A teller asked what a cheque I eas depositing for.

M8Rxmjsik wrote: ↑That's odd.

There are some transactions which are mandatory to report to FINTRAC, and then there are suspicious transactions to report.

A bank is supposed to train their staff on what qualifies as suspicious, regardless of the dollar amount.

Like I said in my pevious post, "I know we have AML rules and KYC rules in the industry, and there are certain scenarios where we should be asking questions...".

Here is a scenario which actually happened. A person gives me $9,900 cash at a CIBC branch in Oakville; they live at College/Spadina in Toronto. They ask me to wire the funds to a bank in China using RBC as an intermediary.

So, this is a suspicious transaction for two reasons:

1) The person is aware of the FINTRAC reporting, as they are giving me $100 cash less than the amount that triggers a Large Cash Transaction Report that is sent to FINTRAC

2) The person is asking me to use RBC as an intermediary for their wire when that is not required; i.e. they are "layering" the transaction, which suggests Money Laundering

So in that instance, after the transaction is completed and the person has left, I am required to file a Suspicious Transaction Report which is sent to CIBC AML Division. I cannot do or say anything to tip the person off that I am filling out a Suspicious Transaction Report, as that would be illegal and I would be held criminally liable for my actions.

Here is another scenario that actually happened:

A client phones me to remove a hold. The client just opened the account. Her ATM limit is set at $300/day, with a cap of $900/week. The day is Thursday. Her account history looks like this.


Monday - $300 ATM Deposit
Monday - $300 ATM WD
End of Day Balance: $0

Tuesday - $300 ATM Deposit
Tuesday - $300 ATM WD
End of Day Balance: $0

Wednesday - $300 ATM Deposit
Wednesday - $300 ATM WD
End of Day Balance: $0

Thursday - $300 ATM Deposit
Balance: $300 Holds: $300

So, the client started with a zero dollar balance. She has been making ATM transactions all week. Her account balance is currently $300. The funds are on hold, as she has reached her ATM limit and needs a bank employee to manually remove the hold. I had a feeling the client was kiting, so I declined her hold request and referred the matter to her Branch Manager. Sure enough, all the ATM deposits were empty enevelopes. Once the account was adjusted, the account was closed and the bank incurred a $900 loss.

briandwlee wrote: ↑Did I ask you to check my spelling and grammar in the OP?

Don't get upset, I assumed the same when I read your first post, but later I thought that you could be using a phone to post your message. I was ask a couple of times the same question when I started a new job and was paid by check. I think that was to see if they can offer me a new product or to change my account type or who knows and I didn't care, after a couple of deposits no more holds to my deposited check.

Cerium398 wrote: ↑Here is a scenario which actually happened. A person gives me $9,900 cash...

I would have expected most criminals to know that being just a little under the $10,000 limit doesn't afford any protection since a report is made anyway. Was it common for you to get such obvious cases?

Do you know if the bank or government ever followed-up and closed the account?

FrancisBacon wrote: ↑I would have expected most criminals to know that being just a little under the $10,000 limit doesn't afford any protection since a report is made anyway. Was it common for you to get such obvious cases?

Do you know if the bank or government ever followed-up and closed the account?

Within the next week, I did receive a call from CIBC AML Division at the branch; the officer asked me to describe in more detail the particulars of the transaction, presumably as CIBC AML was going to take some manner of action. I don't know what happened after that. I never saw the client again in the branch.

The only other obvious case I witnessed was where a client was complaining his account had been frozen; I looked at the account history and saw that he received a wire payment and then immediately purchaed a bank draft for $9,900. Again, I can't tell the client that we froze his account because we have reasonable grounds to suspect he is a money launderer.

What does it mean if it's a "regular cheque"?

kocoman wrote: ↑What does it mean if it's a "regular cheque"?

A personal cheque from one individual to another, as opposed to a payroll cheque or government cheque.

Cerium398 wrote: ↑The only other obvious case I witnessed was where a client was complaining his account had been frozen; I looked at the account history and saw that he received a wire payment and then immediately purchaed a bank draft for $9,900. Again, I can't tell the client that we froze his account because we have reasonable grounds to suspect he is a money launderer.

I'm not sure what is suspicious here... He got a wire (which is tracked), and then wanted a bank draft (aren't these numbered and also traceable?). Anyway, even for cash, I thought only deposits are flagged (getting dirty money into the banking system). But how does withdrawing cash or cash-like instruments help launder anything?
If I asked to withdraw $20,000 in cash at my bank, do I have to provide a reason? What if I say "I just want to blow it all", can they block the transaction?

Also, I can understand your first example: you let the transaction go through and then secretly flagged it. But here the account is frozen and the guy doesn't know why. If he is innocent, how does he fight it if he doesn't know the reason?

FrancisBacon wrote: ↑I'm not sure what is suspicious here... He got a wire (which is tracked), and then wanted a bank draft (aren't these numbered and also traceable?). Anyway, even for cash, I thought only deposits are flagged (getting dirty money into the banking system). But how does withdrawing cash or cash-like instruments help launder anything?
If I asked to withdraw $20,000 in cash at my bank, do I have to provide a reason? What if I say "I just want to blow it all", can they block the transaction?

Also, I can understand your first example: you let the transaction go through and then secretly flagged it. But here the account is frozen and the guy doesn't know why. If he is innocent, how does he fight it if he doesn't know the reason?

It may have been a combination of the country where the wire originated, along with the time between him receiving the wire and him taking the draft, along with the amount of the draft ($9,900). Also, the transactions may have been unusual, or out of pattern, for that customer. It may not even have been the first time that this type of transaction occurred on this account.

The rationale for freezing the account (Money Laundering) is never entered on the customer file; the reason be that the customer is entitled to request a hard copy of the file at any time, and the customer would be tipped off that way.

This occured at BMO by the way; my understanding is BMO tends to behave in a far more conservative manner than its counterparts. If (and I am speculating here), upon investigation, BMO determined that the transactions were legit, then the account would be unfrozen.

Money laundering consists of introuducing the "dirty" money into the system through a deposit, "cleaning" it through many layers of transactions (bank drafts, travellers cheques, overpaying credit cards), moving the money from Bank to Bank in many cases, and then ultimately removing it from the system. So perhaps the customer with the bank draft was going to "clean" the money some more.

If you want to withdraw $20,000 in cash, of course you are allowed to withdraw it as long as there are no holds on it. You don't have to tell your branch why. It may take a few business days for the branch to get the hard currency to give to you.

The staff will persuade you to take the funds in a more secure form, such as a bank draft, instead. Ultimately, you will get your $20,000 cash; the staff will make you sign a waiver that states you had the option to take the funds in a more secure form, and we will not be held liable if you get robbed shortly after leaving the branch.

Banks have to do a careful balancing act between security and customer service. Some banks behave differently than others. For example, at CIBC, if you do not have a Telephone Banking password, but you have registered a security word on your profile beforehand, all you have to do is provide that word and you are considered authenticated.

At BMO, in the similar situation, the agent is required to ask you several questions regarding your file, your bank accounts, and your investments or loans (if you have any). And he can't always ask the easy ones, such as "What is your birthday?". I had to refuse service to more than a few people because they could not pass the security process as devised by BMO.

briandwlee wrote: ↑Is it not an English 101 class here.

This made me spit my cream soda out, your salty as *****. Briandwlee do me a favour and hold this L!

work/gift/i blew a hobo

so many options to answer with.

happened to me once I had a cheque from stubhub (concert and sport ticket buy & sell)
it was a weird looking cheque and she asked where it was from I said stubhub and she said what is that and I explained it and had no issues

Buggy166 wrote: ↑work/gift/i blew a hobo

so many options to answer with.

Nope. The answer is none of the above. You tell her it is none of her fucxing business and close your account and take your business elsewhere. They should be grateful enough they're borrowing your money for free instead of hassling you when you want access to your own money, regardless of the amount. Also, banks are an extension of the govts arm, if you don't want the govt. to see what you're doing (regardless of legality) then don't go thru banks, do cash transactions only (e.g. selling your vehicle etc.)

[url=http:// http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/savi ... unter.html]http:// http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/savi ... unter.html[/url]

OP, my mom sometimes gets asked this question when she deposits cheques with a teller (in her case, its usually a paycheque). They don't really grill her after that.

I recently deposited a large cheque to T.D. The clerk seemed to be young and new so when she questioned the cheque I thought she was gungho at her new job. I told her what she wanted to know. The cheque was large but my profile with T.D. is quite healthy so after she had her questions answered it was my turn to ask. I asked why the questions and she said with everything going on out there they ask. Her questions were along the line of, had I accepted a cheque from this person before, did I know them, did I have to send them money. She mentioned people getting bad cheques from selling items on KIjiji.If her asking a few questions saved some trusting person like my elderly mother from being scammed it's great. I worked retail for many years so maybe my outlook is a little different then other people. The last time I withdrew a large amount of money from T.D. I was asked for picture I.D. even though I had my pin and a passbook, that was O.K. with me too knowing no one could get my money but me. Did you ask why they questioned you? Their answer would have been better then people's opinion on this site.( please dont tell me I've spelled gugho wrong I don't how to spell it)

briandwlee wrote: ↑Is it not an English 101 class here. I do not know how much education you've received and what level of English you speak and write, but judging a person with spelling and grammar is highly inappropriate. It could be a typo and sorry for my bad grammar, but does it have something to do with the subject in this thread?

briandwlee wrote: ↑Did I ask you to check my spelling and grammar in the OP?

It's not the typos, but the way you wrote your original post. Go take a look again.

winterpegman wrote: ↑It's a public forum. If you're concerned about having spelling and grammar corrected, you'd best ensure that it doesn't contain any errors.

How do you come up with "judging a person with spelling and grammar is highly inappropriate"? How else do we judge people in a web forum... by their looks and demeanor? Again, if a person has concerns about people judging them by what they're writing/posting, then I'd suggest that A) The person is too worried about what strangers think, or B) They should make a concerted effort at NOT making grammatical errors and spelling mistakes in the first place...then problem solved.

I see this kind of response everywhere claiming the person doing the correction, or pointing it out is at fault. I say no, the person making the error is at fault. More often than not, I've noticed that most people don't comment or correct mere typos...we all have done it, and still do it. But there's a difference between a typo, and simply not knowing how to use the language properly.

+1

The OP not only needs to learn how to write. The OP needs to grow up. It's understandable such attitude gets noticed, and a teller might think something is up with the OP.

vkizzle wrote: ↑Was it 10K or more?
Even if you don't answer, FINTRAC would have investigated that deposit!

What if you are writing a cheque to yourself? Do they still "investigate" you?

I get this every time since I switched to TD. It was pretty annoying, but they have the mobile app for cheque deposits now. No more inquisition for depositing cheques!

KMKM wrote: ↑if you don't want the govt. to see what you're doing (regardless of legality) then don't go thru banks, do cash transactions only (e.g. selling your vehicle etc.)

Ummm, you do know that cars have to be registered with the govt before you can drive on the public roads, right?

Paying in cash for a car doesn't hide very much.