Automotive

Takata - the never ending saga...

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  • Dec 7th, 2019 3:03 pm
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[OP]
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Takata - the never ending saga...

The crappy Takata airbag situation just got a little crappier and is going to continue to take years more before being fully dealt with. Thankfully, most of the latest affected vehicles would be like 20+ yrs old now so chances are most aren’t on the road any more, but that said I’ll bet the ones that still are won’t get the message because the manufacturers have lost touch with whoever the new owner is and where they live so they’re not going to get a notice. Plus they probably don’t go to a dealer to get service work done so they’ll be driving around blissfully ignorant of the danger lurking in their steering wheel....



Takata airbag fault forces recall of another 1.4 million vehicles

By Michelle Toh, CNN Business
Updated 5:13 AM EST, Thu December 05, 2019

Hong Kong(CNN Business) Faulty Takata airbags have already caused the largest auto recall in history, with tens of millions of cars affected. Now a newly discovered defect has prompted the recall of another 1.4 million vehicles.

These cars were recalled on Wednesday, authorities in the United States said.

As with the wider ongoing recall, the new fault can cause airbag inflators to explode, under-inflate or spew out shrapnel at passengers, raising the risk of serious injury or death, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

The airbags involved in the latest recall were found to have "a manufacturing issue," and were fitted to "some brands of 1995-2000 vehicles," the agency said in a notice posted on its website. It gave no further details.

Takata produced and sold around 4.5 million of the airbags with the new fault globally in the late 1990s, but only a fraction of the vehicles fitted with them are likely still being driven, according to government documents.

As many as 41.6 million vehicles with Takata airbags have been recalled in the United States so far, according to the US Department of Transportation. In total, 34 auto brands have been affected, from Ferrari (RACE)to Ford (F).

Ruptured airbags have been linked to at least 29 deaths and hundreds of injuries around the globe, according to the Australian government.

The crisis caused Takata to file for bankruptcy in 2017. The Japanese company then sold most of its operations to Key Safety Systems, a Chinese-owned company based in Michigan, for $1.6 billion.

US federal safety regulators have previously said that it could take until 2023 for the recall to be complete — a full 15 years after the first car was ordered back to the workshop.

In the coming month, Takata will be working with automakers to assess which vehicles could be affected by its latest problem, according to US authorities.

"As this work progresses, numerous vehicle recalls will likely be announced," they said.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com ... index.html
20 replies
Deal Guru
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Feb 23, 2008
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Brampton
So both driver and passenger air bags need to be replaced?
Lets Go Blue Jays!!!
Deal Guru
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Mar 9, 2007
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Think of the Childre…
yeah
cheapmeister wrote: So both driver and passenger air bags need to be replaced?

WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Deal Guru
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Feb 23, 2008
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Brampton
Cheapo-Findo wrote: yeah
So for the last 19 yrs I was driving around with a bomb that can blow off my face and my passenger's face too? :facepalm:
Lets Go Blue Jays!!!
Deal Guru
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Mar 9, 2007
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Think of the Childre…
yeah
cheapmeister wrote: So for the last 19 yrs I was driving around with a bomb that can blow off my face and my passenger's face too? :facepalm:

WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Deal Addict
Apr 22, 2013
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Markham
At the rate this is going, it seems like every single Takata airbag will be recalled. They started making airbags in 1988 and we're now up to cars as old as 1995 to be recalled.

All we can now hope for is that Autoliv and TRW(now under ZF) didn't have such awful business ethics as Takata had.
Deal Addict
Apr 26, 2013
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Toronto
I got a recall on the new airbag they installed after the first recall, now that was ridiculous.
Deal Fanatic
Aug 29, 2011
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Are there that many 90’s-era cars still on the road?
Deal Expert
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May 10, 2005
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Are there any cars that have a safe airbag system out there? Seems every time you turn around another band o model of car is being recalled for the airbag.
The Government cannot give to anybody anything that the Government does not first take from somebody else.
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Dec 28, 2007
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WMPCOT wrote: I got a recall on the new airbag they installed after the first recall, now that was ridiculous.
Same with ours. I'm waiting for the letter for the 3rd recall. It's amazing that Takata is still in business.
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Jan 23, 2015
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mrweather wrote: Are there that many 90’s-era cars still on the road?
There's enough... Especially sport/muscle cars, heck I own one.
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Jan 7, 2006
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Toronto
mrweather wrote: Are there that many 90’s-era cars still on the road?
Can't speak for 90s but when I brought my 03 accord beater in for the recall, the Honda dealer lot was full of old shitboxes of similar vintage. Was like a rust fest... Atleast 30 early y2k accords, Oddesey's, Civics on the lot or in service bays.
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Apr 22, 2013
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Markham
jackrabbit000 wrote: Same with ours. I'm waiting for the letter for the 3rd recall. It's amazing that Takata is still in business.
Actually Takata is not, as a business its defunct its filed Chapter 11 in the US and is under bankruptcy protection in Japan. The only thing left of them is processing all the recalls and lawsuits, if they ever end it will be completely defunct. What's left of Takata's airbag production assets went to Joyson Safety Systems.
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Sep 16, 2004
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mrweather wrote: Are there that many 90’s-era cars still on the road?
Yes. Especially in the USA further south below the salt belt where no road salt is used, the cars seem to last much longer.
[OP]
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mrweather wrote: Are there that many 90’s-era cars still on the road?
Quick back of the napkin guesstimates a small number:
- Takata said they made 4.5 million in the 1995-2000 era world wide
- with a 2% survival rate that’s 90,000 still on the road
- if we assume 50% are in US & Canada given the size of our markets then that’s 45,000

If it’s split 90-10 then the US has roughly a little over 40,000 and there’s probably a little under 5,000 here in Canada. Halve it again for a 1% survival rate. So, small numbers indeed from several hundred in Canada to several thousand in the USA.

But while it’s a small risk in the overall fleet of vehicles out there, it’s a big risk for those unfortunate enough to still own and drive one.
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CanadianLurker wrote: Quick back of the napkin guesstimates a small number:
- Takata said they made 4.5 million in the 1995-2000 era world wide
- with a 2% survival rate that’s 90,000 still on the road
- if we assume 50% are in US & Canada given the size of our markets then that’s 45,000

If it’s split 90-10 then the US has roughly a little over 40,000 and there’s probably a little under 5,000 here in Canada. Halve it again for a 1% survival rate. So, small numbers indeed from several hundred in Canada to several thousand in the USA.

But while it’s a small risk in the overall fleet of vehicles out there, it’s a big risk for those unfortunate enough to still own and drive one.
"Currently, approximately 41.6 million vehicles are under recall for defective Takata air bag inflators. But approximately 56 million defective Takata air bag inflators have been recalled."
https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/takata-recall-spotlight

"On June 25, 2017, Takata filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the United States and filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan, owing more in compensation than is possible for its survival. The surviving assets are to be sold to its largest competitor, Chinese owned and U.S. (Michigan) based Key Safety Systems, for about $1.6 billion. On April 11, 2018, following the completion of Key Safety System's acquisition of Takata, the company announced that the company would be renamed to Joyson Safety Systems, and continue to operate in Michigan as Key Safety Systems had."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takata_Corporation

Hence my question "Are there any cars that have a safe airbag system out there?"
The Government cannot give to anybody anything that the Government does not first take from somebody else.
[OP]
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Pete_Coach wrote: "Currently, approximately 41.6 million vehicles are under recall for defective Takata air bag inflators. But approximately 56 million defective Takata air bag inflators have been recalled."
https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/takata-recall-spotlight

"On June 25, 2017, Takata filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the United States and filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan, owing more in compensation than is possible for its survival. The surviving assets are to be sold to its largest competitor, Chinese owned and U.S. (Michigan) based Key Safety Systems, for about $1.6 billion. On April 11, 2018, following the completion of Key Safety System's acquisition of Takata, the company announced that the company would be renamed to Joyson Safety Systems, and continue to operate in Michigan as Key Safety Systems had."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takata_Corporation

Hence my question "Are there any cars that have a safe airbag system out there?"
Yes, there are a decent number given the population of the fleet.

There are 272 million registered vehicles in the USA. Pulling out the napkin again, we need to do some adjustments to ballpark some figures.

If we take 25% off the top to account for motorcycles, buses, semis, etc, the that leaves 204 million cars, light trucks, and SUVs.

If we assume 90% of these are 1998 or newer then that leaves 183.6 million vehicles with airbags since they became mandatory in the US in 1998.

That puts roughly 1 in 4 having a Takata airbag meaning that 3 in 4 don’t - so yes, there are a good number or non-Takata vehicles available out there.

Even if you take 50% off the top for motorcycles, buses, semis, etc then 1 in 3 has a Takata airbag while 2 in 3 don’t.

You can play around with the assumptions, and while 41.6 million is a lot of vehicles, there are still at least that many that are not affected by this Takata scandal. Not trying to minimize the issue as it is ridiculously widespread, but there are millions of vehicles on the road that have a safe system.

How many registered motor vehicles are there in the U.S.?
Some 272.48 million vehicles were registered here in 2017. The figures include passenger cars, motorcycles, trucks, buses, and other vehicles. The number of cars sold in the U.S. per year stood at 6.3 million in 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... ince-1990/


Taking a different angle, according to NHTSA airbags have saved 50,000 lives while the Takata bags have killed far fewer than that.

Overview

From 1987 to 2017, frontal air bags saved 50,457 lives. That’s enough people to fill a major league ballpark.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/air-bags
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CanadianLurker wrote: Yes, there are a decent number given the population of the fleet.

There are 272 million registered vehicles in the USA. Pulling out the napkin again, we need to do some adjustments to ballpark some figures.

If we take 25% off the top to account for motorcycles, buses, semis, etc, the that leaves 204 million cars, light trucks, and SUVs.

If we assume 90% of these are 1998 or newer then that leaves 183.6 million vehicles with airbags since they became mandatory in the US in 1998.

That puts roughly 1 in 4 having a Takata airbag meaning that 3 in 4 don’t - so yes, there are a good number or non-Takata vehicles available out there.

Even if you take 50% off the top for motorcycles, buses, semis, etc then 1 in 3 has a Takata airbag while 2 in 3 don’t.

You can play around with the assumptions, and while 41.6 million is a lot of vehicles, there are still at least that many that are not affected by this Takata scandal. Not trying to minimize the issue as it is ridiculously widespread, but there are millions of vehicles on the road that have a safe system.

How many registered motor vehicles are there in the U.S.?
Some 272.48 million vehicles were registered here in 2017. The figures include passenger cars, motorcycles, trucks, buses, and other vehicles. The number of cars sold in the U.S. per year stood at 6.3 million in 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... ince-1990/


Taking a different angle, according to NHTSA airbags have saved 50,000 lives while the Takata bags have killed far fewer than that.

Overview

From 1987 to 2017, frontal air bags saved 50,457 lives. That’s enough people to fill a major league ballpark.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/air-bags
Thing is, many (if not most) of the recalled vehicles have not been repaired because of lack of parts (as per the auto forums I have been participating in).
The Government cannot give to anybody anything that the Government does not first take from somebody else.
[OP]
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Pete_Coach wrote: Thing is, many (if not most) of the recalled vehicles have not been repaired because of lack of parts (as per the auto forums I have been participating in).
Yes, that’s a problem. Then add to that the current owners who aren’t registered in the manufacturer’s database any more, or are in the system but with an out of date address. This means no recall notices are getting thru to these owners/drivers. Then add the owners who never go back to the dealer for anything so theres no service advisor telling them that they have an open recall on their vehicle.

I suspect a few million are out there blissfully unaware they’re actually at risk and are affected by one of these open recalls!

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