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Sr. Member
Apr 18, 2017
584 posts
279 upvotes
[url=https://www.qeios.com/read/article/561]Smoking, vaping and hospitalization for COVID-19[/url]
Another preprint,
an additional 6 studies, for a total of 13. (including the U.S. CDC data makes 14 samples)
All showing the same unanticipated effect.

The severity and mortality outcomes for smokers hospitalized with COVID19 are worse than for nonsmokers....
but for some reason smokers are under represented for hospitalization in the first place.
By a LOT.... Perhaps as high as 80% less hospitalization than would be expected, per representation of the general population.

Hopefully this anomaly will be investigated and if it's found to be true, the mechanism can used to develop some kind of prophylactic.

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Sr. Member
Apr 18, 2017
584 posts
279 upvotes
French researchers to test nicotine patches on coronavirus patients and frontline health workers

“Our cross-sectional study strongly suggests that those who smoke every day are much less likely to develop a symptomatic or severe infection with Sars-CoV-2 compared with the general population,” the Pitié-Salpêtrière report authors wrote.
“The effect is significant. It divides the risk by five for ambulatory patients and by four for those admitted to hospital."


[url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... SApp_Other]French researchers to test nicotine patches on coronavirus patients and frontline health workers
[/url]
[url=https://www.qeios.com/read/article/581]A nicotinic hypothesis for Covid-19 with preventive and therapeutic implications[/url]

Edit: story now being covered by CTV
[url=https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.4908805]https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.4908805[/url]
Deal Addict
Oct 3, 2013
1199 posts
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West
@qman23 . Gotta say, I was skeptical at first given you only linked one study, and just identified some stat that had many potential confounds. As more study come out though, it does appear there seems to be a consistent under representation of smokers.
Deal Guru
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Mar 28, 2006
10513 posts
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Interesting but it's not the smoking or vaping that reduce the severity of COVID-19, scientists suspect it is the acetylcholine which makes sense to me, still very interesting. So perhaps nicotinic agonists can be part of the treatment?
Masks can reduce spread of COVID-19 by 83.3% and keep economy open, wear one!
*external links and short links are not allowed
Deal Addict
Oct 3, 2013
1199 posts
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West
82 wrote: Interesting but it's not the smoking or vaping that reduce the severity of COVID-19, scientists suspect it is the acetylcholine which makes sense to me, still very interesting. So perhaps nicotinic agonists can be part of the treatment?
I would imagine there seems to be potential to use it to prevent or slow further decline if one is diagnosed with COVID-19. We know there seems to be an approx. 7 day window before someone, who's body will fail fighting COVID-19, will fail. If there is some intervention that can prevent that from happening, then that would be valuable. The risks & side-effects of using a patch for that short of a timeframe would probably be minimal enough to consider use (especially versus interventions like HCQ).

Theoretically, it would seem you may be able to use nicotine to prevent COVID-19, but this is a less realistic application due negative effects on the body from prolonged usage. Given nicotine has a short half-life of 1-2 hrs, one would pretty much have to wear a patch 24/7, indefinitely, until an efficacious vaccination arises.
Sr. Member
Apr 18, 2017
584 posts
279 upvotes
Phonophoresis wrote: @qman23 . Gotta say, I was skeptical at first given you only linked one study, and just identified some stat that had many potential confounds. As more study come out though, it does appear there seems to be a consistent under representation of smokers.
It was only my surprise at the magnitude of the discrepancy, that cause me to become so curious.
Also the fact that the Scientific American article @joo posted, made statements opposite that of what the cited study implied. It just did not compute. Nor did the media anti smoking/coronavirus blitz claiming that smoking made people more susceptible when the available clinical evidence was to the contrary.
It demonstrates the danger of dogma, how ideology can bias scientific inquiry.
Had this correlation had been at all subtle, I wonder if anyone would have even bothered to follow up?
Sr. Member
Apr 18, 2017
584 posts
279 upvotes
Phonophoresis wrote: I would imagine there seems to be potential to use it to prevent or slow further decline if one is diagnosed with COVID-19. We know there seems to be an approx. 7 day window before someone, who's body will fail fighting COVID-19, will fail. If there is some intervention that can prevent that from happening, then that would be valuable. The risks & side-effects of using a patch for that short of a timeframe would probably be minimal enough to consider use (especially versus interventions like HCQ).

Theoretically, it would seem you may be able to use nicotine to prevent COVID-19, but this is a less realistic application due negative effects on the body from prolonged usage. Given nicotine has a short half-life of 1-2 hrs, one would pretty much have to wear a patch 24/7, indefinitely, until an efficacious vaccination arises.
There are two main branches of in silico experiments being done now on nicotine. One branch on the ACE2 route of infection. There are conflicting results of it being beneficial and detrimental.
The other main branch of inquiry is as @82 says, acetylcholine receptor path. (specifically α7 nAChR)

If the former, then one might require nicotine consistently to be effective as a prophylactic, but if the latter then it might be the up regulation of acetylcholine receptors that is providing the benefit. This could explain why the data implies that ex smokers are also underrepresented. (but far less so)

For the comment "it isn't the smoking", We just don't know anything yet.
The working assumption is that it is nicotine that is providing the benefit.
If we could determine no difference between vaping and smoking, that would bolster the nicotine hypothesis as vaping has only nicotine as an active alkaloid. Otherwise, there may be other tobacco sourced alkaloids worth investigating. Or perhaps it's the chronic hypoxia that smokers endure that creates some kind of adaptation?

In the interim, a Bayesian analysis should be done to determine whether the risk of supplementation over the short term, exceeds the risks of COVID19 infection on a population level.
Sr. Member
Jul 24, 2019
595 posts
721 upvotes
Canada
CouponKindaGuy wrote: No it's not about how it effects the lungs.
I think the infection rate is higher for smokers because our hands are near our face so much per hr.
You gotta take your mask off, if you smoke.
China is major smokers.
I think Italians are big smokers too, poss France too and Spain.
Population of China smokers are over 40%, states about 19%. And canada around 12%.
Apparently average person touches their face 20 times per hour , so logically a smoker touches their face.
I know it's a wild theory but maybe some truth to it.
I know smoking is not good but its not a debate about smoking but the infection rate.
Yes, it IS about how it affect the lungs. The respirator system is weakened by smoking or vaping tobacco or cannabis. Then respiratory viruses or bacteria can take advantage of a weakened respiratory system or weakened immune system. Country evidence? More important is the strength of the person's immune system.
Sr. Member
Jul 24, 2019
595 posts
721 upvotes
Canada
CouponKindaGuy wrote: No it's not about how it effects the lungs.
I think the infection rate is higher for smokers because our hands are near our face so much per hr.
You gotta take your mask off, if you smoke.
China is major smokers.
I think Italians are big smokers too, poss France too and Spain.
Population of China smokers are over 40%, states about 19%. And canada around 12%.
Apparently average person touches their face 20 times per hour , so logically a smoker touches their face.
I know it's a wild theory but maybe some truth to it.
I know smoking is not good but its not a debate about smoking but the infection rate.
Yes, it IS about how it affect the lungs. The respirator system is weakened by smoking or vaping tobacco or cannabis. Then respiratory viruses or bacteria can take advantage of a weakened respiratory system or weakened immune system. Country evidence? More important is the strength of the person's immune system.
[OP]
Deal Addict
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Jul 10, 2004
2755 posts
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Ontario
Well as for smoking cannabis and more specifically cbd, I have to slightly disagree especially with someone with asthma.
I did a high school book report in 1978 and was blown away when I read and how it can help someone with asthma.
That new discovery hit home hard fir me, as my grandmother had asthma. She never did try it, but when I explained the mechanics, she was quite intrigued.
As for cannabis weakening the immune system , again I have to disagree , if anything and especially ingesting cannabis, it boosts the immune system.
I've seen the power of cannabis many times but the most heart warming was a gentleman I know , who given 1month to live because chemo also weakened his immune system.he went on a full regiment of RSO oil , and that gave him 2 more years and QOL compared to traditional methods.
Once I can get tested to find out if I had covid in March and confirm I had it. I will never stop talking about how CBD oil saved my a$$.
When i had difficulty breathing and my bpm hitting well over 130 by walking up 10 steps in my house. I knew there was a problem and like many others I had never felt like that in my life.
I attacked it for a week by increasing my 5ml to almost 45ml of cbd oil everyday. Grant it, it took almost 3 months to get my breathing back to normal.
Do you think the medical community or big pharma wants to hear that. Absolutely not, because like everything in Soceity, its all about the big bux and how much those entities can profit from.
I'll throw something in there because I'm not a sheep and I question stuff, research and find my own answers , not whats force-fed to me especially by paid media.
Since 1977 I've come across alot of cannabis users, and I can tell ya, not many have expired to lung cancer. I wonder why that is? No , it couldn't be because when they smoked their lung linings were introduced to cannabinoids, hence killing the cancer cells.
Of course , in 1974 a study sanctioned by US president Nixon proved thc kills cancer cells but that was shelved and that data was destroyed because it effects political donations and big Pharma.
Thankfully Canada let the Cannabis Train on the tracks by legalizing it, not because of its medical knowledge advancement but because it was challenged in court.
...
Long live the Sheepdogs...
kimmelite wrote: Yes, it IS about how it affect the lungs. The respirator system is weakened by smoking or vaping tobacco or cannabis. Then respiratory viruses or bacteria can take advantage of a weakened respiratory system or weakened immune system. Country evidence? More important is the strength of the person's immune system.
¨°º©oVelox, Versutus, Vigilanso©º°¨
Sr. Member
Jul 24, 2019
595 posts
721 upvotes
Canada
CouponKindaGuy wrote: Well as for smoking cannabis and more specifically cbd, I have to slightly disagree especially with someone with asthma.
I did a high school book report in 1978 and was blown away when I read and how it can help someone with asthma.
That new discovery hit home hard fir me, as my grandmother had asthma. She never did try it, but when I explained the mechanics, she was quite intrigued.
As for cannabis weakening the immune system , again I have to disagree , if anything and especially ingesting cannabis, it boosts the immune system.
I've seen the power of cannabis many times but the most heart warming was a gentleman I know , who given 1month to live because chemo also weakened his immune system.he went on a full regiment of RSO oil , and that gave him 2 more years and QOL compared to traditional methods.
Once I can get tested to find out if I had covid in March and confirm I had it. I will never stop talking about how CBD oil saved my a$$.
When i had difficulty breathing and my bpm hitting well over 130 by walking up 10 steps in my house. I knew there was a problem and like many others I had never felt like that in my life.
I attacked it for a week by increasing my 5ml to almost 45ml of cbd oil everyday. Grant it, it took almost 3 months to get my breathing back to normal.
Do you think the medical community or big pharma wants to hear that. Absolutely not, because like everything in Soceity, its all about the big bux and how much those entities can profit from.
I'll throw something in there because I'm not a sheep and I question stuff, research and find my own answers , not whats force-fed to me especially by paid media.
Since 1977 I've come across alot of cannabis users, and I can tell ya, not many have expired to lung cancer. I wonder why that is? No , it couldn't be because when they smoked their lung linings were introduced to cannabinoids, hence killing the cancer cells.
Of course , in 1974 a study sanctioned by US president Nixon proved thc kills cancer cells but that was shelved and that data was destroyed because it effects political donations and big Pharma.
Thankfully Canada let the Cannabis Train on the tracks by legalizing it, not because of its medical knowledge advancement but because it was challenged in court.
...
Long live the Sheepdogs...
Sorry, it is not the PRODUCT that is combusted through the lungs that's the issue, but the COMBUSTION process itself! The purpose of lungs are move fresh air throughout the body and REMOVE waste gas. Smoking adds chemicals to the lungs/respiratory system, weakening the lungs and making the lungs work harder. While the lungs are trying to bring needed oxygen to the cells in the body, smoking impedes this function. Blood cells, specifically, clot faster due to smoking. Add COVID to the body of a person who smokes or vapes and clotting blood can result in a seriously ill person being put on a a ventilator.

The purpose of tobacco and vaping companies is to sell their product. Any way possible. They don't care that the lungs are being negatively affected. To them, the consumer is a source of revenue. $$
[OP]
Deal Addict
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Jul 10, 2004
2755 posts
510 upvotes
Ontario
When I referred to COVID, I mentioned cbd oil and I should have mentioned cbd oil tincture taken orally. Of course having active covid,vaping would prolly not be a good idea.
As for moderate vaping if a person has asthma. There lungs are already damaged and the benefits of cannabis outweigh the negatives imo. Cannabis has a huge role in the ECS (Endocannabinoid System) which many do not understand at all. So here one has a natural product that is composed of cannabinoids which the ECS can use throughout the body. There are next to no pharma drugs that can do that.

As for profits both the cannabis retail market and pharmaceutical companies are all out to make money off of the consumer.
I grow my own, so nobody profits from me, which makes me a happy camper. With cannabis, I can break it down into , edibles, creams, tinctures and vaping. However I hardly vape/smoke anymore unless I want to address the pain almost immediately.
I can't make pharma drugs nor would I want too,
The plant is natural and has been around since prolly the start of time. For myself I will trust that plant over synthetics any day of the week.
Imo most pain meds mask the pain and never address it, cuz then its not a money maker for big pharma. They are quick fixes that come with huge organ consequences.
Thanks for engaging.

kimmelite wrote: Sorry, it is not the PRODUCT that is combusted through the lungs that's the issue, but the COMBUSTION process itself! The purpose of lungs are move fresh air throughout the body and REMOVE waste gas. Smoking adds chemicals to the lungs/respiratory system, weakening the lungs and making the lungs work harder. While the lungs are trying to bring needed oxygen to the cells in the body, smoking impedes this function. Blood cells, specifically, clot faster due to smoking. Add COVID to the body of a person who smokes or vapes and clotting blood can result in a seriously ill person being put on a a ventilator.

The purpose of tobacco and vaping companies is to sell their product. Any way possible. They don't care that the lungs are being negatively affected. To them, the consumer is a source of revenue. $$
¨°º©oVelox, Versutus, Vigilanso©º°¨
Deal Fanatic
Sep 16, 2004
9240 posts
1700 upvotes
Toronto
where there is smoke there is fire.:)

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