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Should RFD accept firearms deals?

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 20th, 2020 12:32 pm

Poll: Should RFD accept firearms deals?

  • Total votes: 83. You have voted on this poll.
Yes
 
46
55%
No
 
37
45%
[OP]
Penalty Box
User avatar
Apr 10, 2011
10118 posts
18757 upvotes
Montreal

Should RFD accept firearms deals?

Obviously by starting this poll, that puts me in the "No" camp.
Although some firearms are legal in Canada and the Montreal reality is different than the one in Churchill, I have always felt uneasy whenever I saw a firearm or ammunition deal on RFD.

Here is RFD decision on the matter.

TL;DR

"... we've decided to temporarily move all new firearm deals to a megathread within the Ongoing Deal Discussion forum."

I disagree with that insensitive decision.
A deal on a firearm is not like a deal on a can of soup, a TV or a cruise.
IMO, if RFD keeps accommodating firearms deals, it's condoning it.
Firearm/ammunition deals should not be permitted at all on RFD.

Let's try NOT to turn the discussion into a FOR or AGAINST firearms but on whether or not it should be part of our RFD community.

RFD should not be generating revenues on the sale of firearms through referral links.
37 replies
Deal Fanatic
Mar 21, 2010
6558 posts
3692 upvotes
Toronto
I've never owned a firearm, but I think they should be allowed. Personally I think all legal deals should be allowed, for the most part.

The problem is that with controversial topics, people don't stick to the deal. You get people upvoting every firearms deal because they love firearms or the ability to own one, or downvoting every firearms deal because they don't agree with them. I think those are the actions that should be addressed. In the same bucket you have Apple vs. Android and a whole host of other situations where most of the voting and discussion really doesn't have much to do with whether the product is good value for the price. People who vote or comment because they're a cheerleader for or have a bone to pick with the product or the existence of a market for it generally are the ones who should have those privileges removed. OP's statement "Let's try NOT to turn the discussion into a FOR or AGAINST firearms" is a good one and should apply rigorously to every deal.

Personally I don't agree with hiding, banning or otherwise making less accessible products and deals that people argue about or are likely to get off-topic. To me that's just the website throwing its hands up and saying we're not good enough to keep our own house in order. It's not a good look.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 16, 2009
6134 posts
6443 upvotes
GTA
^ this is so well said. Too many cheerleaders are bogging things down. In relation to that and the guns deal thread, there is a user who is abusing the Signature rules with a 100+ line politicized screed on why guns are legal. I feel that's exactly what you're talking about, and definitely creates an optics issue.
c'mon get happy!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jan 9, 2011
14763 posts
19671 upvotes
Vancouver
Manatus wrote: I've never owned a firearm, but I think they should be allowed. Personally I think all legal deals should be allowed, for the most part.

The problem is that with controversial topics, people don't stick to the deal. You get people upvoting every firearms deal because they love firearms or the ability to own one, or downvoting every firearms deal because they don't agree with them. I think those are the actions that should be addressed. In the same bucket you have Apple vs. Android and a whole host of other situations where most of the voting and discussion really doesn't have much to do with whether the product is good value for the price. People who vote or comment because they're a cheerleader for or have a bone to pick with the product or the existence of a market for it generally are the ones who should have those privileges removed. OP's statement "Let's try NOT to turn the discussion into a FOR or AGAINST firearms" is a good one and should apply rigorously to every deal.

Personally I don't agree with hiding, banning or otherwise making less accessible products and deals that people argue about or are likely to get off-topic. To me that's just the website throwing its hands up and saying we're not good enough to keep our own house in order. It's not a good look.
Fully agree. Just watch what happens when someone posts a deal on a vegetarian or vegan product. Boy oh boy, does that ever bring out the downvoters who somehow believe that the existence of vegan products is a threat to their very being. I would like to see neither vegetarian/vegan threads nor firearms threads banned, just because there are RFDers who insist on turning the thread political. RFD mods can and should step in.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 21, 2010
6558 posts
3692 upvotes
Toronto
Kiraly wrote: Fully agree. Just watch what happens when someone posts a deal on a vegetarian or vegan product. Boy oh boy, does that ever bring out the downvoters who somehow believe that the existence of vegan products is a threat to their very being. I would like to see neither vegetarian/vegan threads nor firearms threads banned, just because there are RFDers who insist on turning the thread political. RFD mods can and should step in.
I guess I shouldn't say controversial, there's nothing controversial about being vegetarian or many of the other things that this applies to. Try posting a deal about "regular" razors, for example. RFD is great for being able to provide almost expert-level advice about many things, but the downside of that is that we have people who are extremely opinionated about very specific topics. It's not even hidden either, go into a firearms deal (or I guess, the way they used to be), and you'd have a bunch of people proudly stating "gun deal, upvoted", or the opposite, without any attempt to engage in whether the actual deal is worth considering or not.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Nov 16, 2004
23664 posts
11749 upvotes
Toronto
It's a legal product. RFD has moved it off "the main page" if you will by putting it in the Ongoing Discussion. Only those who really want the deal, will find it (that's with a lot of things in the Ongoing Discussion).
It's sold in stores, they are legal. I don't like guns, I don't own a gun and I don't think I ever will, but that doesn't mean I can't accept that there's a hobby around guns and "collectors" so deals around that realm are not unimaginable. You can put this in the same category as other items that are sold but no publicly loved or discussed, you can imagine.
RedFlagDeals Addict - 2008 Nominee for Most Helpful User
Wash your car at Petro-Canada? Think again! Car damaged and nobody cares
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 16, 2009
6134 posts
6443 upvotes
GTA
I've seen posts in Hot Deals on condoms or vibrators and whatnot, and sometimes they suddenly
disappear. So what are the rules for that, removal or bounce to Ongoing Deals? If they are removed completely, that just perpetuates the silly attitude that 'guns is ok, but not the sex stuff'. If RFD is a puritanical think tank, then heck yeah, guns should be removed too. I don't want my kids exposed to the dangers of gun violence, it scares me!
In seriousness, I'm not anti-gun under certain situations. But I do believe there are too many who happily flaunt being able to, and then push that down everyone's throat when given a forum. Yet they never see the other side of the same coin. Remove the forum, remove the problem.
c'mon get happy!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jan 9, 2011
14763 posts
19671 upvotes
Vancouver
BernardRyder wrote: I've seen posts in Hot Deals on condoms or vibrators and whatnot, and sometimes they suddenly
disappear. So what are the rules for that, removal or bounce to Ongoing Deals? If they are removed completely, that just perpetuates the silly attitude that 'guns is ok, but not the sex stuff'. If RFD is a puritanical think tank, then heck yeah, guns should be removed too. I don't want my kids exposed to the dangers of gun violence, it scares me!
Agree. Yes sex is an adult topic, but so is liquor, and nobody seems to have a problem with LCBO and other booze threads.

RFD rule: Do not post inappropriate content (anything illegal, overly graphic/sexual or non-PG)
It's a shame how RFD lumps sex topics in with illegal stuff, but it's just a reflection of the sex-negative culture that is pervasive in North America.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 16, 2009
6134 posts
6443 upvotes
GTA
Kiraly wrote: Agree. Yes sex is an adult topic, but so is liquor, and nobody seems to have a problem with LCBO and other booze threads.

RFD rule: Do not post inappropriate content (anything illegal, overly graphic/sexual or non-PG)
It's a shame how RFD lumps sex topics in with illegal stuff, but it's just a reflection of the sex-negative culture that is pervasive in North America.
That's crazy and you're exactly right, we embrace a puritanical viewpoint so happily in North America. So firearms get a special safety zone and treatment, but not the sex stuff. I guess now we know which rights and freedoms take precedence.

We need to ban firearms discussions and deals. It's an adult topic, calls attention to a lifestyle a majority of Canadians don't live, and some underaged person might be exposed to it.
Don't agree then please replace firearms with adult-themed deals and explain the difference...
c'mon get happy!
Deal Fanatic
Mar 21, 2010
6558 posts
3692 upvotes
Toronto
BernardRyder wrote: We need to ban firearms discussions and deals. It's an adult topic, calls attention to a lifestyle a majority of Canadians don't live, and some underaged person might be exposed to it.
Don't agree then please replace firearms with adult-themed deals and explain the difference...
None of them should be banned. Why is this website being concerned about an under-aged audience when it's useless for non-adults? I get about not wanting people being rude, aggressive, dropping f-bombs everywhere etc. - but in terms of "adult" topics, this website is about spending, credit cards, investing, buying houses and cars, maintaining your home, meeting up to sell things to strangers, discussing how to use expensive things like cameras, etc. There's nothing for kids here.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 16, 2009
6134 posts
6443 upvotes
GTA
Manatus wrote: None of them should be banned. Why is this website being concerned about an under-aged audience when it's useless for non-adults? I get about not wanting people being rude, aggressive, dropping f-bombs everywhere etc. - but in terms of "adult" topics, this website is about spending, credit cards, investing, buying houses and cars, maintaining your home, meeting up to sell things to strangers, discussing how to use expensive things like cameras, etc. There's nothing for kids here.
Not disagreeing at all, and I wouldn't consider RFD as a place kids are likely to visit either. I'm saying to hide one completely legal adult-themed topic and have another (shielded) one makes no sense.
c'mon get happy!
Banned
Feb 7, 2005
4498 posts
1186 upvotes
Legal item . I doubt many here will post many firearms . I doubt many modertors know much about guns . So there would be confusion as to what is legal and illegal now . But I vote to allow listings.
<sig removed> by moderators . Yet no moderator told me they removed or why ?
Deal Expert
User avatar
Nov 15, 2004
20315 posts
4180 upvotes
Toronto
People get stabbed to death all the time, and kitchen equipment deals are still advertised. I say let the gun deals stay.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 16, 2009
6134 posts
6443 upvotes
GTA
Piro21 wrote: People get stabbed to death all the time, and kitchen equipment deals are still advertised. I say let the gun deals stay.
Uh huh. Kitchen equipment is sold under intent to be used in food prep, yet being stabbed isn't synonymous with having been done so with a kitchen knife. Now try that statement with guns.
c'mon get happy!
[OP]
Penalty Box
User avatar
Apr 10, 2011
10118 posts
18757 upvotes
Montreal
Piro21 wrote: People get stabbed to death all the time, and kitchen equipment deals are still advertised. I say let the gun deals stay.
Can you see the difference in the amount of damage that could be done in 10 seconds with a legal semi-automatic weapon and a kitchen knife?
No need to reply, it's a rhetorical question.
Member
Jan 29, 2020
498 posts
472 upvotes
There are millions of licensed firearms owners in the country. They are highly vetted and less likely to commit a crime than the general public, or even police officers. Many are police officers, or members of the Forces, with their own private firearms. If you don't want to go through the licensing process and buy one, don't open the thread. Respect that decent people can take a different view.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Nov 15, 2004
20315 posts
4180 upvotes
Toronto
BernardRyder wrote: Uh huh. Kitchen equipment is sold under intent to be used in food prep, yet being stabbed isn't synonymous with having been done so with a kitchen knife. Now try that statement with guns.
Guns are intended to be used in target sports and hunting animals, and being stabbed is synonymous with knives of all kinds.
Temporel wrote: Can you see the difference in the amount of damage that could be done in 10 seconds with a legal semi-automatic weapon and a kitchen knife?
No need to reply, it's a rhetorical question.
Guns are more damaging, but knives are completely uncontrolled and anyone who wants one to do damage can get one at any time.

This is a derail though. Guns are legal, just like other dangerous equipment sold in this country like cars and power tools. All of those still show up in deal threads here.
Deal Fanatic
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Jun 16, 2009
6134 posts
6443 upvotes
GTA
Cashforlife wrote: There are millions of licensed firearms owners in the country. They are highly vetted and less likely to commit a crime than the general public, or even police officers. Many are police officers, or members of the Forces, with their own private firearms. If you don't want to go through the licensing process and buy one, don't open the thread. Respect that decent people can take a different view.
No doubt on that whatsoever from me. But read the second post to see what the real issue is IMO. A lot of people on RFD work to instigate others and spread ignorance in threads they have no business in. And a lot only responds to defend their special interest topic. These actions prevent a respectful community.

If mods aren't responding fast enough, maybe we need more people to speak up when others are being asshats. Especially if the others are being detrimental to our Special Interest. In other words, less spectating more educating.
c'mon get happy!
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 16, 2009
6134 posts
6443 upvotes
GTA
Piro21 wrote: Guns are intended to be used in target sports and hunting animals, and being stabbed is synonymous with knives of all kinds.
Of course guns can be used for that, yes. To argue that is why firearms came into existence is either a revisionist fallacy or a way to prevent any open and logical discussion.
And we get it, knives and cars and Dollarama t-shirts and everything listed on RFD can be used to kill, yes. That does derail the real issue brought up by the OP.
c'mon get happy!
Member
Jan 29, 2020
498 posts
472 upvotes
BernardRyder wrote: Of course guns can be used for that, yes. To argue that is why firearms came into existence is either a revisionist fallacy or a way to prevent any open and logical discussion.
And we get it, knives and cars and Dollarama t-shirts and everything listed on RFD can be used to kill, yes. That does derail the real issue brought up by the OP.
The Global Positioning System (GPS) was designed to direct intercontinental ballistic missiles to targets in Russia. It was all about incinerating millions of people.

But there can be peaceful uses of it too, like directing you to Starbucks so you can have a nice soy latte.

You should try to develop some insight by talking to target shooters in your community. Target shooting is a complex skill that is developed over years of training. It involves the science of exterior ballistics, mindfulness, optics, calculations you do in your head, totally safe practices, very precise construction of cartridges with expensive tooling, and many other factors. This sport is safer than ping pong in terms of injuries, way safer than hockey.

People are whipping up hate against a group that has caused no trouble to anyone. Remember, if the government can confiscate your legally owned firearms with a single press conference, they can take anything you own. So be careful about supporting this. Just respect that there are people who take a different view, and understand that there is no disproportionate risk that doesn't also exist with alcohol, swimming pools, 5000 lb pickup trucks, Corvettes that go 200 mph.

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