Travel

[SIGN and SHARE] Federal Parliament Petition for Airline Refunds (e-2604 - Transportation)

Deal Addict
Jan 26, 2016
2240 posts
2272 upvotes
Toronto, ON

[SIGN and SHARE] Federal Parliament Petition for Airline Refunds (e-2604 - Transportation)

LINK TO PETITION

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Peti ... ion=e-2604

Petition to the Government of Canada
Whereas:
  • Thousands of Canadian consumers have had their trips cancelled because of border closures and the lockdowns put in place to limit the spread of COVID-19;
  • Thousands of these consumers are being given travel credits instead of refunds by air carriers and tour operators;
  • Many consumers are currently experiencing financial hardship as a result of reduced income or job loss due to the pandemic;
  • These travel credits come with restrictive terms and conditions, including that they must be used within 24 months, that they are non-transferable or that they do not provide any price guarantee;
  • Many consumers will not be able to use these credits within the time limits imposed by air carriers due to financial or health problems or the fact that the risks related to COVID-19 have not yet been eliminated; and
  • Forcing consumers to accept these travel credits contravenes both the Civil Code of Québec with respect to the restitution of prestations in case of superior force and Quebec’ Consumer Protection Act with respect to prepaid
payment instruments.

We, the undersigned, Citizens of Canada, call upon the Government of Canada to require airlines and other carriers under federal jurisdiction to allow customers whose trips have been cancelled due to the current pandemic to obtain a refund.
Image
Last edited by WinterSleep on May 27th, 2020 3:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
63 replies
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 5, 2008
18181 posts
14182 upvotes
Toronto
no thanks, I already got my refund.
Deal Addict
Jan 26, 2016
2240 posts
2272 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Swerny wrote: no thanks, I already got my refund.
1) You might as well sign it to pass it forward and help other passengers.
2) If you don't intend to help, feel free to move along and not post anything.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Feb 3, 2005
5295 posts
1266 upvotes
Georgetown
Signing this is about holding our government regulators and industry accountable. There were clear rules in place when people put made the purchase, and those rules should not be ignored by the industry now because they don't like them. The government needs to step up and enforce the rules instead of bending and showing people they really can't trust regulators to enforce a fair playing field. The government and regulators I believe stepped back to see if the airlines would be able to handle the situation fairly on their own - but that clearly is NOT the case, so they NEED to step in and ensure consumers are protected. If the government has to step in to bail out the airlines... so be it... but people who were unlucky enough to pre-purchase tickets before the pandemic should not have their protections taken away. If the government steps in to bail out airlines, they should do so as INVESTORS and not just give away the money. They should ensure we the taxpayers get a fair deal and that we will earn our equity back and then some.
Banned
User avatar
Jul 17, 2008
11042 posts
3878 upvotes
I also want a petition that demands for the resignation of Scott Streiner, CEO of Canadian Transportation Agency for conflict of interest, when his wife is on the payroll of an airline.
13inches wrote: No thanks, I'm good fam.
Swerny wrote: no thanks, I already got my refund.
Move along if you are selfish and self centered.

I'm not surprised, it's all about me me me generation.
Deal Addict
May 16, 2017
2809 posts
3662 upvotes
Tiberius wrote: Signing this is about holding our government regulators and industry accountable. ...
Or making signers feel good.

Contrary opinions are as valid is supportive ones. While a strict legal interpretation would probably require refunds and would benefit consumers in the short-term, the probably killing of a business to achieve that benefit has its own knock-on consequences that will be felt for years. There are no winners here - but plenty of whiners.
Deal Addict
Jul 14, 2006
2733 posts
3964 upvotes
Messerschmitt wrote: Move along if you are selfish and self centered.

I'm not surprised, it's all about me me me generation.
That's irony 101 right there.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 9, 2003
5132 posts
981 upvotes
Calgary
if airlines are forced to give cash credits then they will just get more support money from government and the tax payer (me) will subsidize
I apologize for offending sensitivities of alt right, alt left, or anyone in the middle, for humor or perspectives, for my maturity and occasional errors. I apologize for misunderstandings on gender, religion, politics, race or deals.
Deal Addict
Jun 27, 2015
2281 posts
438 upvotes
East York, ON
Cough wrote: if airlines are forced to give cash credits then they will just get more support money from government and the tax payer (me) will subsidize
Yes "WE" will subsidize not "only me and those trapped by airlines today"
Then when this is solved ... we need to consider if we subsidize or we buy shares ..
Sig abuse not tolerated on RFD - mods
Deal Addict
Jan 26, 2016
2240 posts
2272 upvotes
Toronto, ON
CuriousC wrote: Yes "WE" will subsidize not "only me and those trapped by airlines today"
Then when this is solved ... we need to consider if we subsidize or we buy shares ..
Yes exactly! Why is it 'we' as in people who happened to be buying during COVID must be providing interest-free, unbacked loans to the airlines? With vouchers only valid for a certain period (24 months) and not transferable too! If the airlines surviving is important to ALL Canadians, then ALL Canadians need to be providing a fair share to bail them out.

So selfish on the part of those who didn't buy to say what @Cough said.
Deal Addict
Jun 27, 2015
2281 posts
438 upvotes
East York, ON
Canadian air lines if they do not refund our money

Sig abuse not tolerated on RFD - mods
Deal Addict
Jun 27, 2015
2281 posts
438 upvotes
East York, ON
robsaw wrote: Or making signers feel good.

Contrary opinions are as valid is supportive ones. While a strict legal interpretation would probably require refunds and would benefit consumers in the short-term, the probably killing of a business to achieve that benefit has its own knock-on consequences that will be felt for years. There are no winners here - but plenty of whiners.
Sure no problem get in line, pick an airline send them around 5000CAD (the cost of a trip for an average family vacation) and then sure, let' support the economy or the airlines together
I love the righteous who have no skin in the game
Sig abuse not tolerated on RFD - mods
Deal Addict
Jul 14, 2006
2733 posts
3964 upvotes
Andddddd here we go again!

I used to enjoy the travel section of this forum.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 2, 2005
5355 posts
2721 upvotes
WFH
"Forcing consumers to accept these travel credits contravenes both the Civil Code of Québec with respect to the restitution of prestations in case of superior force and Quebec’ Consumer Protection Act with respect to prepaid"

wtf, this is about all Canadians, not just Quebecers. I wonder if this wording is the reason the breakdown of signees is way over represented per capita on the Quebec side? Or maybe Quebecers are just more passionate about their rights?

Interesting as these petitions are, this government has a habit of simply dismissing them rather than embracing them as a subject for open debate.
13inches wrote: Andddddd here we go again!

I used to enjoy the travel section of this forum.
Don't expect this section to return to what it was any time soon :(
Jr. Member
Oct 11, 2011
187 posts
113 upvotes
Toronto
Swerny wrote: It's not my fault you weren't capable of negotiating a refund...it literally required an hour of time on hold and asking for it politely.

Unlike what most RFD'ers seem to do my whining about it online in a thread here.
How short-sighted is this statement to believe that all it requires is "an hour of time on hold and asking for it politely"? That's excellent if it worked for you, but that's a ridiculous, and wrong assertion.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Feb 3, 2005
5295 posts
1266 upvotes
Georgetown
Swerny wrote: It's not my fault you weren't capable of negotiating a refund...it literally required an hour of time on hold and asking for it politely.

Unlike what most RFD'ers seem to do my whining about it online in a thread here.
You truly are daft. There was existing policy in place for this. The airlines allowed some refunds early on, and then they decided to stop doing that and rigidly went to only offering 12 month vouchers. EVERY customer should not have to fight with them, and they won't back down at this point anyway. They know they were wrong and screwing people over because they have improved their "offers" at least twice now (24 month vouchers... and then no expiry and making them transferable, etc). The bottom line is that they IGNORED the consumer protections that already existed, and they have NO RIGHT to do so. There are regulatory bodies that are supposed to enforce these rules and they have not stepped up yet. Saying that the Canadians who happened to have travel booked when this occurred should just suck it up is simply wrong. Saying to stop whining because YOU aren't impacted and YOU don't want to have to bail out the industry as a taxpayer is not only selfish, but completely ridiculous (to imply those who were unlucky enough to have recently purchased tickets should be the ones to "bail out" the industry).

They say it takes all kinds... but honestly.... there are some "kinds" who we would just be better off without in a society...
Last edited by Tiberius on May 27th, 2020 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Expert
User avatar
May 10, 2005
36997 posts
11419 upvotes
Ottawa
Tiberius wrote: Signing this is about holding our government regulators and industry accountable. There were clear rules in place when people put made the purchase, and those rules should not be ignored by the industry now because they don't like them. The government needs to step up and enforce the rules instead of bending and showing people they really can't trust regulators to enforce a fair playing field. The government and regulators I believe stepped back to see if the airlines would be able to handle the situation fairly on their own - but that clearly is NOT the case, so they NEED to step in and ensure consumers are protected. If the government has to step in to bail out the airlines... so be it... but people who were unlucky enough to pre-purchase tickets before the pandemic should not have their protections taken away. If the government steps in to bail out airlines, they should do so as INVESTORS and not just give away the money. They should ensure we the taxpayers get a fair deal and that we will earn our equity back and then some.
Yes there were rules. Do you or did you know them? Most folks did not.
They were always within the rules to give vouchers for airline cancellations of non refundable tickets.
They were always within their rights to give nothing back for passenger cancelled flights on non refundable tickets (after 24 hours of purchase).
They were always within the rules to give money back, minus penalty fees, for passenger cancelled flights.
“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.”
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 5, 2008
18181 posts
14182 upvotes
Toronto
Pete_Coach wrote: Yes there were rules. Do you or did you know them? Most folks did not.
They were always within the rules to give vouchers for airline cancellations of non refundable tickets.
They were always within their rights to give nothing back for passenger cancelled flights on non refundable tickets (after 24 hours of purchase).
They were always within the rules to give money back, minus penalty fees, for passenger cancelled flights.
and thanks again Pete_Coach for the initial intel on the refund
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Feb 3, 2005
5295 posts
1266 upvotes
Georgetown
Pete_Coach wrote: Yes there were rules. Do you or did you know them? Most folks did not.
They were always within the rules to give vouchers for airline cancellations of non refundable tickets.
They were always within their rights to give nothing back for passenger cancelled flights on non refundable tickets (after 24 hours of purchase).
They were always within the rules to give money back, minus penalty fees, for passenger cancelled flights.
Actually, I believe they had wording (Air Canada at least) that stated you could get a refund if they cancelled your original booked flight (ie. moved you to another flight that wasn't the one you originally booked). However, a loophole was worded such that if the reason was "beyond their control" they didn't have to offer the refund. Thus, your point above may be correct that they have an "out". Most people will have their original flights cancelled and be rebooked to another flight... so... they could have gotten a refund if they didn't use the "out" clause. In Quebec, they had a higher bar to meet and should have to give refunds (as I understand it... Quebec always seems to have additional laws and consumer protections).

I personally feel the "no expiry" and transferable vouchers are a reasonable offer - however, the fact they took so long to get there is what offended me. I also believe they should have offered refunds to people who booked before COVID was declared a pandemic and perhaps offered an incentive to take a voucher option (give a 20% value boost or something). Flights in the future will likely cost more anyway... so giving an equal dollar voucher may not give even close to equal value.

This is about treating their customers fairly.

It is worth noting that the US policy was much more clear and rigid. If the original flight was cancelled for "any" reason... a refund can be requested. (I don't know if they have honored this policy or what the situation is in the US)

I am aware I am speaking to the situation where the original flight is cancelled which doesn't cover "everyone"...

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)