Credit Cards

Rogers Muse Mastercard

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  • Nov 20th, 2020 7:03 pm
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Nov 6, 2018
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Rogers Muse Mastercard

Some new information about MasterCards newest tier, Muse has come to light from someone claiming to have insider info.

Here's the quote from reddit
Just got inside information that rogers will be launching a muse card.

It will have all the same benefits as the world elite card plus 0% foreign transaction fee (with 0.5% cash back on foreign purchases), 5 free lounge passes, 5% cashback on Rogers products, 2% cash back on everything else. $99 AF (FYF for current world elite holders who accept upgrade offer)

Card design will be flat numbering on a black backdrop, card will be metal

To be expected late October.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanc ... urce=share

Kind of makes sense for the devaluation of the WE we saw.

This might be a solid card to keep after the FYF to use between churns and to help simplify things, if the spend makes sense over the free WE with 1.5%.

Considering the AF will be cheaper according to this info (which seems a little to me for being above WE) than what Brim WE currently costs (after FYF promo) this should be interesting to see if shakes up the market although we can't directly compare these two as they're two different tiers.
Last edited by TomRFD on Oct 31st, 2020 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: updated title
270 replies
Sr. Member
Oct 27, 2012
555 posts
431 upvotes
I like the sound of this. I'm hoping other Muse cards are similar (at least 2% flat across the board). I definitely spend enough to make the extra 0.5% worth it over the World Elite. If this card is actually real and no other Muse cards can beat it I think I found my new card. Too bad I would have no use for the 5% cashback on Rogers products.
Sr. Member
May 12, 2019
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The minimum annual spend on the regular WE is $15k and income requirements are $80k annually. This one will have even higher requirements, it only pays back in cashback, and you get 5 lounge tickets. Honestly for the amount of spend you're going to be required to put on it the Amex Platinum is still a better deal; hell, even at "one card does all" status this isn't exactly the strongest compared to some of even the more standard WEs from big 5 banks.
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Dec 16, 2005
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Cheapmaestro wrote: The minimum annual spend on the regular WE is $15k and income requirements are $80k annually. This one will have even higher requirements, it only pays back in cashback, and you get 5 lounge tickets. Honestly for the amount of spend you're going to be required to put on it the Amex Platinum is still a better deal; hell, even at "one card does all" status this isn't exactly the strongest compared to some of even the more standard WEs from big 5 banks.
You're kidding right? You are comparing $99AF to $499 AF (only with travel credit shenanigans)?

This of course would be better than AMEX plat for 99% of people as a one card solution.
1. $99 vs $499 AF
2. No acceptance issues
3. No FTF
4. Higher "other" category spend

And how would this card be weaker than other WE cards from the big 5 banks? The last 30 pages in the cap 1 travel aspire thread contains posts about people struggling to replace the 2% card because there is NO viable alternative. The best alternatives outside of churning are Scotia momentum VI, MBNA RWE, HSBC WE, BMO Cashback/WE, credit union cards, maybe AMEX Cobalt. Not a single person from that thread mentioned AMEX Plat. If this card materializes and has insurances similar to the cap1 world elite card, I will bet everyone from that thread will be on board with this card.

A no FTF master card with 2% across the board (at least on domestic spend) is hands down the best one card solution.

The only issue with this card is the likely $200k income requirement. Will it be enforced? I bet it will be at first. That's the only way to keep the average interchange fee down.
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Aug 13, 2019
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Well, that is interesting. Hopefully the requirements are not prohibitive.
Sr. Member
May 12, 2019
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mech9t5 wrote: You're kidding right? You are comparing $99AF to $499 AF (only with travel credit shenanigans)?

This of course would be better than AMEX plat for 99% of people as a one card solution.
1. $99 vs $499 AF
2. No acceptance issues
3. No FTF
4. Higher "other" category spend

And how would this card be weaker than other WE cards from the big 5 banks? The last 30 pages in the cap 1 travel aspire thread contains posts about people struggling to replace the 2% card because there is NO viable alternative. The best alternatives outside of churning are Scotia momentum VI, MBNA RWE, HSBC WE, BMO Cashback/WE, credit union cards, maybe AMEX Cobalt. Not a single person from that thread mentioned AMEX Plat. If this card materializes and has insurances similar to the cap1 world elite card, I will bet everyone from that thread will be on board with this card.

A no FTF master card with 2% across the board (at least on domestic spend) is hands down the best one card solution.

The only issue with this card is the likely $200k income requirement. Will it be enforced? I bet it will be at first. That's the only way to keep the average interchange fee down.
So you're saying it's good but 95% of Canadians can't get approved? Wow, seems like a great card. And this isn't even getting into the fact something relatively plebeian like the BMO WE exists, which is FYF and can be AF free as well with 1.5%ish rewards back. Plus, you're ignoring the spending requirements vs. the payback on the Amex Plat. Let's say the annual spend to maintain is $50k. I strongly suspect that a net of $900 cashback for that maintenance is worth <60k minimum of Amex MR you can get from the Plat or even most other Amex products.


I won't dispute the acceptance issues but will state the best card is the one you actually have. But hey, if people want this let them.
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Jun 15, 2005
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SpinifexV wrote: Well, that is interesting. Hopefully the requirements are not prohibitive.
“If” this card is ever released, I’m not looking forward to the pages of whining we will see regarding:
A) income requirement being too high
B) spending requirements being too high
C) people trying to justify why they don’t want the card

Such is life...
Deal Fanatic
Dec 16, 2005
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Cheapmaestro wrote: So you're saying it's good but 95% of Canadians can't get approved? Wow, seems like a great card. And this isn't even getting into the fact something relatively plebeian like the BMO WE exists, which is FYF and can be AF free as well with 1.5%ish rewards back. Plus, you're ignoring the spending requirements vs. the payback on the Amex Plat. Let's say the annual spend to maintain is $50k. I strongly suspect that a net of $900 cashback for that maintenance is worth <60k minimum of Amex MR you can get from the Plat or even most other Amex products.


I won't dispute the acceptance issues but will state the best card is the one you actually have. But hey, if people want this let them.
So your only argument for this Muse card being crap is because it's hard to get? Then why even bother bringing up world elite alternative? There are people who don't make $80k a year either. What about all those people who have crappy credit and can't get ANY credit card? Are you going to tell me that ALL credit cards are crap? Just because a guy with crappy credit can't get a credit card doesn't automatically make that card crap. It's such flawed logic.

Next, I'm sure there are a ton of households who can meet 200k requirement (using VIP cards as proxy - VIP requirement is household $200k or individual $200k). Think about this, a husband and wife team who are teachers with 10 years experience are already at $200k+. Are regular public school teachers part of the 5%? LOL.

Secondly, you think 60k MR points at the cost of $500 AF is a good deal? 1 MR = 0.01 so that would be a whopping $600 less $500 AF = $100 net. Last I checked $900 > $100. Even if you count 1MR=2c by transferring to an FFP that's still only $700. Your break even is 70k points. Let's go even further and assume you earned 70k MR on 50k spend (1.4MR per $). This is the break even point. You are no better off. In fact you are worse off if any of that spend was forex spend. This is the BEST case scenario for AMEX. Reality is there is a big concern about FFP devaluations so who knows if 1MR can still get 2c once travel resumes. Sure you can point to edge cases where you get crazy value for business class flights. If that's your game then of course you will choose AMEX.

Last, a free BMO WE is 1.5% cash back. The 0.5% difference makes up the $100 AF after only $20k spend. After that, the 2% card comes out ahead.

If you do the math, you can clearly see how difficult it is to get 2% return in today's environment. As I said in my first post, the only issue is $200k income requirement
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mech9t5 wrote: This of course would be better than AMEX plat for 99% of people as a one card solution.
You're forgetting that Amex has no high income requirement. With World Elite Mastercards having a minimum income requirement of $80k, expect the Muse cards to have something similar to Infinite Privilege cards, ~$200k. Anyone with $700, a clean credit report, and a pulse can get an Amex Platinum.
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Gtaphotog wrote: t will have all the same benefits as the world elite card plus 0% foreign transaction fee (with 0.5% cash back on foreign purchases), 5 free lounge passes, 5% cashback on Rogers products, 2% cash back on everything else. $99 AF
First to say it: How long before Rogers devalues this card??
Deal Addict
Jul 2, 2007
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If you can get this card, I'd say it's better than the Amex Plat. Is that even debatable? To someone who qualifies, it doesn't matter whether someone else can get it or not. Maybe on a macro-level, you could say it does (card isn't getting enough applicants due to high barriers for entry followed by devaluations, etc)... but it's really not the first thing that comes to mind, nor is it even guaranteed to happen.
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Aug 24, 2016
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Arkaine wrote: “If” this card is ever released, I’m not looking forward to the pages of whining we will see regarding:
A) income requirement being too high
B) spending requirements being too high
C) people trying to justify why they don’t want the card

Such is life...
You’ll never hear A.
That’s solved by lying about your income, which I’m sure more than 90% of the people have done to get WE.
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Aug 25, 2005
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i thought everyone on RFD was part of the 100K club?
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coolintheshade wrote: You’ll never hear A.
That’s solved by lying about your income, which I’m sure more than 90% of the people have done to get WE.
Haha fair enough. I always worry about that because when I applied for the Scotia Momentum card a few months ago I had to send in a paystub for verification.
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coolintheshade wrote: You’ll never hear A.
That’s solved by lying about your income, which I’m sure more than 90% of the people have done to get WE.
Image
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Dec 16, 2005
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Kiraly wrote: You're forgetting that Amex has no high income requirement. With World Elite Mastercards having a minimum income requirement of $80k, expect the Muse cards to have something similar to Infinite Privilege cards, ~$200k. Anyone with $700, a clean credit report, and a pulse can get an Amex Platinum.
I'm not forgetting that. I'm saying it is irrelevant for this comparison.
If you really want to bring in low income levels to compare a $700 AF card, sure.

If you can't qualify for Muse or WE, then most likely you can't afford to pay $700 AF for a credit card. If you don't even make $80k a year to qualify for WE yet you think you can make $50k spend on the card? Let's say your income is $60k a year. After tax it is around $3k per month. If rent/mortgage is $1k then you are really only doing a max of around $25k a year. Realistically it is under $20k

AMEX Plat is net $500 AF, $25k spend at 1.4MR / $ (as assumed in the previous example) = 35k MR. Let's value it at 2c. That is $700. You net $200.

Get a no fee 1% cash back card (like Brim) - 25k spend would be $250.

The profile of people applying for AMEX plat is higher income people who can afford to justify the $700 AF. That's why the income level is irrelevant. People who are customers of AMEX Plat are likely going to be the same target customer for Muse.
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I have HSBC WE and this is not an easy decision for me if this card is real. 5% on Rogers/Fido and 2% on everything are great, but HSBC WE is better on the followings:

- 3% on travel, vs. 2%
- 3%, 1.5% on FX, vs. 0.5%
- Net $49 AF, vs. $99
- 10% hotels discount on Expedia, vs. None

I already have Amex Platinum for lounge access, so I’m not considering the 5 lounge passes a benefit to me.

Also you have to spend 15K to keep your WE, and I suspect Muse to be approximately double of that amount (30K), which will be even harder to achieve, unless you trash all other cards, and obviously it’s not worth doing that for just a 2% card.
Amex Cobalt - MBNA RWE - Brim WE
Amex Platinum - Bonvoy Brilliant Amex - CIBC Aeroplan VIP
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BenK wrote: i thought everyone on RFD was part of the 100K club?
100k club?
I bet you eat Kraft dinner too don’t you? Face With Tears Of Joy
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coolintheshade wrote: 100k club?
I bet you eat Kraft dinner too don’t you? Face With Tears Of Joy
Kraft? Pffft. I'm not made of money. There are cheaper off-brand cheese noodles.
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Dec 16, 2005
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EdisonL299 wrote: I have HSBC WE and this is not an easy decision for me if this card is real. 5% on Rogers/Fido and 2% on everything are great, but HSBC WE is better on the followings:

- 3% on travel, vs. 2%
- 3%, 1.5% on FX, vs. 0.5%
- Net $49 AF, vs. $99
- 10% hotels discount on Expedia, vs. None

I already have Amex Platinum for lounge access, so I’m not considering the 5 lounge passes a benefit to me.

Also you have to spend 15K to keep your WE, and I suspect Muse to be approximately double of that amount (30K), which will be even harder to achieve, unless you trash all other cards, and obviously it’s not worth doing that for just a 2% card.
Yes, the 3% on travel is nice but it depends on your spend in other category vs travel.
Plus the bigger unknown is if this earn rate will continue for the HSBC WE card. Perhaps they are going to go the same route. Devalue HSBC WE and introduce HSBC Muse for a higher fee.

Personally, I'm interested in this Rogers card but I'm more interested to see what others will offer. BMO Muse? The world Elite already has pretty good insurances (I like that they cover you as long as a portion of the charge is made on the card). I also am able to get fee waivers through the bank unlimited plan. If they upped the earn rate and dropped the FTF, I would totally make it my 1 card. If they made the BMO Muse $250AF, that would work for me assuming I still get my $150 fee waiver.

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