TDSB English 11 Curriculum Changes

ADenariusSaved wrote: ↑ No opinion here, I thought Shakespeare was useless too. I often use the Shakespeare argument to denigrate the education system. Citing that they teach Shakespeare, but not to take on 20-500% APR debt + not being able to file taxes.

That's a separate issue, though, isn't it? The argument here is about changing what books are studied in Grade 11 English, not swapping out English for Personal Finance.

JHW wrote: ↑ That's a separate issue, though, isn't it? The argument here is about changing what books are studied in Grade 11 English, not swapping out English for Personal Finance.

You're right, I think I have like...ADHD...

ADenariusSaved wrote: ↑ “I’ve had friends say Shakespeare is irrelevant”: Meet the Grade 12 student who changed the TDSB’s English curriculum"

https://torontolife.com/city/ive-had-fr ... urriculum/

One of the most important lessons I've learned in life is that, it never hurts to ask. And you won't get anything if you don't...
So why not?

No opinion here, I thought Shakespeare was useless too. I often use the Shakespeare argument to denigrate the education system. Citing that they teach Shakespeare, but not to take on 20-500% APR debt + not being able to file taxes.

Shakespeare is the foundational of our language so important. More important though and honestly whey I think this change is not bad in many ways, is kids need to read things that are outside their comfort zone. These texts will be tough slogs. They'll learn a bit though the idea they don't know about most of this isn't consistent with what kids I meet tell me they know. They will also probably have to skip Coles Notes, Internet Essays and the like as it will be Ontario only curriculum.

If i were to revamp the education system from scratch i would adjust the English requirements.
Frankly Shakespeare is good at what he did but its not that important for all students to read so many of his plays. Unless they want to, but one can argue with how much literature every student needs vs those who want to go into that area.

In the end the current educational system has been amended so many times that it has blind spots and over representation of things that are obsolete. And missing things it now needs. Its not recreated from scratch, its design has been path dependent which has led to some compounded oversights and misallocations.

Shakespeare will still be taught in Grades 9, 10, and 12 but English teachers and departments that choose to use his work. Shakespeare is not a required part of the Ontario high school English curriculum. The skills outlined in the curriculum can be developed using a variety of texts which may or may not include Shakespeare. My ENG3U teacher didn't use Shakespeare.

OntEdTchr wrote: ↑ Shakespeare will still be taught in Grades 9, 10, and 12 but English teachers and departments that choose to use his work. Shakespeare is not a required part of the Ontario high school English curriculum. The skills outlined in the curriculum can be developed using a variety of texts which may or may not include Shakespeare. My ENG3U teacher didn't use Shakespeare.

I had to do Shakespeare. I didn't mind Twelfth night, but Romeo and Juliet, MacBeth, and King Lear were kind of boring snoozefests and just dark (latter two). As an RFDer I really would have preferred the Merchant of Venice - at least you can learn something useful out of that one- like lending and borrowing and pounds of flesh. Early modern English isn't really useful to learn either. I think it has a place in society/arts, but in a standardized English class where adult graduates still write, "did u see dat thot?"

OntEdTchr wrote: ↑ Shakespeare will still be taught in Grades 9, 10, and 12 but English teachers and departments that choose to use his work. Shakespeare is not a required part of the Ontario high school English curriculum. The skills outlined in the curriculum can be developed using a variety of texts which may or may not include Shakespeare. My ENG3U teacher didn't use Shakespeare.

I guess you mean Ontario students can read a Shakespeare play in grade 9 10 and 12? I don't think Ontario students are graduating having read three Shakespeare plays.

fogetmylogin wrote: ↑ I guess you mean Ontario students can read a Shakespeare play in grade 9 10 and 12? I don't think Ontario students are graduating having read three Shakespeare plays.

The word "but" in the text you quoted was a typo. It should be "by."

It's possible that some are graduating having read no Shakespeare plays, and others are graduating having read more than three. I read R&J, Twelfth Night, and Taming of the Shrew. English departments and English teachers may choose to incorporate Shakespeare into their courses. Many do. Probably most do. The Ontario curriculum has no required texts in ENG1D, ENG2D, and ENG4U (Grade 9, 10, and 12 academic/University courses). The new NBE3U which is replacing ENG3U in Grade 11 also doesn't have any required text, as far as I can tell.

Shakespeare is in many ways foundational to later English literature and touches on universal themes, and thus is important to keep in the curriculum. I disagree with those who call him "irrelevant" (many proponents of this change are using that kind of language).

But I agree that we don't need Shakespeare in every year. Back in the day (era of Grade 13 in ON) we did one Shakespeare per year -- Richard III, Julius Caesar, Macbeth, Hamlet, King Lear. It was probably overkill. But they pushed us hard and we read a lot of other stuff too. The important part is to get kids reading and thinking.

Love reading, loved English class, hated Shakespeare. In my experience, the overemphasis on him turned off more students than inspired.