Computers & Electronics

Is Rogers lying about my loss of cable?

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Is Rogers lying about my loss of cable?

-I have traditional Rogers digital cable TV (grandfather VIP)
-I currently have three box models 4250HD, 4642HD x2, and 9865 PVR
-I lose TV on the older 4250 & PVR almost everyday only in between the hours of 11am to approx 730pm, but the other two boxes work fine
-TV signal drops off to either black screen or pixelated. I still have access to the guide but live TV and Rogers on Demand is useless. I can still access the recorded shows on the Hard Drive
-In the evening, signal clears up and everything works normal.
-I've tried swapping equipment to different locations and same problem
-They admit that the 4250 is only receiving 23dB and the PVR is getting 26 dB when the signal should be over 35 dB.

After multiple calls, Rogers is telling me it's a hardware problem (my problem) and not anything on their end. I'm skeptical because if it is a hardware issue, why would the boxes be so selective in the times it decides to not work? Always only during the daytime. Works fine after 830pm every night.
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Did you try putting the PVR or 4250 where the 4642 is? Just to see if it works in that location?

Sounds like your cable is split into the 4 boxes. Did Rogers install the 4 cables or did you use a splitter? If you split it yourself then maybe that's the problem. Try removing the splitters and see if the boxes are working properly.
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I had this problem, but not as bad as yours. Signal improved with new RG6 cabling in the house (some installed by Rogers) and re-jigging of the splitters, as well as some new connectors. This replaced old RG59 and RG6 cable. However, it would still cut out sometimes. Then they installed an in-home amplifier and that helped a bit, but not completely, and introduced other problems.

Finally, after multiple calls, they agreed to replace the cable from the pole. The replaced the aging RG6 with RG11. With that, all my problems went away. However, it was hard enough getting them to do this for me with my aerial cable run. If you have buried cable, they're probably even more reluctant to do it. However, as mentioned, replacing all the cable runs in my house did help too.

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ds2chan wrote: ↑ Did you try putting the PVR or 4250 where the 4642 is? Just to see if it works in that location?

Sounds like your cable is split into the 4 boxes. Did Rogers install the 4 cables or did you use a splitter? If you split it yourself then maybe that's the problem. Try removing the splitters and see if the boxes are working properly.
Yes, I tried hooking up the 9865 where the 4642 is and it did not work. The 4642 did work where the pvr was located.

It is currently on a splitter. It was put there by Rogers and it is an amplifier as it's plugged into an electrical outlet via a COAX. Everything was working for years up to a few weeks ago.

I was able to get into the PVR diagnostics page around 830pm and the dbmv was within -0.8 to -0.2, and the SNR was above 30 dB. Cable was still out.
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Update:

All outlets are gone now.
Let's see if Rogers says that all 4 of my boxes have mysteriously malfunctioned.
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chimaican wrote: ↑ Update:

All outlets are gone now.
Let's see if Rogers says that all 4 of my boxes have mysteriously malfunctioned.
yikes.. I have 2 suggestions before you let a Rogers tech into your place.

1) Remove the splitter and give that a shot. The Rogers guy would probably do that anyways.

2) If you can try to replace one of your coax cables with a different one. I did this for my Internet a couple of times. It didn't seem that the coax cable had an issue but the Internet wouldn't work properly until I unscrewed the coax cable from the modem and splitter and then screwed it back in. No idea why that helped.
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ds2chan wrote: ↑ yikes.. I have 2 suggestions before you let a Rogers tech into your place.

1) Remove the splitter and give that a shot. The Rogers guy would probably do that anyways.

2) If you can try to replace one of your coax cables with a different one. I did this for my Internet a couple of times. It didn't seem that the coax cable had an issue but the Internet wouldn't work properly until I unscrewed the coax cable from the modem and splitter and then screwed it back in. No idea why that helped.
Rogers currently not allowing their techs to go inside people's homes.

I did try to unscrew and rescrew the various coax cables. All them are currently RG6 cables, so there shouldn't be an issue them. It is still my belief that the issue is external. Unless it's the splitter/booster, but again, it seems to always be around the same times, so I still feel it's external.

Once again everything was working this morning at 6am. I haven't checked since (I just checked, same PVR & 4250 gone again). So I'm sure it's not my boxes, especially after all 4 outlets went out last night.
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chimaican wrote: ↑ Rogers currently not allowing their techs to go inside people's homes.

I did try to unscrew and rescrew the various coax cables. All them are currently RG6 cables, so there shouldn't be an issue them. It is still my belief that the issue is external. Unless it's the splitter/booster, but again, it seems to always be around the same times, so I still feel it's external.

Once again everything was working this morning at 6am. I haven't checked since. So I'm sure it's not my boxes, especially after all 4 outlets went out last night.
I agree with you. I think it's on their end somewhere. I just thought you might as well try those things while you're sitting there waiting.

I talked to Rogers about 1 month ago when it was time for me to update my contract and they said they were waiting for the province to give the go ahead for their techs to be able to enter homes again. For some reason I thought they got the green light.

Is your Internet speeds OK? Whatever is affecting your cable I'm wondering if it would affect your Internet somehow.
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I'm having similar issues. I haven't really notice the times as you have as I don't really watch TV TBH.

I own all my boxes, just like you. I have a Nextbox 3 in my family room that's constantly getting pixelated, but the Nexbox 1 (no PVR) upstairs is not displaying any issues.

I haven't checked the TVs in the other room as we don't really watch Rogers on those TV. I'll have to check it out one of these days.
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ds2chan wrote: ↑ I agree with you. I think it's on their end somewhere. I just thought you might as well try those things while you're sitting there waiting.

I talked to Rogers about 1 month ago when it was time for me to update my contract and they said they were waiting for the province to give the go ahead for their techs to be able to enter homes again. For some reason I thought they got the green light.

Is your Internet speeds OK? Whatever is affecting your cable I'm wondering if it would affect your Internet somehow.
My internet is running fine. I'm going through a third party (CarryTel) and I haven't had any noticeable problems. Streaming is fine. That cable line is split from the exterior box rather than the splitter at the demarc point. So from that point of view, it could be a faulty splitter that is screwing with the signal, but again, I have my doubts.

I'm going to try exchanging the cable ports at the demarc (9865 with 4642) and see. If it still doesn't work then I'll know it can't be a faulty splitter port. Although I guess it could still be the splitter if there's enough interference. My gut still says it's coming from the node at street level.
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chimaican wrote: ↑ My internet is running fine. I'm going through a third party (CarryTel) and I haven't had any noticeable problems. Streaming is fine. That cable line is split from the exterior box rather than the splitter at the demarc point. So from that point of view, it could be a faulty splitter that is screwing with the signal, but again, I have my doubts.

I'm going to try exchanging the cable ports at the demarc (9865 with 4642) and see. If it still doesn't work then I'll know it can't be a faulty splitter port. Although I guess it could still be the splitter if there's enough interference. My gut still says it's coming from the node at street level.
IF they have a configuration like Videotron cable ISP, the internet part operate in the lower VHF frequencies, it will be less affected by cable loss thant the Higher frequencies that are use for digital tv channels.
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jackrabbit000 wrote: ↑ No different than Shaw, everytime I complain that my Internet is down, the a-holes always blame it on my computers.
The Tier 1 techs are either incompetent, or mandated to stonewall you and lie to you. I've had my own share of problems with Shaw. As soon as I switched providers and called retention to cancel service they told me they would fix the problem. Problem is they couldn't beat the offer I had received, nor match it.
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EugW wrote: ↑ I had this problem, but not as bad as yours. Signal improved with new RG6 cabling in the house (some installed by Rogers) and re-jigging of the splitters, as well as some new connectors. This replaced old RG59 and RG6 cable. However, it would still cut out sometimes. Then they installed an in-home amplifier and that helped a bit, but not completely, and introduced other problems.

Finally, after multiple calls, they agreed to replace the cable from the pole. The replaced the aging RG6 with RG11. With that, all my problems went away. However, it was hard enough getting them to do this for me with my aerial cable run. If you have buried cable, they're probably even more reluctant to do it. However, as mentioned, replacing all the cable runs in my house did help too.
So the 2nd tech came by, checked out all the signals from the street box to the external box and he said everything still looked good even though all 4 boxes weren't working. For the heck of it I asked if he could give me a new splitter to try to see if the one connected was causing any issues. I went and swapped the amplified splitter for the basic non-powered one and all the boxes came back to life (at least for now as it could be just coincidence they all came back). So they're at least working. Could the problem have been caused by interference coming from the amplifier splitter? Would that effect SNR?

Because the one hooked up now isn't a powered splitter, my average power signal strength (QAM256) on each box went from -0.4 dBmv down to between -7 to -10 dBmv (depending on station). Will the weaker strength effect the overall HD quality?

I'm not too educated on this stuff, so can someone tell me if I should be going further into the tech support (like asking for a replacement splitter for another amplifier)?
Last edited by chimaican on Jul 2nd, 2020 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chimaican wrote: ↑ So the 2nd tech came by, checked out all the signals from the street box to the external box and he said everything still looked good even though all 4 boxes weren't working. For the heck of it I asked if he could give me a new splitter to try to see if the one connected was causing any issues. I went and swapped the amplified splitter for the basic non-powered one and all the boxes came back to life (at least for now as it could be just coincidence they all came back). So they're at least working. Could the problem have been caused by interference coming from the amplifier splitter? Would that effect SNR?

Because the one hooked up now isn't a powered splitter, my average power signal strength (QAM264) on each box went from -0.4 dBmv down to between -7 to -10 dBmv (depending on station). Will the weaker strength effect the overall HD quality?

I'm not too educated on this stuff, so can someone tell me if I should be going further into the tech support (like asking for a replacement splitter for another amplifier)?
A two way splitter will drop you signal of 3.2-3.5 Db. a 4 way, will drop 6.5-7 Db. If you have a four way splitter, then your drop from -0.4 dBmv to -7 is normal.

PS: QAM264 does not exist, you probably meant QAM256.
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chimaican wrote: ↑ So the 2nd tech came by, checked out all the signals from the street box to the external box and he said everything still looked good even though all 4 boxes weren't working. For the heck of it I asked if he could give me a new splitter to try to see if the one connected was causing any issues. I went and swapped the amplified splitter for the basic non-powered one and all the boxes came back to life (at least for now as it could be just coincidence they all came back). So they're at least working. Could the problem have been caused by interference coming from the amplifier splitter? Would that effect SNR?

Because the one hooked up now isn't a powered splitter, my average power signal strength (QAM256) on each box went from -0.4 dBmv down to between -7 to -10 dBmv (depending on station). Will the weaker strength effect the overall HD quality?

I'm not too educated on this stuff, so can someone tell me if I should be going further into the tech support (like asking for a replacement splitter for another amplifier)?
Yes, they put an amplifier in my house for weak signal but it didn't fully solve the problem and may have caused other issues. What solved the problem was replacing the RG6 from the pole with RG11. When that was done, the signal strength improved noticeably, allowing the amplifier to be removed. Remember, an amplifier will not only increase the signal strength. It will also amplify the noise. With the new cabling and with the amplifier removed, I never get TV dropouts now.

I'm curious. Which amplifier do you have?

-7 to -10 dBmv without an amplifier should be OK. You'd get stronger signal with better cabling though. Do you have good RG6 with good connectors, or do you have old RG59 with cheap connectors in the house? Can you remove any of the splits? Each split drops the signal 3.5 dB. However, anything between -10 to +10 is considered normal. (0 is best apparently.) If you have consistent signal with no dropouts, then don't worry about it. Getting stronger signal will not improve the quality. Basically, either it works properly or it doesn't. It's not like Netflix which varies the quality based on bitrate.

My signal strength was worse than yours, but got a lot better once they installed the RG11 from the telephone pole.

While my TV always works perfectly now, I did get some reliability issues with internet access (which runs on different frequencies). It turns out there was something going on in my neighbourhood affecting the incoming signal, so they did something upstream from me, and about 10 days later all the problems with my internet access went away.
Last edited by EugW on Jul 2nd, 2020 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EugW wrote: ↑ My signal strength was worse than yours, but got a lot better once they installed the RG11 from the telephone pole.
I guess I could try to ask for their RG11 but I doubt they will. The street broadband box is literally in front of my house. 25-30ft from there to my exterior box.

Yeah, I was thinking it could be the amp-splitter too that has gone faulty due to age. I only say this because it's been there for 7yrs no issue. I can only see what happens over the next few days to see if the issue returns. If it does, then it wasn't the amp.

The amp was also for the Rogers home phone that I got rid of years ago.
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chimaican wrote: ↑ I guess I could try to ask for their RG11 but I doubt they will. The street broadband box is literally in front of my house. 25-30ft from there to my exterior box.

Yeah, I was thinking it could be the amp-splitter too that has gone faulty due to age. I only say this because it's been there for 7yrs no issue. I can only see what happens over the next few days to see if the issue returns. If it does, then it wasn't the amp.
If you don't need the amplifier, then remove it. If you can get consistent -10 signal or higher on your setup on each channel without it, then that's the best solution. The in-house amplifiers they provide often are just bandaids and may cause problems even when functioning perfectly. Even if it worked fine for 7 years, that doesn't mean it wasn't causing issues. It's probably just that previously, you had enough cushion that the problems you had didn't matter too much. However, that is no longer the case. Your setup was marginal, and the amplifier may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. And as mentioned, if there are any splits that can be removed, then remove them. ie. Don't split upstream from your TVs to extra jacks just because you can.

---

Think of it this way. A lot of people mistakenly think that any HDMI cable is fine for connecting your components to your TVs. It's a popular myth here, but it's simply false. HDMI cables vary highly in quality. You can often get away with cheap no-name cables, but even a crappy cable can work fine if it's a short cable and given the right conditions. However, any change to that setup can wreak havoc. For example, even though a cable may work fine with a 1080p game console, swap in a 1080p Blu-ray player and suddenly it may not work 100% of the time anymore. And it's even worse with 4K equipment. Even if it does appear to work, it's pretty embarrassing to host that party to all of a sudden have it not work, just because of the luck of the draw that day with those components, etc.
Last edited by EugW on Jul 2nd, 2020 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EugW wrote: ↑ And as mentioned, if there are any splits that can be removed, then remove them. ie. Don't split upstream from your TVs to extra jacks just because you can.
I've already disconnected the amplifier and using the non-powered splitter now. I could always disconnect the basement (unfinished) one for now since I rarely use it. If I do, would it make a difference if I continue using the 4 way splitter or should I go get a 3-way?

Thx man.
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chimaican wrote: ↑ I've already disconnected the amplifier and using the non-powered splitter now. I could always disconnect the basement (unfinished) one for now since I rarely use it. If I do, would it make a difference if I continue using the 4 way splitter or should I go get a 3-way?

Thx man.
Going from a 4-way to a 3-way isn't quite as obvious for the topology, since some of the outputs will have no improvement in signal strength. You have to plan your topology because:

2-way splitter: Two outputs, with 3.5 dB loss per output.
3-way splitter: Three outputs, with 3.5 dB loss for one output, but 7 dB loss for the two other outputs.
4-way splitter: Four outputs, with 7 dB loss per output.

You'll have to check all your cable boxes to see which are the lowest, and set up your splitters accordingly. And make sure you have good quality splitters, with the right frequency support.
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chimaican wrote: ↑ The amp was also for the Rogers home phone that I got rid of years ago.
Antronix is a good brand at least. But an amplifier is still not recommended if you don't absolutely need it.

Good splitter brands (from what I've been told) include Antronix, PCT, ChannelMaster. Don't get any old splitter. There is a lot of crap out there. And you need to get the splitters that support 1 GHz or better.

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