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Savings analysis of Ductless vs Baseboard

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  • Dec 8th, 2019 5:07 am
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jan 25, 2008
2356 posts
2277 upvotes
Montréal

Savings analysis of Ductless vs Baseboard

I am thinking about installing 2 mini split units (basement and main floor) in a 1600sq ft cottage 1988.
The units will cost me about 2000$ (tax in) +500$ installation - 650$ govt incentive. I am trying to figure if this will save me money in Montreal? If so how much? I think I spend approx 1600$/yr almost exclusively with Baseboards. I was thinking maybe I can save 30% off my heating cost
46 replies
Jr. Member
Nov 2, 2015
181 posts
139 upvotes
Oakville
I'm not entirely sure how things work in Montreal, but $2500 for a two head system that heats and cools sounds very skeptical. It is likely the ductless units can only heat the home to -10 degrees at which point your auxiliary heat source world need to kick in (baseboards).

You could spend more money to get units that heat down to -25 degrees then you can forget the baseboard heaters for most of the winter, but keep them installed in case it does start to get extremely cold.

I don't even know contractors that would do side work to install for $2500 and do your rebates for you..
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11479 posts
6660 upvotes
Paris
To answer your question, ductless minisplit are up to 500% efficient. Model we put in my buddies place is 250% efficient, on average. Traditional electric heat is 99% efficient.

Edit: that also seems suspiciously cheap to me. Buddies unit was purchased by his HVAC installing relative at wholesale, we did all the work, had it vacuumed by a guy on the side and one unit was 1250 or 1300 all in.
Deal Fanatic
Feb 4, 2015
7919 posts
4045 upvotes
Canada, Eh!!
We, meaning parents had this installed, in AC version only many years ago as already had baseboards.

Worked well. Really need open concept area for it to work well so choose location well.

First contractor installed fan near front of house so had to get second contractor as that was code violation and not pleasing to look at. Correctly installed at back of house and that worked out great as less hosing and wires to install location... they made little bulkhead so no hose or wires seen plus pump to get water out.
2022: BOC raised 2 times and MCAP raised its prime next day.
2017 to 2018: BOC raised rates 5 times and MCAP raised its prime next day each time.
2020: BOC dropped rates 3 times and MCAP waited to drop its prime to include all 3 drops.
Deal Addict
Apr 14, 2007
2916 posts
405 upvotes
Montreal
I just installed a Daikin aurora unit in my basement granted it costs a lot more than what youre quoted but its cheaper in the long run. I have it set to 23C and my upstairs rooms are about 20C just from the heat in the basement

That heat in itself saves me from running 10 baseboard units at an avg 1500w each
Deal Fanatic
Jun 3, 2009
5384 posts
1245 upvotes
Montreal
thesubmitter wrote: I am thinking about installing 2 mini split units (basement and main floor) in a 1600sq ft cottage 1988.
The units will cost me about 2000$ (tax in) +500$ installation - 650$ govt incentive. I am trying to figure if this will save me money in Montreal? If so how much? I think I spend approx 1600$/yr almost exclusively with Baseboards. I was thinking maybe I can save 30% off my heating cost
No half decent contractor will install 2 split systems for 2500 before taxes including labour. I just added a central AC to my property after spending lots of time getting quotes and evaluating their plans.

Does that contractor is RBQ licensed or does that person have claims submit by previous customers? You really get what you pay for in HVAC where the quality of the installation is just as crucial as the quality of the equipment if not more.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jan 25, 2008
2356 posts
2277 upvotes
Montréal
Sogoodtobuy.ca check out open box 12000 BTU units. The installer is somebody I referred ppl to her I on RFD a while back, he does a a great job and I have worked with him in the past a lot

https://www.sogoodtobuy.ca/copy-of-1200 ... senl-12cd/ x 2
+ 750$ installation

So nobody has the actual numbers? Or can point to a historical savings?
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2005
3818 posts
299 upvotes
Ensure that it will work well in Canadian winters. From what I've read, it will work until around -10 degrees, and then the baseboard heaters will have to kick in. Not sure what units go to -25.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jan 25, 2008
2356 posts
2277 upvotes
Montréal
A lot of units advertise - 25, but I am not sure what the efficiency profile is. The installer told me I might save 20% at best but I am not sure if he is talking about on my entire bill or just heating portion
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 14, 2008
2236 posts
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Minden
thesubmitter wrote: A lot of units advertise - 25, but I am not sure what the efficiency profile is. The installer told me I might save 20% at best but I am not sure if he is talking about on my entire bill or just heating portion
You are better off purchasing one of the Senville Aura units as opposed to the Leto units if you are looking for heat. I purchased in August and installed it myself at the cottage. Working great so far, and it is WIFI connected so I turn it on Friday morning and by the time I get up north the cottage is nice and warm.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11479 posts
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Paris
kryton619 wrote: You are better off purchasing one of the Senville Aura units as opposed to the Leto units if you are looking for heat. I purchased in August and installed it myself at the cottage. Working great so far, and it is WIFI connected so I turn it on Friday morning and by the time I get up north the cottage is nice and warm.
Are they better? I’m thinking of getting 2 for the third floor bedrooms of our cottage. Always too hot or cold, depending on the season.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Jan 25, 2008
2356 posts
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Montréal
I bought 2 units from this place and they have been alright. Better value imo
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Dec 14, 2008
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Minden
Jerico wrote: Are they better? I’m thinking of getting 2 for the third floor bedrooms of our cottage. Always too hot or cold, depending on the season.
They (Aura) are better in that they are designed to produce heat to a lower outside temperature when compared to the Leto units. Install was easy, I purchased a set of gauges and a vacuum pump from Amazon and had no issues.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
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Paris
kryton619 wrote: They (Aura) are better in that they are designed to produce heat to a lower outside temperature when compared to the Leto units. Install was easy, I purchased a set of gauges and a vacuum pump from Amazon and had no issues.
I looked into buying a pump and gauges but they were a fortune. How much did you spend?
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Dec 14, 2008
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Minden
Jerico wrote: I looked into buying a pump and gauges but they were a fortune. How much did you spend?
I bought these gauges: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00LUZ ... UTF8&psc=1

This pump.... https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B06XRL ... UTF8&psc=1

This lineset cover.. https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07KWV ... UTF8&psc=1

This adapter... https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00D96 ... UTF8&psc=1

This wall mount bracket.. https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01L0J ... UTF8&psc=1
Deal Fanatic
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Dec 10, 2008
5025 posts
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I'm going with a heat pump & a few electric baseboards

My rationale is that baseboards are very cheap to install, have minimal maintenance and aren't impacted by weather.

The heat pump will take the brunt of the work, but if it's down for whatever reason (maintenance, damage, cold weather), at least my house won't freeze.
Let's hug it out
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11479 posts
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Paris
The pump is out of stock but just the gauge price makes me assume you spent 3 or 4 hundred when you could have gotten a pro in for less. Are you planning on installing more or did you turn the pump and gauges once you were done?
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Dec 14, 2008
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Minden
Jerico wrote: The pump is out of stock but just the gauge price makes me assume you spent 3 or 4 hundred when you could have gotten a pro in for less. Are you planning on installing more or did you turn the pump and gauges once you were done?
Keep in mind that I installed this in cottage country, and the choices and will to do a commissioning job was limited. I did phone a couple of local HVAC companies, and they wanted > $5,000 to supply and install a hyper heat unit and were not keen on starting up a unit that they did not supply and install. I am a licensed elevator mechanic, so a job like this is rather easy compared to installing an elevator in a high rise building. I tend to be anal, and in the past when I have had other trades to do work, I ended up going back afterwards and correcting what I perceive to be shoddy workmanship.

Now that I have these tools, I can help friends and family if and when they decide to install a unit.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11479 posts
6660 upvotes
Paris
kryton619 wrote: Keep in mind that I installed this in cottage country, and the choices and will to do a commissioning job was limited. I did phone a couple of local HVAC companies, and they wanted > $5,000 to supply and install a hyper heat unit and were not keen on starting up a unit that they did not supply and install. I am a licensed elevator mechanic, so a job like this is rather easy compared to installing an elevator in a high rise building. I tend to be anal, and in the past when I have had other trades to do work, I ended up going back afterwards and correcting what I perceive to be shoddy workmanship.

Now that I have these tools, I can help friends and family if and when they decide to install a unit.
I’m a window and door guy, so I feel you. I don’t think USING the stuff would be an issue, I just took exception to how much the equipment is vs how many times I would likely use it. I do plan on putting in 2 units at the cottage where installers will be very limited as you describe. So how much did you spend in the end?

We did a buddies but we had it 100% roughed in, including piping and electrical all done. Got a guy off shift from the local HVAC giant to flare and vac it for us.
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Dec 14, 2008
2236 posts
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Minden
Jerico wrote: I’m a window and door guy, so I feel you. I don’t think USING the stuff would be an issue, I just took exception to how much the equipment is vs how many times I would likely use it. I do plan on putting in 2 units at the cottage where installers will be very limited as you describe. So how much did you spend in the end?

We did a buddies but we had it 100% roughed in, including piping and electrical all done. Got a guy off shift from the local HVAC giant to flare and vac it for us.
It ended up costing me about $2,500 - $2,600 by the time I purchased a breaker for the panel, a disconnect to install near the outdoor unit, wire, plus the items that I listed above.

Are you planning on installing a dual zone unit? (Two indoor units connected to one outdoor unit)

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