SmartTowns Markham - Pre-Con 2021

JasonC340 wrote: ↑ What do people think about SmartTowns in Markham? I'm specifically looking at the Einstein II and Latimer II. The ones with secondary units.

There was also a something similar launched with secondary units called New Lawrence Heights, by Allen and Lawrence (I know horrible crime). Part of a larger gentrification project with a master plan community.

Thoughts around comparable appreciation in either of those 2 areas? Which area would you expect to appreciate faster over the next 5-10 years?

You're a bit late to the game, unfortunately. This is the last release, and all the units with secondary units are sold out.

I may have some "ins"

So wanted to get the communities thoughts on locations and guesses on the appreciations in both. Cause we all know it's about location.

Lots in this round are out, Latimers are available, but the Einstein with Secondary they didn't release in this batch. I'm told they are saving those for the next batch in a week or 2.

Only 20 lots released this round.

Price list https://mcusercontent.com/57ad6e12443e2 ... celist.pdf

THis is in the middle of nowhere and its close to a mill now. Quite crazy IMO Markham has grown so much.

kangarooz wrote: ↑ THis is in the middle of nowhere and its close to a mill now. Quite crazy IMO Markham has grown so much.

it's not really middle of nowhere
it's boxgrove. 407 just north.
Walmart . longos and a huge plaza up the street.

oasis100 wrote: ↑ it's not really middle of nowhere
it's boxgrove. 407 just north.
Walmart . longos and a huge plaza up the street.

Literally the plaza and its like farm east of the site for like another 5-10 minutes drive until you reach the durham border.

kangarooz wrote: ↑ Literally the plaza and its like farm east of the site for like another 5-10 minutes drive until you reach the durham border.

Its your typical suburban neighbourhood. You have a hospital close by, you have easy access to a major highway (407), close to CF Markville, close to a couple colleges, close to the Go Station. Pretty much everything everyone looks for from a suburb. Unlike condos, you wouldn't expect anything major in walking distance.

Main thing is its priced well, and a lot of opportunities for duplex and cash flow positive outcomes.

deal_with_singh wrote: ↑ Its your typical suburban neighbourhood. You have a hospital close by, you have easy access to a major highway (407), close to CF Markville, close to a couple colleges, close to the Go Station. Pretty much everything everyone looks for from a suburb. Unlike condos, you wouldn't expect anything major in walking distance.

Main thing is its priced well, and a lot of opportunities for duplex and cash flow positive outcomes.

That Walmart was my local Walmart before, I know the area well. It for sure is not anywhere close to Markville, if by colleges you mean high schools then ok. 407 is a near useless utility given how expensive it is but everyone to their own. GO train is at least a 10 minute drive, I believe the closest go is Markham GO?

kangarooz wrote: ↑ That Walmart was my local Walmart before, I know the area well. It for sure is not anywhere close to Markville, if by colleges you mean high schools then ok. 407 is a near useless utility given how expensive it is but everyone to their own. GO train is at least a 10 minute drive, I believe the closest go is Markham GO?

By Colleges was referring to those private colleges that are attracting a hoard of international students, they end up renting well. Quite a few of them in the area.

For the rest of the stuff:
6.8km ~ 9 mins to CF Markville
5km ~ 9 mins to Markham Go, or 8.7km/9 mins to Unionville Go
3.7km ~ 6 mins to Costco
2.5km ~4mins to Markham Stoufville Hospital
1km ~ 2 mins to Walmart/Smart Center Plaza

Like I said its like any other typical suburb, to most all of that stuff would be considered 'close'.

Perspective as to how I consider them close is...where I currently live:
Closest shopping malls (depending on what you consider are either Vaughan Mills (18km~25 mins away) or Bramalea City Center (9km~15 mins away)
Closest Go Station is either Malton (11km ~18 mins) or Bramalea Go (11km ~18 mins)
Closest Costco (5km ~9 mins)
Closest Hospital (8km~15 mins)
Closest Walmart (5km~10 mins)


*All above noted km's and times are based on Google Maps.

deal_with_singh wrote: ↑ By Colleges was referring to those private colleges that are attracting a hoard of international students, they end up renting well. Quite a few of them in the area.

For the rest of the stuff:
6.8km ~ 9 mins to CF Markville
5km ~ 9 mins to Markham Go, or 8.7km/9 mins to Unionville Go
3.7km ~ 6 mins to Costco
2.5km ~4mins to Markham Stoufville Hospital
1km ~ 2 mins to Walmart/Smart Center Plaza

Like I said its like any other typical suburb, to most all of that stuff would be considered 'close'.

Perspective as to how I consider them close is...where I currently live:
Closest shopping malls (depending on what you consider are either Vaughan Mills (18km~25 mins away) or Bramalea City Center (9km~15 mins away)
Closest Go Station is either Malton (11km ~18 mins) or Bramalea Go (11km ~18 mins)
Closest Costco (5km ~9 mins)
Closest Hospital (8km~15 mins)
Closest Walmart (5km~10 mins)


*All above noted km's and times are based on Google Maps.

So they're not Ontario colleges type college like Seneca i guess... are they private ones for tech stuff? Or adult ESL etc? Do people really travel here to attend these in great numbers?

As for that area being "typical" as you say, around markham it's considered far. Just the way locals gonna see it. Cornell is far, and it's farther. IMO most see the stretch from Whole Foods to Markville as being central. It's not about minutes, it's relative distance.

Forget Costco and Walmart (why are those so often brought up as markers of being near stuff???).

To Markville you cite it's 7 km. Within a Markham context, that's not close. It's the edge after all, nothing is past it. It's basically the farthest thing if you're east, kind of need to refer to it as "far". I bet its the same 7 km from Smarttowns to Malvern. Is that close in your opinion?

GTA12345 wrote: ↑ So they're not Ontario colleges type college like Seneca i guess... are they private ones for tech stuff? Or adult ESL etc? Do people really travel here to attend these in great numbers?

As for that area being "typical" as you say, around markham it's considered far. Just the way locals gonna see it. Cornell is far, and it's farther. IMO most see the stretch from Whole Foods to Markville as being central. It's not about minutes, it's relative distance.

Forget Costco and Walmart (why are those so often brought up as markers of being near stuff???).

To Markville you cite it's 7 km. Within a Markham context, that's not close. It's the edge after all, nothing is past it. It's basically the farthest thing if you're east, kind of need to refer to it as "far". I bet its the same 7 km from Smarttowns to Malvern. Is that close in your opinion?

Agreed, only people who live(d) in Markham know markham traffic. Good luck driving from donalds cons to mccowan in 9 in mins, unless you are going in midnight

kangarooz wrote: ↑ Agreed, only people who live(d) in Markham know markham traffic. Good luck driving from donalds cons to mccowan in 9 in mins, unless you are going in midnight

Might be just as slow at midnight with all the police everywhere these days/nights catching speeders... you gotta go the 50km speed limit some stretches lol

GTA12345 wrote: ↑ So they're not Ontario colleges type college like Seneca i guess... are they private ones for tech stuff? Or adult ESL etc? Do people really travel here to attend these in great numbers?

As for that area being "typical" as you say, around markham it's considered far. Just the way locals gonna see it. Cornell is far, and it's farther. IMO most see the stretch from Whole Foods to Markville as being central. It's not about minutes, it's relative distance.

Forget Costco and Walmart (why are those so often brought up as markers of being near stuff???).

To Markville you cite it's 7 km. Within a Markham context, that's not close. It's the edge after all, nothing is past it. It's basically the farthest thing if you're east, kind of need to refer to it as "far". I bet its the same 7 km from Smarttowns to Malvern. Is that close in your opinion?

I’d say it depends on your time horizon for this investment. A mere 10 years ago Bathurst and Teston was the edge of Vaughan. Some developments but mostly farmland. Now it’s filled with multi million dollar homes. Things can fill in quickly and what once appeared far is now close. If you are looking for a flip maybe not great but long term I bet it fills in quite a bit.

ptxpress wrote: ↑ I’d say it depends on your time horizon for this investment. A mere 10 years ago Bathurst and Teston was the edge of Vaughan. Some developments but mostly farmland. Now it’s filled with multi million dollar homes. Things can fill in quickly and what once appeared far is now close. If you are looking for a flip maybe not great but long term I bet it fills in quite a bit.

I'd guess the area east is all protected Greenbelt. Then Pickering. If they build anything there, will be a small batch of lots on the land opposite the Walmart...and I'm thinking not luxury homes but more towns. But for all I know, that could be protected too. This development is pretty much rammed in to a small parcel of land with the plaza and other homes already surrounding.

Regardless, it's just not the side of Markham someone would try to build large luxury homes.

GTA12345 wrote: ↑ So they're not Ontario colleges type college like Seneca i guess... are they private ones for tech stuff? Or adult ESL etc? Do people really travel here to attend these in great numbers?

As for that area being "typical" as you say, around markham it's considered far. Just the way locals gonna see it. Cornell is far, and it's farther. IMO most see the stretch from Whole Foods to Markville as being central. It's not about minutes, it's relative distance.

Forget Costco and Walmart (why are those so often brought up as markers of being near stuff???).

To Markville you cite it's 7 km. Within a Markham context, that's not close. It's the edge after all, nothing is past it. It's basically the farthest thing if you're east, kind of need to refer to it as "far". I bet its the same 7 km from Smarttowns to Malvern. Is that close in your opinion?

You'd be surprised, a lot of the international student market is cornered by these types of colleges, and rental income if you go that route ends up being quite prominent. These are the easiest and cheapest ways for these 'students' to get an international experience and so they've become quite popular, which is why you see so many of these pop up in such areas.

Costco/Walmart are typically brought up as they are the two most popular retail chains people visit in droves for basic essentials/needs, so having one close usually is desirable.

While I've been in the area quite often, I've admittedly not lived in Markham myself, but to me personally, those distances I've mentioned would be close. While this may not be the case with Locals as you have mentioned, we do have to remember this is a newer area of development and its not likely that locals will be the target market, but rather new entrants to the Markham market.

The biggest feature I would say is the builder finished duplex units, and the ease of turning the other models into duplex units as well really makes this a good long term rental, and provides for positive cash flow.

GTA12345 wrote: ↑ I'd guess the area east is all protected Greenbelt. Then Pickering. If they build anything there, will be a small batch of lots on the land opposite the Walmart...and I'm thinking not luxury homes but more towns. But for all I know, that could be protected too. This development is pretty much rammed in to a small parcel of land with the plaza and other homes already surrounding.

Regardless, it's just not the side of Markham someone would try to build large luxury homes.

I wouldn't expect large luxury homes (at least yet) in this area, this will largely be a townhome subdivision. Just across the other side of the 407 you have the Jade Townhouses by Primont being built as well, and there are supposed to be further phases to that expected later on.

deal_with_singh wrote: ↑ You'd be surprised, a lot of the international student market is cornered by these types of colleges, and rental income if you go that route ends up being quite prominent. These are the easiest and cheapest ways for these 'students' to get an international experience and so they've become quite popular, which is why you see so many of these pop up in such areas.

Costco/Walmart are typically brought up as they are the two most popular retail chains people visit in droves for basic essentials/needs, so having one close usually is desirable.

While I've been in the area quite often, I've admittedly not lived in Markham myself, but to me personally, those distances I've mentioned would be close. While this may not be the case with Locals as you have mentioned, we do have to remember this is a newer area of development and its not likely that locals will be the target market, but rather new entrants to the Markham market.

The biggest feature I would say is the builder finished duplex units, and the ease of turning the other models into duplex units as well really makes this a good long term rental, and provides for positive cash flow.



I wouldn't expect large luxury homes (at least yet) in this area, this will largely be a townhome subdivision. Just across the other side of the 407 you have the Jade Townhouses by Primont being built as well, and there are supposed to be further phases to that expected later on.

That is unique, and agree could be a real draw given the market.

Are these "Private Colleges" new? Growing up most of the international students I knew was sent here to public schools because; 1) Public School/Universities > Private (At least in Canada) 2) The super rich parents wanted their kids to experience regular life 3) There were top private high schools in Asia there were even more highly ranked than Canadian ones.

Not so sure how many of these kids would be living by themselves in a house, most of them would be apart of a home stay program since they are under 18.

Not saying this a bad project, just surprised at the price and how the area was developing.

kangarooz wrote: ↑ Are these "Private Colleges" new? Growing up most of the international students I knew was sent here to public schools because; 1) Public School/Universities > Private (At least in Canada) 2) The super rich parents wanted their kids to experience regular life 3) There were top private high schools in Asia there were even more highly ranked than Canadian ones.

Not so sure how many of these kids would be living by themselves in a house, most of them would be apart of a home stay program since they are under 18.

Not saying this a bad project, just surprised at the price and how the area was developing.

They've really blown up in the last 5 years or so. Lots of them popping up all over as pretty much 'Visa colleges', given how easy its become for international students to get here. A lot of them open up in small strip malls or office buildings. People going to those aren't really coming for the education, or if they are, they don't know what they're getting themselves into. China and India have been the biggest feeders into such schools.

In my opinion we definitely need more regulation around those, and I don't support those, but doesn't look like much attention is being targetted towards them.

Like you said, the 'super rich' who can afford $50-$100k/semester or year in tuition costs send their kids to top ranked universities. Others send their kids to higher ranked public colleges like Humber, Seneca, Sheridan, etc. that cost around $20k/year, and then the rest who are just interested in a visa can get to these for around $10k/year.


Main thing however is if you look at the rental market in the area, anything up for lease gets picked up fairly quickly, and the rents will bring you cash flow positive on the duplex units. Most of the 15' versions can be turned into a duplex even after closing, however the 15' Einstein Builder built duplex, and the 18' Latimer Builder built Duplex are just 'easy'.