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Shopify PERMANENTLY moves to WFH (work from home) model

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  • Jul 31st, 2020 3:37 pm
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[OP]
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Aug 26, 2001
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Shopify PERMANENTLY moves to WFH (work from home) model

Following in the footsteps of Facebook, Twitter (so far), another one is Shopify.
If the entire tech industry moves to WFH en masse, there will definitely be ripple effects, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

Also FYI, Shopify is Canada's most valuable company by market cap.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/s ... -1.5578614
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Dec 11, 2003
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I heard about this but I'm confused as to why there needed to be an article about this.
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Apr 14, 2017
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ds2chan wrote: I heard about this but I'm confused as to why there needed to be an article about this.
LOL. OP is bored.
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FreshCo wrote: LOL. OP is bored.
lol.. No no.. not a thread. An article from CBC and Bloomberg. Would this affect the general public or the tech sector somehow?
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[OP]
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ds2chan wrote: Would this affect the general public or the tech sector somehow?
well yes, like I said, a large chunk of the high-tech industry will move in this direction, which will have dramatic ripple effects in many other ways.
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konfusion666 wrote: well yes, like I said, a large chunk of the high-tech industry will move in this direction, which will have dramatic ripple effects in many other ways.
Sorry, I meant why did anybody even need to write this article in the first place? Without the article, would the general public or tech sector be affected in some way? Since somebody felt that the article should be published then maybe it's only because somebody thought that this was interesting only?

I don't think the tech industry would rush to keep everybody working from home. It's easier to collaborate in the office. For the near future I think most would work from home just because of the pandemic. But once everybody feels safe we'll all slowly trickle back into the office.
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Dec 11, 2013
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I don't see it lasting long term once real-estate comes down after this mess. Productivity is going down and to be honest, meetings are a mess.
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Jun 27, 2006
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It's interesting. The companies will save a lot on real estate costs but impacts the culture of the company. But if it means no more pot lucks, I am ok with that.
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Dec 20, 2004
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Like I've pointed out before, the more that companies move towards WFH, the more they will realize they can just outsource those positions to cheaper countries. Particularly as the quality of internet in developing countries increases, along with english fluency. This may be temporary good news for those looking to avoid long commutes, but in the long term its likely very bad news.
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Sep 7, 2009
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gei wrote: Like I've pointed out before, the more that companies move towards WFH, the more they will realize they can just outsource those positions to cheaper countries. Particularly as the quality of internet in developing countries increases, along with english fluency. This may be temporary good news for those looking to avoid long commutes, but in the long term its likely very bad news.
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gei wrote: Like I've pointed out before, the more that companies move towards WFH, the more they will realize they can just outsource those positions to cheaper countries. Particularly as the quality of internet in developing countries increases, along with english fluency. This may be temporary good news for those looking to avoid long commutes, but in the long term its likely very bad news.
Have you tried working with a team in another office? What about when they are other side of the world? You need those personal relationships in order to get people to work together. The reason why wfh is working so well right now is because people already built those relationships in the office. That won't be the case if everyone was hired remote and nobody knows each other.
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cnfjti3 wrote: Have you tried working with a team in another office? What about when they are other side of the world? You need those personal relationships in order to get people to work together. The reason why wfh is working so well right now is because people already built those relationships in the office. That won't be the case if everyone was hired remote and nobody knows each other.
And that also won't be the case if no one goes in to an office any more. Relationships will fall apart and as more staff are hired and let go (and move on to other companies), those relationships will become moot.

Yes I have tried working with teams in other offices. The issue is never that they are in a different country, it's simply that they are remote. That was the biggest negative factor. It doesn't really matter if they are in another office in Halifax or another office in Bangalore.

It doesn't matter how well employees get along with each other - what matters to a company is the bottom line. If they can save money by hiring abroad and still maintain productivity then I assure you they will.
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gei wrote: It doesn't matter how well employees get along with each other - what matters to a company is the bottom line. If they can save money by hiring abroad and still maintain productivity then I assure you they will.
If productivity is maintained then yes they will. Lots of companies have already been offshoring for the past two decades for jobs that are simple to offshore.

The problem in the technology sector that's been preventing mass offshoring is that the sector is driven by innovation. Innovation isn't driven by a bunch of people remotely working with others they barely know. Innovation has been driven mostly in technology hubs where there is a high concentration of people building their ideas together.

You won't try to build a startup with someone on the other side of the world. You would with friends. Apply that on a much bigger scale and that will shed some light on why there still such a high demand for people in tech in north america instead of in eastern europe or asia.
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maple1 wrote: It's interesting. The companies will save a lot on real estate costs but impacts the culture of the company. But if it means no more pot lucks, I am ok with that.
Oh you're probably the guy that just brings in a costco rotiserie chicken and call it a day.
Then theres bag of chips + 2 litre pop guy.
And 5 ladies who bring in some super crappy cake that taste like nothing but icing sugar.
There will be one ethnic food thats way too spicy and all the white peeps be like 'aw daymn thats spicy'
'spicy? that is only half the spice i usually use!'

just kidding... always a hidden foodies who does something nice and it makes up for everyone else. With a few decent salads, pasta, rice dishes... it works out in the end.
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gei wrote: Like I've pointed out before, the more that companies move towards WFH, the more they will realize they can just outsource those positions to cheaper countries. Particularly as the quality of internet in developing countries increases, along with english fluency. This may be temporary good news for those looking to avoid long commutes, but in the long term its likely very bad news.
It's not even outsourcing to cheaper countries... try outsourcing to cheaper cities! In the US, pay in a region for in demand jobs is often dictated by salary surveys across various geographical areas and the groupped together into 19 different salary zones so the same job can be at vastly different salary scales depending on where you live - ie a programmer with a particular skill set in SFO might get $150,000 per year while that same programmer in Boise, ID, might get $110,000 or less.

FB's Zuck basically said as much when he stated that if any one who is working from home moves out of the region that they were working at the office in may get their wages CUT due to the differences in wages of the region. I suspect this has less to do with offices but more to do with trying to cut the salary expenses.
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cnfjti3 wrote: Have you tried working with a team in another office? What about when they are other side of the world? You need those personal relationships in order to get people to work together. The reason why wfh is working so well right now is because people already built those relationships in the office. That won't be the case if everyone was hired remote and nobody knows each other.
Exactly.
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cnfjti3 wrote:
Have you tried working with a team in another office? What about when they are other side of the world? You need those personal relationships in order to get people to work together. The reason why wfh is working so well right now is because people already built those relationships in the office. That won't be the case if everyone was hired remote and nobody knows each other.
craftsman wrote:
Exactly.
You do not need those personal relationships in order to do your job well, your paid to deliver a value-add service to the organization for a acceptable market rate. As someone whose been WFH for one of the big finance companies (prior Covid-19), we have no issues with working with our overseas counterparts in India or people in other provinces (we've never met anyone). The real reason wfh works well is because people understand their team and deliverables. Working alongside other teams to get that done and done efficiently comes down to the company culture.
[OP]
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Aug 26, 2001
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UrbanPoet wrote: Oh you're probably the guy that just brings in a costco rotiserie chicken and call it a day.
Then theres bag of chips + 2 litre pop guy.
And 5 ladies who bring in some super crappy cake that taste like nothing but icing sugar.
There will be one ethnic food thats way too spicy and all the white peeps be like 'aw daymn thats spicy'
'spicy? that is only half the spice i usually use!'
WELL PLAYED SIR, WELL PLAYED.

However, you screwed up. You forgot about the BROWN guy who does nothing but bring SAMOSAS from Samosa King!
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Jan 12, 2011
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Toad99 wrote: You do not need those personal relationships in order to do your job well, your paid to deliver a value-add service to the organization for a acceptable market rate. As someone whose been WFH for one of the big finance companies (prior Covid-19), we have no issues with working with our overseas counterparts in India or people in other provinces (we've never met anyone). The real reason wfh works well is because people understand their team and deliverables. Working alongside other teams to get that done and done efficiently comes down to the company culture.
If your job has clear responsibilities, your role is well defined, and the job is really straightforward, sure. Lots of jobs in the tech industry are not as well defined.

Products and features take a ton of collaboration to conceptualize and build. If you're a new software developer who's job is to build according to some well defined spec, yeah there's no harm in you working remotely. If you're a pm, architect, or even a senior developer, most of your time has to be spent collaborating with your cross functional teams to drive consensus towards what to work on, and how to work on them.
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Toad99 wrote: You do not need those personal relationships in order to do your job well, your paid to deliver a value-add service to the organization for a acceptable market rate. As someone whose been WFH for one of the big finance companies (prior Covid-19), we have no issues with working with our overseas counterparts in India or people in other provinces (we've never met anyone). The real reason wfh works well is because people understand their team and deliverables. Working alongside other teams to get that done and done efficiently comes down to the company culture.
Personal relationships are the difference between a team that works and one that works well especially cross teams. There are countless times where I was able to make one phone call, drop a quick note, or drop by someone's desk and was able to get something done for a customer that others have tried but found impossible. The difference was that I had built and invested in developing personal relationships with the other party so they were willing to make an exception for me where they were not willing to do so for others because they didn't know them.

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