Computers & Electronics

strange wifi speed issues

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Deal Fanatic
Sep 16, 2013
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vodka wrote: What I question, and I don't know enough to say, is why is your upload speed unaffected - can someone chime in here, do the transmit signals and receive signals operate at different wavelengths such that one could be affected by EMI (more) and one not?
Wavelength and frequency are tied by speed of light. Each channel is in the certain range of frequencies. So, I don't think some interference can affect download only and not upload. I think it's not a WiFi issue. It seems to me it may be a testing issue.
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Mar 25, 2003
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one of your neighbour have a very old device ??
like welsh-village-figures-out-why-losing-br ... #p33161063

OP did you check if your immediate neighbours have the same issue or not?
if they have same issue, then really some interference

Also using wifi analyzer.
note down which wifi networks SSID are on when your wifi is good
and which new wifi network SSID appears from 7-11 and off after?
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Sep 12, 2007
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Test your speed, eliminate the internet.

Your dlink 868L has a usb port. Get a usb stick, put a 1tb file on there

Download it from a laptop connected via ethernet (disable the wifi radio totally), disconnect and do the same via wifi.

Do this during off and on problem hours.
Deal Addict
Dec 6, 2020
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alpovs wrote: Wavelength and frequency are tied by speed of light. Each channel is in the certain range of frequencies. So, I don't think some interference can affect download only and not upload. I think it's not a WiFi issue. It seems to me it may be a testing issue.
WiFi is a half-duplex networking scheme that uses the same frequency band for both sending and receiving. Upload and download is separated by network protocols that ensure one device transmits on any given block of frequencies at any given time.

See the 802.11 page on Wikipedia for more information.

Limitations in the RF environment impact the total bandwidth available for both upload and download equally, but unless your upload rate is high enough that your wifi is the bottleneck, the limitations of your wifi will not be detectable. Data transfer rates are always limited by the slowest link in the chain between the two devices that are communicating. If the slowest link is not your wifi network, you won't notice the limitations of your wifi network.

For example, if there is too much RF noise to sustain more than a 10 mbps connection over wifi, then you will only get a maximum of 10 mbps in either direction. However, if the upload speed granted by your ISP is only 2 mbps, when you upload, you won't notice that your wifi network is limited to 10 mbps. You will still reach the 2mbps cap imposed by your ISP because your wifi network is capable of transferring data faster than 2mbps and is not the slowest link in the chain.
Member
Jun 20, 2010
471 posts
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alpovs wrote: The last one Rogers, which server? They have many. It doesn't look like speedtest.net. Please try speedtest.net. It always produces consistent results.
I would start copying a large file locally and Windows will show you the rate. Make sure to convert Bytes to bits for comparison.
please look at top right side of the red image, it says speed test. So they way i have understood...most of ISP ( i tried cogeco/Rogers/Shaw...) have speed test related pages on their website and they all embed Ookla/speedtest widget. The look&feel/UX is all the same, just they change the color to match ISP's core color. I consistently get different result if i go through my ISP speedtest widget vs open internet vs another ISP....i have a strong feeling that the tests are partly fake to favor ISP. I do understand that its better to pick a server nearby to avoid hops etc but as long as its in Canada it should be relatively ok as most of the speed test qualified servers should be offering fair speed. And anyway (apologies for repeating), but my problem is not speed from ISP as exactly same test at same time with ethernet cable to modem works perfectly fine. So i think we can rule out the Speedtest/or whatever test service is used (atleast IMHO). At this point in time all of the above - google speed test widget, fast, ookla/speed test are all giving me 60+ down and 10+ up...but around 7pm it topples. So yeah i do understand one speed test is better vs other(or reliable is the word) but if i do the same test just 30 second apart with wired connection and wireless...it is almost apple vs apple

@bytes to bits, for sure ... thanks
Member
Jun 20, 2010
471 posts
248 upvotes
vodka wrote: This is not a setting issue anywhere. The fact that it's happening on JUST wireless, and between 7-11 points to an interference from a neighbour.

What I question, and I don't know enough to say, is why is your upload speed unaffected - can someone chime in here, do the transmit signals and receive signals operate at different wavelengths such that one could be affected by EMI (more) and one not?

Someone suggested, and I second it, get a long patch cable, 30 feet, or longer, move the wifi router far from where it is, move it to the opposite side of the house and see. If anything you will know which neighbour to talk to! :)
Would try that, 30 feet cable would be costly ...just for this test :)
alpovs wrote: Wavelength and frequency are tied by speed of light. Each channel is in the certain range of frequencies. So, I don't think some interference can affect download only and not upload. I think it's not a WiFi issue. It seems to me it may be a testing issue.
Testing issue? could you expand please....what am doing is pretty simple if we ignore all big posts
1) Connect wireless do a speed test (with atleast 3 speed tests tools and i dont compare their speed between them)
2) connect via ethernet and repeat same speed tests again (with all 3-4 utilities)
I see invariably the download speed drops to 2 MB from 60 MB around 4 hours in the evening. Its not like sometimes, some days...its every day for last few weeks. I noticed when my OTT videos started to buffer and then i did some speed tests and just doubting my wifi i also did a wired test.
The good point that came is i would try to put a file on USB and try to download to see my local environment behavior
Keigotw wrote: one of your neighbour have a very old device ??
like welsh-village-figures-out-why-losing-br ... #p33161063

OP did you check if your immediate neighbours have the same issue or not?
if they have same issue, then really some interference

Also using wifi analyzer.
note down which wifi networks SSID are on when your wifi is good
and which new wifi network SSID appears from 7-11 and off after?
thanks would do that
vodka wrote: Test your speed, eliminate the internet.

Your dlink 868L has a usb port. Get a usb stick, put a 1tb file on there

Download it from a laptop connected via ethernet (disable the wifi radio totally), disconnect and do the same via wifi.

Do this during off and on problem hours.
good point, would do it sometime this evening
middleofnowhere wrote: WiFi is a half-duplex networking scheme that uses the same frequency band for both sending and receiving. Upload and download is separated by network protocols that ensure one device transmits on any given block of frequencies at any given time.

See the 802.11 page on Wikipedia for more information.

Limitations in the RF environment impact the total bandwidth available for both upload and download equally, but unless your upload rate is high enough that your wifi is the bottleneck, the limitations of your wifi will not be detectable. Data transfer rates are always limited by the slowest link in the chain between the two devices that are communicating. If the slowest link is not your wifi network, you won't notice the limitations of your wifi network.

For example, if there is too much RF noise to sustain more than a 10 mbps connection over wifi, then you will only get a maximum of 10 mbps in either direction. However, if the upload speed granted by your ISP is only 2 mbps, when you upload, you won't notice that your wifi network is limited to 10 mbps. You will still reach the 2mbps cap imposed by your ISP because your wifi network is capable of transferring data faster than 2mbps and is not the slowest link in the chain.
please take a note of wired vs wireless test that i talk about, so problem is not with ISP....as i get 60 down/10 up consistently with a wired connection and all hours of the day except around 7-11pm even wireless i get same speeds.

i am almost settling on - interference ( not sure how to find it except a long ethernet cable to take wifi router away. Which i would look into...now and a local test with USB plugged to router and moving it to different location in house)...though if its interference not sure how to find it. Would check with neighbours as well...

thanks guys
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Apr 25, 2005
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North York
"please take a note of wired vs wireless test that i talk about, so problem is not with ISP....as i get 60 down/10 up consistently with a wired connection and all hours of the day except around 7-11pm even wireless i get same speeds."

I think this statement is throwing everybody off. When you say wired connection, are you saying the host device (PC) is connected directly to the cable modem? What IP address are you getting? An internal 192.168.*.* address or a valid external IP address. This will confirm whether modem device is in bridge mode or not. Do you have a second ethernet cable? During the trouble period, you want the host device to connect to the router via ethernet. If the connection is still slow, this will eliminate wifi as the issue.

From your description of the issue, there seems to be "time of day" class of service configured either on the router or the modem device. Are you sure the modem is running in bridge mode?
Deal Addict
Nov 21, 2007
3433 posts
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Scarborough
anti_maniac wrote: ....
- Throughout the day both wired and wireless speed tests give me >60 MB down and >10 MB up
- So far so good, now[ every evening from around 7 pm - 11pm my wireless speed tests drop to 2 MBPS down and >10 MBPS up.....
I have tried everything ....
100% neighbor interference. Moving this connecting that is not going to solve time specific speed drop.

My $5 is on this mentioned below:
Keigotw wrote: one of your neighbour have a very old device ??
like welsh-village-figures-out-why-losing-br ... #p33161063

OP did you check if your immediate neighbours have the same issue or not?
....
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Nov 15, 2020
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I know it's a long shot, but could you plug your router into a different wall outlet, or even UPS?
Member
Jun 20, 2010
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evilYoda wrote: I know it's a long shot, but could you plug your router into a different wall outlet, or even UPS?
Different plug i will, in the evening with the USB with a big file test....as i dont have long ethernet cable so the file download test is what am targeting.
UPS - i dont have one unfortunately.
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Sep 16, 2013
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@anti_maniac, I don't understand why you seem to ignore perhaps the most reliable speed test site - speedtest.net. Those widgets connect you to random servers, maybe that's why you see random results. There are many Rogers test servers in different cities. Does it show you where you are connected when you use that site in red? If you always choose the same server on speedtest.net you can reliably compare the results. Path to remote servers to WA and CA depend on peering agreements of your ISP. Maybe in the evening routers in the middle of that path get overloaded. Maybe when you connect via Ethernet at the same time you randomly connect to a server in Toronto. BTW, I don't think speed tests can favor ISPs. The bottleneck in speeds is determined by physical connection.
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Nov 15, 2009
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Post Number 26 where OP attached a Pic.

If the blue pen marking is your internet line

Think about changing two item

1) In Security where it says WPA-PSK change this to WPA2-PSK

2) In Cipher where it says TKIP-CCPM change this to CCMP (in router it probably goes by name of AES) I think I had problem with TKIP

Remember Channel 11,6 and 1 are best

Do speedtest.net and see download and upload speed.
Member
Jun 20, 2010
471 posts
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alpovs wrote: @anti_maniac, I don't understand why you seem to ignore perhaps the most reliable speed test site - speedtest.net. Those widgets connect you to random servers, maybe that's why you see random results. There are many Rogers test servers in different cities. Does it show you where you are connected when you use that site in red? If you always choose the same server on speedtest.net you can reliably compare the results. Path to remote servers to WA and CA depend on peering agreements of your ISP. Maybe in the evening routers in the middle of that path get overloaded. Maybe when you connect via Ethernet at the same time you randomly connect to a server in Toronto. BTW, I don't think speed tests can favor ISPs. The bottleneck in speeds is determined by physical connection.
dont get me wrong, but speedtest in three consecutive tests gave me anything from 2 to 10 to 15. And i was facing major buffering issues on OTT content....so my experience on network matched what all others showed consistently except speedtest . Anyhow to avoid sidelining the discussion or getting into wrong debate, here is a picture on speedtest (original site) for you.

@with and without wire, i have chosen always same server explicitly but as i said lets cut this debate in your favor. (image uploaded/attached)
MasterMK wrote: Post Number 26 where OP attached a Pic.

If the blue pen marking is your internet line

Think about changing two item

1) In Security where it says WPA-PSK change this to WPA2-PSK

2) In Cipher where it says TKIP-CCPM change this to CCMP (in router it probably goes by name of AES) I think I had problem with TKIP

Remember Channel 11,6 and 1 are best

Do speedtest.net and see download and upload speed.
thanks, i would do the change a bit later in the evening and revert back. I hope this puts the nail in the coffin ( i also have a pending test by changing the channel number and file download in local network over wifi ....weekdays are tough to say the least :) lol )

edit : my dlink 868L doesnt have an option to chose WPA2-PSK ( only has WEP, WPA-PSK or None). I would try to load DD-WRT over weekend as i read on some forum that with DD-WRT it is possible to have WPA2 on 868l.
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Jun 20, 2010
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gche_99 wrote: "please take a note of wired vs wireless test that i talk about, so problem is not with ISP....as i get 60 down/10 up consistently with a wired connection and all hours of the day except around 7-11pm even wireless i get same speeds."

I think this statement is throwing everybody off. When you say wired connection, are you saying the host device (PC) is connected directly to the cable modem? What IP address are you getting? An internal 192.168.*.* address or a valid external IP address. This will confirm whether modem device is in bridge mode or not. Do you have a second ethernet cable? During the trouble period, you want the host device to connect to the router via ethernet. If the connection is still slow, this will eliminate wifi as the issue.

From your description of the issue, there seems to be "time of day" class of service configured either on the router or the modem device. Are you sure the modem is running in bridge mode?
apologies i missed replying this one, sorry for my bad english...when i say wired connection i mean i am directly connecting my modem ethernet port and my laptop ethernet port with a cable (my wifi router is not in the middle)....and yes i have tried a second ethernet cable. But i dont think its a problem at ethernet cable level as with direct connection to modem i get perfect 60 MB down and 10 MB up....so problem is definitely on wifi.
@bridged or not bridged, does it make any difference now? as i am getting good speed when directly connected to modem. IF you still want me to check bridged or not, please revert back and i would do that check as well and post it back.
Deal Addict
Sep 12, 2007
2952 posts
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Eliminate your wifi router 868 as the problem. Plug your ethernet cable and laptop in the back of your dlink 868L.
Test for speed 60/10 with your laptop during problem hours and non problem hours.
If you this is working at any time (60/10 via ethernet on back of 868), then, again, it points to the wifi.
If you are NOT, then the 868L has something wrong with it**.

**Someone mentioned "there seems to be "time of day" class of service configured either on the router or the modem device"
>Check manual; there is a schedule feature on the 868 where you can set rules at specific times.
Did you check this?
I think you mentioned you did a factory reset, are you sure? If there is a rule to throttle it down to 2Mbps during that time, this could be it.

There are 2 versions of 868, A and B - which do you have?

WPA
>You need to set it to WPA, then you can choose WPA or WPA2 (look in the manual)

My suggestion is to download the manual (for your version) in PDF format, search the PDF for some of the suggestions on this thread.
Deal Guru
Feb 4, 2015
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Canada, Eh!!
vodka wrote: This is not a setting issue anywhere. The fact that it's happening on JUST wireless, and between 7-11 points to an interference from a neighbour.

All possibilities.
Baby monitors, wireless speakers, bluetooth devices, microwaves, garage door openers, amateur radios, cordless phones that are on 2.4 (no 900mhz), personal radios. Interesting graphic:
Once you find out what that is, you will be able to resolve it.

What I question, and I don't know enough to say, is why is your upload speed unaffected - can someone chime in here, do the transmit signals and receive signals operate at different wavelengths such that one could be affected by EMI (more) and one not?

Someone suggested, and I second it, get a long patch cable, 30 feet, or longer, move the wifi router far from where it is, move it to the opposite side of the house and see. If anything you will know which neighbour to talk to! :)
Don't quite understand that as well but can attest to upload speeds on our network being higher or near cap even when download speeds are wonky.

So sometimes get less then 1 Mbps but around 20 Mbps upload!! Have not figured out yet although been more stable since started using a cat 6 cable but did some router tweaks as well [already mentioned in other posts] at same time so not sure what, if anything, helped.
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Sr. Member
Apr 8, 2020
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Did you try different router ?
Can you get one from friend
or maybe buy something cheap - just to check
Deal Addict
Sep 12, 2007
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reefer123 wrote: Did you try different router ?
Can you get one from friend
or maybe buy something cheap - just to check
He already did this
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Nov 21, 2002
12014 posts
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Winnipeg
vodka wrote: Test your speed, eliminate the internet.

Your dlink 868L has a usb port. Get a usb stick, put a 1tb file on there

Download it from a laptop connected via ethernet (disable the wifi radio totally), disconnect and do the same via wifi.

Do this during off and on problem hours.
Its a usb 3 port and those need to be disabled on all routers as when in use they bleed interference with 2.4ghz signal. If the option to disable usb 3.0 speed is offered disable and enable usb 2.0 only instead.
anti_maniac wrote: dont get me wrong, but speedtest in three consecutive tests gave me anything from 2 to 10 to 15. And i was facing major buffering issues on OTT content....so my experience on network matched what all others showed consistently except speedtest . Anyhow to avoid sidelining the discussion or getting into wrong debate, here is a picture on speedtest (original site) for you.

@with and without wire, i have chosen always same server explicitly but as i said lets cut this debate in your favor. (image uploaded/attached)



thanks, i would do the change a bit later in the evening and revert back. I hope this puts the nail in the coffin ( i also have a pending test by changing the channel number and file download in local network over wifi ....weekdays are tough to say the least :) lol )

edit : my dlink 868L doesnt have an option to chose WPA2-PSK ( only has WEP, WPA-PSK or None). I would try to load DD-WRT over weekend as i read on some forum that with DD-WRT it is possible to have WPA2 on 868l.
868l is broadcom I would look at tomato. merlin for supported broadcom routers that can use it. Tomato for most broadcom socs. Openwrt for atheros or mediatek socs.

My guess since its primetime its interference and or if your in a home with a family. Your router's wifi can't handle the high client juggling well with the additional congestion and interference on top it can't supported a dedicated wpa2 and uses mix mode and the router is eol with old firmware probably only receiving security issues now not fixes.

So things like how many Iot and clients you use when they schedule stuff is something you can change like disabling wifi and running a dedicated wireless ap that can handle clients better than router wifi solutions. If its interference like microwaves, and competing channels from neighbors perhaps the 868l isn't upto snuff for coverage with stock firmware since its eol. That doesn't mean you should stop using it. Run tomato if possible, disable wifi and add a proper decent wireless ap.

You should check the router logs just to be sure your not seeing things like a wack of wifi micro disconnects during file transfer.

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