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State of emergency - home renos

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  • Jan 15th, 2021 5:20 pm
[OP]
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Jan 8, 2009
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State of emergency - home renos

Have googled the heck out of this but am unable to find a definitive answer. I'm assuming non-essential construction includes home renos, yes? What if you've already started? Are you allowed to finish?
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Oct 15, 2007
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https://ontarioconstructionnews.com/cov ... -outlined/

Residential construction projects where,
a footing permit has been granted for single family, semi-detached and townhomes
the project is a condominium, mixed use or other residential building, or
the project involves renovations to residential properties and construction work was started before January 12, 2021.
Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again. - Andre Gide
[OP]
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Jan 8, 2009
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GTA
Red_Army wrote: https://ontarioconstructionnews.com/cov ... -outlined/

Residential construction projects where,
a footing permit has been granted for single family, semi-detached and townhomes
the project is a condominium, mixed use or other residential building, or
the project involves renovations to residential properties and construction work was started before January 12, 2021.
Thank you so much. I swear I searched before asking but I didn't come up with that.
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Aug 29, 2011
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That sucks. I have a co-worker who is scheduled to have windows and siding replaced starting tomorrow (Jan 13). Guess that ain't happening now...
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Oct 20, 2005
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exrcoupe wrote: This - page 24. https://files.ontario.ca/moh-enhanced-p ... -12-v2.pdf

I found this online today and from what I read, if the renovation job was started before today, it can continue, otherwise, no new jobs can start until the end of the stay at home orders.
The wording is a little strange, is it one of the three conditions? Or requiring the first one and one of either the second or third one?

What if the renovation does not have a "footing permit" but was started before January 12th?
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Jan 25, 2007
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Paris
mrweather wrote: That sucks. I have a co-worker who is scheduled to have windows and siding replaced starting tomorrow (Jan 13). Guess that ain't happening now...
I’m 100% sure, just as last time, there will be all kinds of rule shirkers. The whole “30% arent following the rules” will continue unabated. We followed the rules and didnt work last time and lost a tonne of work to those that did. Quite frankly it pisses me off. One of our suppliers stayed open, considering themselves “essential”. For a little karma, they got shut down by their regional health authority for 2 weeks in Sept/Oct sometime. I am sure they wont shut again this time. The cops dont have time for this crap.

All I heard today was “Things are going to get worse. Some people arent following the rules. Here are some more rules for those that follow, and those that didnt follow the previous rules arent going to follow these either and things will get worse”

In summary, I bet good money those guys will still start tomorrow. Windows can be done in a day, siding is a 2 week job. I hope someone calls the cops on them. Nothing will be done until homeowners start getting charged too.
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Sep 27, 2006
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Not so easy there Ma…
Jerico wrote: I’m 100% sure, just as last time, there will be all kinds of rule shirkers. The whole “30% arent following the rules” will continue unabated. We followed the rules and didnt work last time and lost a tonne of work to those that did. Quite frankly it pisses me off. One of our suppliers stayed open, considering themselves “essential”. For a little karma, they got shut down by their regional health authority for 2 weeks in Sept/Oct sometime. I am sure they wont shut again this time. The cops dont have time for this crap.

All I heard today was “Things are going to get worse. Some people arent following the rules. Here are some more rules for those that follow, and those that didnt follow the previous rules arent going to follow these either and things will get worse”

In summary, I bet good money those guys will still start tomorrow. Windows can be done in a day, siding is a 2 week job. I hope someone calls the cops on them. Nothing will be done until homeowners start getting charged too.
January 12th the province extended authority.

The province will provide authority to all provincial offences officers, including the Ontario Provincial Police, local police forces, bylaw officers, and provincial workplace inspectors to issue tickets to individuals who do not comply with the stay-at-home-order, or those not wearing a mask or face covering indoors in places open to the public, subject to limited exceptions, as well as retail operators and companies who do not enforce requirements under orders under the Reopening Ontario (A Flexible Response to COVID-19) Act (ROA) or EMPCA. Those who decide not to abide by orders will be subject to a set fine and/or prosecution under both the ROA and EMCPA as applicable.

In addition, all provincial offences officers will have the authority to temporarily close a premise and disperse individuals who are in contravention of gathering limits an order and will be able to disperse people who are gathering, regardless whether a premise has been closed or remains open such as a park.

Non-essential construction is further restricted, including below-grade construction, exempting survey.

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/5992 ... save-lives
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Jan 7, 2013
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Unless you have a gaping hole in tge side of your house, its not essential.
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Jan 25, 2007
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fergy wrote: Those who decide not to abide by orders will be subject to a set fine and/or prosecution under both the ROA and EMCPA as applicable.
Bylaw in University towns might be out, but I hope I am wrong and it happens, but I just dont see it being enforced. Not for lack of will, but for lack of resources.
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jrbb0309 wrote: Have googled the heck out of this but am unable to find a definitive answer. I'm assuming non-essential construction includes home renos, yes? What if you've already started? Are you allowed to finish?
Doesn't stop me from getting my kitchen back splash finally done as well as some countertop finishes on my custom finished shelves in my basement from the same guy that previously did our kitchen and bathroom countertops.
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[OP]
Sr. Member
Jan 8, 2009
746 posts
397 upvotes
GTA
Jerico wrote: I’m 100% sure, just as last time, there will be all kinds of rule shirkers. The whole “30% arent following the rules” will continue unabated. We followed the rules and didnt work last time and lost a tonne of work to those that did. Quite frankly it pisses me off. One of our suppliers stayed open, considering themselves “essential”. For a little karma, they got shut down by their regional health authority for 2 weeks in Sept/Oct sometime. I am sure they wont shut again this time. The cops dont have time for this crap.

All I heard today was “Things are going to get worse. Some people arent following the rules. Here are some more rules for those that follow, and those that didnt follow the previous rules arent going to follow these either and things will get worse”

In summary, I bet good money those guys will still start tomorrow. Windows can be done in a day, siding is a 2 week job. I hope someone calls the cops on them. Nothing will be done until homeowners start getting charged too.
We were supposed to have a bathroom reno started on Monday. Our contractor was willing to go ahead - was arguing that the fact that we'd paid the deposit and ordered everything constituted having started and that because we have a "possible" small leak that needs investigating we could say it was essential - but we said we were uncomfortable and not prepared to go ahead until after the lockdown/state of emergency. I understand how hard it is to keep a business afloat and keep employees paid/working but we've followed all the other orders, been pretty judge-y about those who haven't, didn't see our extended family at Christmas, etc, so why would we try and skirt the "rules" now when things are worse than they've ever been?

PLUS we have a working bathroom right now. It's not pretty and it drives me up the wall but it works. I'd hate to get halfway into a project and get shutdown OR have the glass door guy come out to measure but then not be able to get our shower glass for months. But those things are secondary to the fact that our job is non-essential construction and was not started before Jan 12th and therefore shouldn't be going ahead.
Last edited by jrbb0309 on Jan 13th, 2021 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Oct 19, 2008
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jdmfishingonly wrote: Doesn't stop me from getting my kitchen back splash finally done as well as some countertop finishes on my custom finished shelves in my basement from the same guy....
You might get something else from that guy.
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Dec 26, 2012
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i have basement waterproofing slated for monday but the permit has already been given to me and it's interior basement digging so i believe that's a footing permit. I'm good to go.
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Apr 13, 2004
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Red_Army wrote: https://ontarioconstructionnews.com/cov ... -outlined/

Residential construction projects where,
a footing permit has been granted for single family, semi-detached and townhomes
the project is a condominium, mixed use or other residential building, or
the project involves renovations to residential properties and construction work was started before January 12, 2021.
I had the same question, and I believe the above is the correct answer.
Listed on page 24 in the linked slide deck below from the official government site:
https://files.ontario.ca/moh-enhanced-p ... -12-v2.pdf
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Spongeboy
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Nov 13, 2019
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I have a friend who's been talking to a contractor regarding a decently sized reno project on a house that she's closing the end of this month. Last I heard they couldn't get the permit started because the seller refused to have their name on the permit. She emailed the contractor last night about whether or not the reno is still a go and was told that they started the reno process prior to the announcement yesterday, so it's still fine. I guess they theoretically talked about it, hence started it even though they don't have a permit so they're fine🤷‍♂️?

Either way, I don't see cops driving around town looking for houses undergoing reno, that's expecting too much from the cops lol
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Dec 4, 2009
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Wait for the next set of action steps, the rules will only get tighter. The Government is out of ideas and it’s clear people aren’t listening, things are only going downhill.

If it were me, I’d be more concerned about having a safe place to live over a renovated place to live..
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Jan 25, 2007
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jdmfishingonly wrote: Doesn't stop me from getting my kitchen back splash finally done as well as some countertop finishes on my custom finished shelves in my basement from the same guy that previously did our kitchen and bathroom countertops.
I’d be really careful. A contractor truck in the driveway is extremely obvious and lots of neighbours will call the cops.

Last time I saw the same guy (who I know and like) installing windows at multiple different houses around town during the lockdown. I honestly considered calling the cops, but I would hope now that they are tasked with enforcement they would actually stop.

Also, it seems you are a part of the 30%
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Jan 25, 2007
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timofeewho wrote: I have a friend who's been talking to a contractor regarding a decently sized reno project on a house that she's closing the end of this month. Last I heard they couldn't get the permit started because the seller refused to have their name on the permit. She emailed the contractor last night about whether or not the reno is still a go and was told that they started the reno process prior to the announcement yesterday, so it's still fine. I guess they theoretically talked about it, hence started it even though they don't have a permit so they're fine🤷‍♂️?

Either way, I don't see cops driving around town looking for houses undergoing reno, that's expecting too much from the cops lol
There is no way the local municipality will be issuing permits. So she will be working without one. Another 30%er. Plus, materials will be extremely difficult to get.
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jrbb0309 wrote: We were supposed to have a bathroom reno started on Monday. Our contractor was willing to go ahead - was arguing that the fact that we'd paid the deposit and ordered everything constituted having started and that because we have a "possible" small leak that needs investigating we could say it was essential - but we said we were uncomfortable and not prepared to go ahead until after the lockdown/state of emergency. I understand how hard it is to keep a business afloat and keep employees paid/working but we've followed all the other orders, been pretty judge-y about those who haven't, didn't see our extended family at Christmas, etc, so why would we try and skirt the "rules" now when things are worse than they've ever been?

PLUS we have a working bathroom right now. It's not pretty and it drives me up the wall but it works. I'd hate to get halfway into a project and get shutdown OR have the glass door guy come out to measure but then not be able to get our shower glass for months. But those things are secondary to the fact that our job is non-essential construction and was not started before Jan 12th and therefore shouldn't be going ahead.
It's refreshing to hear from someone who thinks like this. I have a couple clients that are expecting me to do non-essential work in their homes that don't seem to "get it". It's perfect example of cognitive dissonance.
Sure, I could use the money, but I'd like to be part of the solution not the problem. The work they want done will most likely still need doing after things stabilize.

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