Automotive

Second-generation Toyota GT86 greenlighted by bosses (in UK at least)

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Second-generation Toyota GT86 greenlighted by bosses (in UK at least)

Toyota has said that the GT86 coupé will be replaced with a new second-generation model developed in conjunction with Subaru.

The new version of the four-cylinder lightweight four-seater will sit beneath the recently launched six-cylinder Supra two-seater in an expanded line-up of Toyota sports cars, which will also make use of the firm’s GR Sport brand.

Following the launch of the Supra, there were reports that the GT86 may not be replaced.

Confirming that Toyota intends to develop a new GT86, European marketing boss Matt Harrison said it has been “a successful ‘halo’ product for us”. He added: “Supra is not to replace that car. They are for different audiences and are different products. We see a situation where they will sit alongside each other.”

The original GT86, launched in 2011, was co-developed with Subaru alongside the BRZ. It uses Subaru’s flat-four Boxer engine and transmission, and Harrison said it was “a safe assumption” that the next-generation model would retain those links. Toyota has used partnerships to help offset the high costs of developing relatively low-volume sports car models, with the Supra developed alongside the BMW Z4.

Toyota sees the GT86 and similar sports car models as powerful brand ambassadors, and company boss Akio Toyoda recently expressed a desire to build a full family of performance machines, in particular with its hot GR Sport line.

Speaking about the GT86, Harrison added: “Its role is not one particularly about volume globally. It’s about adding excitement to the brand and emotional appeal.

“The GT86 has definitely been successful for us in achieving that, particularly in markets like the UK.”


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... ted-bosses
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Twin turbo?
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vkizzle wrote: Twin turbo?
Haha not likely. My gut feeling is an updated Subaru boxer engine with about ... 225HP, stiffer everything around and still a 2+2.
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vkizzle wrote: Twin turbo?
Toyota will turn it into hybrid before putting turbos on it.
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By "sit beneath" Supra they mean it will continue to use some atmo wheezer engine. Forever doomed to remain the "car that could have been". I actually wonder if Subaru doesn't want to make a higher-performance version but are prevented from doing so because of contractual obligations?

Well at lest they can fix that 2000s interior now, right?
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Jan 10, 2005
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As long as the Supra is not available with a manual, this will still be the better car IMHO.

I just read the base Supra will be available in foreign markets with 197 hp, which is LESS than the 206hp planned for the 86.

Sounds suicidal, but rumors are the base Supra will be the one to get, as the motor mounts somehow will coincide with the mounts of a 2JZ engine... bring on the manual transmission, and I might just start fishing through the couch cushions...
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MANGLER wrote: I just read the base Supra will be available in foreign markets with 197 hp, which is LESS than the 206hp planned for the 86.
Current 86/BRZ is 205 hp...so its essentially already there. As for the power numbers of the 4-cylinder Supra turbo, are you sure you're reading the numbers correctly? Lot of reports of it being 190kW which is about 255 hp. Essentially the Supra will have the 330i's engine, and the 330i is faster than a 86/BRZ so...with the Supra being nearly the same weight but perhaps more aerodynamic it should theoretically be a bit quicker than that.
ES_Revenge wrote: By "sit beneath" Supra they mean it will continue to use some atmo wheezer engine. Forever doomed to remain the "car that could have been". I actually wonder if Subaru doesn't want to make a higher-performance version but are prevented from doing so because of contractual obligations?

Well at lest they can fix that 2000s interior now, right?
From what I could tell from interviews from both the Toyota team and the Subaru team, when it came to the engine development, Subaru's original idea was simply to stick a standard FB20 and be done with it. Toyota wanted a high output NA engine. To prevent inter-company fighting which was a big problem before the car even really started, it was decided all teams from both companies dedicated to this car were unified under one vision and thus one team despite their respective companies. Primary leadership in the end was Toyota, since this project wouldn't exist without Toyota's insistence to collab. However that FB20 engine was insufficient for the power goals. To resolve this specific problem though, even though the FA20 is a heavily redone FB20, Toyota in order to achieve their 100hp/L target had to provide the D4-S system which the Toyota higher ups really were unhappy about showing Subaru any aspect of it.

Only through those interviews did we even see that the possible engine for the 86/BRZ could've been even weaker at 146 hp out of the FB20 if Subaru had full direction.
- Jegan V
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I can see them enhancing the current chasis by 10%, throwing a new body onto it, adding a new interior and finding a way to get the car up to about 220hp. Cant imagine they can put together a profitable business case and start from the ground up again. As everyone has said, the current chassis is fine and should last another 2 to 3 generations with minor improvements. It just needs a better interior and more power...
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JeganV wrote: Current 86/BRZ is 205 hp...so its essentially already there. As for the power numbers of the 4-cylinder Supra turbo, are you sure you're reading the numbers correctly? Lot of reports of it being 190kW which is about 255 hp. Essentially the Supra will have the 330i's engine, and the 330i is faster than a 86/BRZ so...with the Supra being nearly the same weight but perhaps more aerodynamic it should theoretically be a bit faster.

https://jalopnik.com/the-lowest-four-cy ... 1831734785

One article, but seems legit. Anyway not really the point, if rumours are true and they made the base model 2 jz ready, it does not matter what it come with from the factory.
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MANGLER wrote: https://jalopnik.com/the-lowest-four-cy ... 1831734785

One article, but seems legit. Anyway not really the point, if rumours are true and they made the base model 2 jz ready, it does not matter what it come with from the factory.
Checked out the Gazoo site and it does appear Japan's SZ trim will have an even weaker 4-cylinder turbo. I guess Toyota is producing another Japan-only trim level for tuners, in this case is engine is almost guaranteed to be tossed out. Now I'm curious if its going to come with steel wheels, an unpainted bumper, no stereo, etc.
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I’d take this in manual over an automatic snoozer Supra.
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This is good news.

Hopefully the back seats can accommodate two average height adults.
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JeganV wrote: Checked out the Gazoo site and it does appear Japan's SZ trim will have an even weaker 4-cylinder turbo. I guess Toyota is producing another Japan-only trim level for tuners, in this case is engine is almost guaranteed to be tossed out. Now I'm curious if its going to come with steel wheels, an unpainted bumper, no stereo, etc.
That 190HP Supra is the original trigger for this no 2nd gen BRZ/FR-S talk.
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ES_Revenge wrote: By "sit beneath" Supra they mean it will continue to use some atmo wheezer engine. Forever doomed to remain the "car that could have been". I actually wonder if Subaru doesn't want to make a higher-performance version but are prevented from doing so because of contractual obligations?

Well at lest they can fix that 2000s interior now, right?
Toyota specifies an NA engine, Subaru did express confusion on why since they have a perfectly good 2.0 turbo available.

Part of the reason the last Supra failed is because of its ever increasing price tag. So this is fine for what it is, an affordable fun car, a turbo would mean everything needs to be beefed up and probably cost 15k more.
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alanbrenton wrote: This is good news.

Hopefully the back seats can accommodate two average height adults.
It will
Once you lop off their legs
Just like in the current one
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alanbrenton wrote: This is good news.

Hopefully the back seats can accommodate two average height adults.
No way
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JeganV wrote: Current 86/BRZ is 205 hp...so its essentially already there. [...]


From what I could tell from interviews from both the Toyota team and the Subaru team, when it came to the engine development, Subaru's original idea was simply to stick a standard FB20 and be done with it. Toyota wanted a high output NA engine. To prevent inter-company fighting which was a big problem before the car even really started, it was decided all teams from both companies dedicated to this car were unified under one vision and thus one team despite their respective companies. Primary leadership in the end was Toyota, since this project wouldn't exist without Toyota's insistence to collab. However that FB20 engine was insufficient for the power goals. To resolve this specific problem though, even though the FA20 is a heavily redone FB20, Toyota in order to achieve their 100hp/L target had to provide the D4-S system which the Toyota higher ups really were unhappy about showing Subaru any aspect of it.

With the current debacle of engine valve spring failure/recall/engine blown up after recall, shouldn't Toyota develop its own engine? (How much it cost for the recall/compensation to owners? Is Toyota going to chargeback to Subaru?)
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Bb0231 wrote: With the current debacle of engine valve spring failure/recall/engine blown up after recall, shouldn't Toyota develop its own engine? (How much it cost for the recall/compensation to owners? Is Toyota going to chargeback to Subaru?)
The goal of the FT86 project with regards to engine was to seek the ideal engine types to get low center of gravity as this is something that can only be achieved by the manufacturer and can't be easily modded. Only two made any sense being the flat engine or the rotary. The last time Toyota made a flat engine was in the 1960s, a really tiny flat 2, definitely of no use today. EP32K2 is correct to note Toyota is one of the least experienced automakers with regards to performance engines. The vast majority of any Toyota performance engines involved Yamaha doing either a good amount of the work or sometimes the near entirety with Toyota supervision. Toyota does have the money if they wished to burn it on such endeavors but financially it makes no sense especially if the engine is a one off. There's also no guarantees a Toyota performance engine would be any good, even if one uses the 2JZ engine as their example, no modern Toyota will utilize things like a cast iron block and overbuild an engine to such a degree. As for chargeback, no, its a joint project they're both in it together. All issues and costs are shared for the FRS/86, its likely financially less painful than most other recalls they've had to do. Toyota also has a pretty fat warranty budget especially when they can do things like the Tacoma frame recalls, twice in fact for those trucks.

As for the valve spring recall. If one wished to look deeper into it, while Subaru is taking a lot of the brunt, the problem is the valve springs might fracture under stress. Incidentally, Kobe steel is under scrutiny for falsifying data with regards to their aluminum meaning some items will fall out of spec prior to being caught in 2017. Kobe steel is a large supplier to the majority of the Japanese auto industry, Subaru included. I wouldn't be surprised if these valve springs are linked to Kobe. If such an event was true, then Subaru really was put in a lousy position because there's no easy way to find out until failures start occurring. If not however, then Subaru is bearing the full brunt of this recall and they're eating their mistake as this was voluntary.

Due to the recall causing more problems than its solving, anybody with an affected Subaru model should simply wait, especially if your engine is operating fine. Due to the much larger disparity of FRSes going bad, the reasons to wait is even higher.
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JeganV wrote:

As for the valve spring recall. If one wished to look deeper into it, while Subaru is taking a lot of the brunt, the problem is the valve springs might fracture under stress. Incidentally, Kobe steel is under scrutiny for falsifying data with regards to their aluminum meaning some items will fall out of spec prior to being caught in 2017. Kobe steel is a large supplier to the majority of the Japanese auto industry, Subaru included. I wouldn't be surprised if these valve springs are linked to Kobe. If such an event was true, then Subaru really was put in a lousy position because there's no easy way to find out until failures start occurring. If not however, then Subaru is bearing the full brunt of this recall and they're eating their mistake as this was voluntary.
IIRC Subaru also mentioned improper design regarding the engine recall. If, like you said, it's caused by Kobe Steel, I wonder why there's no other Japanese automakers have yet to issue recalls about valve springs????? Any thought?

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