Smoke alarm chaos

Jul 29th, 2021 9:23 am

#1

razorblade705 [OP]: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2013; 1563 posts; 409 upvotes; Oakville

Jul 29th, 2021 9:23 am

I own a 2-storey house in Mississauga, lived here for a month so things are relatively new to me.

On the top floor, is a CO + Smoke alarm (4 leads coming from the ceiling - white, black, orange, brown); on the main floor and basement is just a smoke alarm (white, black and orange leads only). Obviously, they are all hardwired.

Middle of the night last night, the smoke alarm on the top triggered (the sound was the smoke alarm, not the CO. But both smoke and CO lights were off) - the push to reset didn't work, had to pull it off the ceiling and disconnect its wires.

I turned off the AC, my desktop computer. Nothing else was on that I could think of. Checked the gas stove for good measure, but it was off too.

5 min later, the one on the main floor triggered - same result.
2 hours later, the one in the basement started going off and I had to take it off as well.

Looking for ideas on where to start troubleshooting this. All alarms were last replaced 2019 so they're not old by any means.
All alarms are interconnected, but not sure why others would chirp when one or two were taken out.

Last edited by razorblade705 on Jul 29th, 2021 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jul 29th, 2021 9:49 am

#2

GoodFellaz: Penalty Box; Jun 24, 2015; 8249 posts; 2777 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 29th, 2021 9:49 am

what brand is it? you did not mention the brand? they should all be the same brand, and secondly, there is 3 wires for interconnect, never ever in my life have i heard of one having 4 wires.

Do they look like regular hydro wires in your junction box? MOST smoke alarms use regular hydro wiring, Black = positive, White = negative, Red = interconnect signal. if your wires are thinner than the normal hydro cables you might have a smoke detector that is connected to some kind of home alarm where the alarm sistem powers it not your hydro?

i dunno but if u can get some picts or model numbers that would def help solve your problem

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

Jul 29th, 2021 9:52 am

#3

eblend: Deal Addict; Jul 21, 2005; 2069 posts; 1113 upvotes; Alberta

Jul 29th, 2021 9:52 am

Third wire is there for interconnect between alarms, to sound them all at once if one triggers. Why this is happening, who knows, could be a faulty alarm or maybe some wiring problem (mice chew through wire). I know not the answer you are looking for, but I had some spotty fire alarms before so I got those Nest hard-wired ones and they have been awesome. They interconnect between themselves via own WiFi so no need for the 3rd wire etc, and I have had 0 false alarms since installing them some 3 years ago.

+1

Jul 29th, 2021 10:25 am

#4

razorblade705 [OP]: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2013; 1563 posts; 409 upvotes; Oakville

Jul 29th, 2021 10:25 am

GoodFellaz wrote: ↑what brand is it? you did not mention the brand? they should all be the same brand, and secondly, there is 3 wires for interconnect, never ever in my life have i heard of one having 4 wires.

Do they look like regular hydro wires in your junction box? MOST smoke alarms use regular hydro wiring, Black = positive, White = negative, Red = interconnect signal. if your wires are thinner than the normal hydro cables you might have a smoke detector that is connected to some kind of home alarm where the alarm sistem powers it not your hydro?

i dunno but if u can get some picts or model numbers that would def help solve your problem

They are BRK / First Alert, but I can't seem to find the model number on them. On the phone with them now, let's see how it goes. .

Here's a picture of the 4 wires.

Images

Jul 29th, 2021 10:25 am

#5

razorblade705 [OP]: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2013; 1563 posts; 409 upvotes; Oakville

Jul 29th, 2021 10:25 am

eblend wrote: ↑Third wire is there for interconnect between alarms, to sound them all at once if one triggers. Why this is happening, who knows, could be a faulty alarm or maybe some wiring problem (mice chew through wire). I know not the answer you are looking for, but I had some spotty fire alarms before so I got those Nest hard-wired ones and they have been awesome. They interconnect between themselves via own WiFi so no need for the 3rd wire etc, and I have had 0 false alarms since installing them some 3 years ago.

That's not a bad thought. Not sure if I want to spend that much money on them yet, but I'll certainly keep it as an option.

Jul 29th, 2021 10:32 am

#6

Ballroomblitz1: Deal Addict; Oct 2, 2018; 2867 posts; 3363 upvotes; Toronto

Jul 29th, 2021 10:32 am

Perhaps someone can comment if hard wired alarms are more prone to false alarms?

Are the alarms rated for x number of years before replacement, i know OP mentioned only living there for a month however maybe he was not the original purchaser and the house is over 10 years or whatever the time rated detectors might be rated for.

“Laughter is timeless, imagination has no age.....and dreams are forever.”

Jul 29th, 2021 10:38 am

#7

razorblade705 [OP]: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2013; 1563 posts; 409 upvotes; Oakville

Jul 29th, 2021 10:38 am

Ballroomblitz1 wrote: ↑Perhaps someone can comment if hard wired alarms are more prone to false alarms?

Are the alarms rated for x number of years before replacement, i know OP mentioned only living there for a month however maybe he was not the original purchaser and the house is over 10 years or whatever the time rated detectors might be rated for.

The alarms have a sticker of Sep 2019 on them, but I'm not sure if that's the start or the end of 10 years.

Jul 29th, 2021 11:04 am

#8

GoodFellaz: Penalty Box; Jun 24, 2015; 8249 posts; 2777 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 29th, 2021 11:04 am

razorblade705 wrote: ↑ They are BRK / First Alert, but I can't seem to find the model number on them. On the phone with them now, let's see how it goes. .

Here's a picture of the 4 wires.

Woah that is so strange, have never seen a pigtail with 4 wires, nor can i find any info by doing a google search. please give us the model number as I am curious to know what model this is and where the extra wire goes?

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

Jul 29th, 2021 11:14 am

#9

engineered: Deal Expert; Feb 11, 2007; 20679 posts; 24713 upvotes; GTA

Jul 29th, 2021 11:14 am

Check the model/serial to see if they were recalled. I think I remember some First Alert being recalled not long ago.

If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

+1

Jul 29th, 2021 11:15 am

#10

GoodFellaz: Penalty Box; Jun 24, 2015; 8249 posts; 2777 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 29th, 2021 11:15 am

razorblade705 wrote: ↑ The alarms have a sticker of Sep 2019 on them, but I'm not sure if that's the start or the end of 10 years.

That is likely the date of Manufacturer. Usually if there is expiry date it would say something along the lines of "Replace By 2027" or so

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

+2

Jul 29th, 2021 11:23 am

#11

psfl: Member; Jan 18, 2009; 231 posts; 133 upvotes; Leask

Jul 29th, 2021 11:23 am

Do they have battery back up?

Mine have had a habit of needing attention usually in the middle of the night.

Jul 29th, 2021 11:29 am

#12

timofeewho: Member; Nov 13, 2019; 325 posts; 106 upvotes; Toronto

Jul 29th, 2021 11:29 am

Recently moved into a house with hardwired smoke/CO detectors as well

The one time we had a false alarm was a scary event as the whole house was just singing and freaking out lol (we were as well)

I make a habit of vacuuming the detectors frequently for dust now

I hate hardwired, such a pain in the ass to identify the culprit with the strobe lights in your face and it's not like my house is so big that I can't hear a sounding alarm in the basement from my 2nd floor room

Jul 29th, 2021 11:34 am

#13

insertname2020: Deal Addict; Oct 19, 2020; 1047 posts; 674 upvotes; GTA

Jul 29th, 2021 11:34 am

Hard-wired alarms do indicate which unit is initiating - usually with flashing led.

You can also disconnect the interconnect wires and see if it's only one unit causing the trouble.

The fourth wire is most likely a ground - usually, alarms do not have. you can tell for sure by removing the mounting plate.

Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.

Jul 29th, 2021 11:39 am

#14

razorblade705 [OP]: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2013; 1563 posts; 409 upvotes; Oakville

Jul 29th, 2021 11:39 am

GoodFellaz wrote: ↑
Woah that is so strange, have never seen a pigtail with 4 wires, nor can i find any info by doing a google search. please give us the model number as I am curious to know what model this is and where the extra wire goes?

I for the life of me can't find a model number on it.

GoodFellaz wrote: ↑
That is likely the date of Manufacturer. Usually if there is expiry date it would say something along the lines of "Replace By 2027" or so

No such sticker, the only date sticker says "Sep 15, 2019."

psfl wrote: ↑Do they have battery back up?

Mine have had a habit of needing attention usually in the middle of the night.

Not as far as I can tell!

Update for everyone: Thank you all for the replies! I called BRK, and the first thing they wanted me to do was plug one of the detectors back in and see if it beeped right away. As soon as I plugged it in, there was a shock and it blew up, smell of smoke and everything. I assume this was a faulty detector and the other two were just reacting to this one not working. With that said, this was the smoke + CO detector on the top floor, and the first one I unplugged - and the others kept beeping after. Not sure why that would happen though..

Either way, BRK is nice enough to send me replacements for all 3 free of cost. So as long as I don't start any fires in the next week, it's a decent outcome!

+8

Jul 29th, 2021 12:59 pm

#15

engineered: Deal Expert; Feb 11, 2007; 20679 posts; 24713 upvotes; GTA

Jul 29th, 2021 12:59 pm

razorblade705 wrote: ↑ I for the life of me can't find a model number on it.

No such sticker, the only date sticker says "Sep 15, 2019."
Not as far as I can tell!
Update for everyone: Thank you all for the replies! I called BRK, and the first thing they wanted me to do was plug one of the detectors back in and see if it beeped right away. As soon as I plugged it in, there was a shock and it blew up, smell of smoke and everything. I assume this was a faulty detector and the other two were just reacting to this one not working. With that said, this was the smoke + CO detector on the top floor, and the first one I unplugged - and the others kept beeping after. Not sure why that would happen though..

Either way, BRK is nice enough to send me replacements for all 3 free of cost. So as long as I don't start any fires in the next week, it's a decent outcome!

Hopefully that's it, but it could be faulty wiring as well. If you have a multimeter you can test the wires.

If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

Jul 29th, 2021 1:33 pm

#16

razorblade705 [OP]: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2013; 1563 posts; 409 upvotes; Oakville

Jul 29th, 2021 1:33 pm

engineered wrote: ↑ Hopefully that's it, but it could be faulty wiring as well. If you have a multimeter you can test the wires.

I do. Do you know what I should be looking for in the test?

Jul 29th, 2021 1:37 pm

#17

GoodFellaz: Penalty Box; Jun 24, 2015; 8249 posts; 2777 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 29th, 2021 1:37 pm

The black wire is the positive wire it should have 120 volts compared with ground, the white should have 0 volts compared with ground, the red wire normally has no volts power on it unless the alarm is going off it sends signals to the other units, so u dont need to test the red one, its not connected to your hydro at all

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

+2

Jul 29th, 2021 1:52 pm

#18

razorblade705 [OP]: Deal Addict; Jan 2, 2013; 1563 posts; 409 upvotes; Oakville

Jul 29th, 2021 1:52 pm

I'll do that this weekend. Thanks all

Jul 29th, 2021 10:04 pm

#19

insertname2020: Deal Addict; Oct 19, 2020; 1047 posts; 674 upvotes; GTA

Jul 29th, 2021 10:04 pm

razorblade705 wrote: ↑ I'll do that this weekend. Thanks all

Your new alarms should come with new wiring harnesses.

To rule out issues caused by a defective wiring harness, put the new ones.
It's straight forward, just remember to cut power b4 doing the work.

Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.

+2

Jul 30th, 2021 8:28 am

#20

GoodFellaz: Penalty Box; Jun 24, 2015; 8249 posts; 2777 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 30th, 2021 8:28 am

ya new alarm should have 3 wires pigtail instead of 4., i am curious where the 4th wire went? can u let us know?

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade