 info, click here.
[OP]
Jr. Member
May 31, 2016
101 posts
24 upvotes
Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at the other threads you pointed me to as well, and will ask there if I need some more info.

Thanks again!
[OP]
Jr. Member
May 31, 2016
101 posts
24 upvotes
Webslinger wrote:
Apr 23rd, 2018 1:25 pm

You can’t have both Rogers equipment and the OBi200 connected to house jacks simultaneously. It’s one or the other. You’ll need to disconnect Rogers’ equipment and also ensure that the Telcom’s wiring is disconnected at the demarc (Rogers may have already done this). Otherwise, you risk frying the ATA.
I did have one further question directly on this topic I was hoping you could answer.

If you can't have both Rogers and the OBi200 connected at the same time, how do you have both Rogers and FPL running simultaneously? From an earlier post of yours, it sounded as though that was possible, but perhaps I misunderstood?

I've read a lot more on those pages you sent, and I think I now understand better what I need to do in order to get FPL up by itself. When I get home from work, I'll check out the wiring situation at home more precisely, but I believe I know what I need to do in order to run FPL by itself. My issue is how to not switch off the Rogers home phoneline at the same time and have both running?

Thanks!
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gmason86 wrote:
Apr 23rd, 2018 4:39 pm

If you can't have both Rogers and the OBi200 connected at the same time, how do you have both Rogers and FPL running simultaneously?
Don't wire both devices into house phone jacks simultaneously. And use separate phones.
From an earlier post of yours, it sounded as though that was possible, but perhaps I misunderstood?
It is possible. Remember you asked whether what peteryorkuca wrote still applied.
peteryorkuca wrote:
Apr 19th, 2018 4:45 pm
I had both bell and fpl running at same time using 2 different landline phones
And that does apply to you, gmason86, as well. You can use 2 different phones.
gmason86 wrote: My issue is how to not switch off the Rogers home phoneline at the same time and have both running?
Attach a different telephone directly to the back of the OBi200 (above the green label).
Some people use a cordless phone set: https://www.costco.ca/Panasonic%c2%ae-K ... 02607.html (just an example)
The base plugs into the back of the OBi200 (above the green label). You would then distribute the other cordless handsets around the house as needed.
Image

Or just attach a single regular telephone to phone port/jack on the back of the OBi200 (above the green label).

Image

If you cancel Rogers Home Phone, disconnect it from your existing phone jacks in your house, and disconnect the line from the Telco running into your house (which might already be done). Then you can connect your OBi200 to your existing phone jacks in your house, if that's what you prefer: newegg-obihai-obi200-ata-49-99-1-50-ehf ... #p28508728.
Please do not PM me for tech support. I help out on the forums when I can. Thank you.
OBi200/202 Freephonline PDF guide (version 1.60) can be found here. OBi200 info can be found here. For OBi202 info, click here.
[OP]
Jr. Member
May 31, 2016
101 posts
24 upvotes
Thank you! I've just realized a stupid assumption I've been making all along. Now it all makes perfect sense! Apologies!

I went outside to have a look at the demarc outside this evening. Unfortunately the rogers demarc seems to require some special tool to open so I couldn't get into it too easily. Next to it was also box that said northern telecom on it. Was that perhaps the phone provider before Rogers? I've never heard of them, but we only came to Canada in 2012! I'm guessing it was perhaps disconnected once rogers was installed.

The likelihood is that once I cancel Rogers, I'll go with the solution of plugging a base station directly onto the obi200 (we already have a set like the one you linked to). If we ultimately go with that solution, is there any need to open and disconnect wires at the demarc? The only reason I ask if it's necessary is because I'm unsure if I can get into it, as I mentioned above. I'm going to do some further digging to see if others have encountered one the same as mine, but just wanting to know if I it's necessary if I go with the base station solution.

Thanks!

Graham.

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