This thread is about my initial fears of car dealers ripping me off and the helpful RFD replies with buying a new car

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Dec 9th, 2022 12:27 am

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Dec 6th, 2022 8:33 pm

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 8:33 pm

This thread is about my initial fears of car dealers ripping me off and the helpful RFD replies with buying a new car

I'm looking to buy a new Toyota RAV4 and after visiting some Toyota dealerships I think this is what is going on and I suppose is the case with other brands. They will give the car without waiting or waiting for long if you tell them you are looking to buy with financing with $0 down payment for 7 years term (or the longest they have). If you say you want to pay cash even after they showed you and you test drive the actual car that you can get, they will say sorry while we were discussing the deal another customer bought it. This actually happened to me. I believe those who order to be paying cash will be put the last on the waiting list and I think they will get cars when the availability increases to the point where nobody will be waiting anyway. Basically when new cars arrive, from the waiting list they are choosing to give it to those who will pay most money to the dealership. If you have the cash you can pay the rest of the term at once after buying with financing and this will save you paying interest but what you are losing is the administrative fees for the financing which is about $3000. In other words if you have the cash it will costs you about $3000 more to get the car without waiting or to be put on top of the list.

Yeah, unfortunately It sucks to be a new car buyer these days.

edit: I'm attaching a link to the quote one of the dealers gave me
Your text to link here...

Last edited by Ross12345 on Dec 7th, 2022 10:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.

83 replies

Dec 6th, 2022 8:43 pm

guessguy: Deal Addict; Feb 19, 2004; 2131 posts; 531 upvotes; Mississauga

Dec 6th, 2022 8:43 pm

is there an option to pay off the loan after one month? Sign up for the financing option and pay it off in full to screw them of the interest.

+3

Dec 6th, 2022 8:49 pm

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 8:49 pm

guessguy wrote: ↑ is there an option to pay off the loan after one month? Sign up for the financing option and pay it off in full to screw them of the interest.

Yes that can be done, but as I said you will have to pay the administration fees for the financing which in my case was about $3000

+4

Dec 6th, 2022 8:53 pm

lamin: Deal Addict; Jan 21, 2011; 1198 posts; 618 upvotes; GTA

Dec 6th, 2022 8:53 pm

I think we should start naming all these dealerships and see how the redflag effects works in the opposite trend. We are allowed to look out for each other right? Would this be breaking any forum rules?

+9

Dec 6th, 2022 9:01 pm

kkkat: Deal Addict; Dec 14, 2007; 1769 posts; 1254 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 9:01 pm

Ross12345 wrote: ↑ Yes that can be done, but as I said you will have to pay the administration fees for the financing which in my case was about $3000

Admin financing fee of $3000. LOL

This is not news. Been discussed before in the new car wait time thread. Generally you can get a car much quicker if you pay more whether it’s addon or markup or this financing fee you experienced or get bent over on a trade in. As some pointed out multiple times, don’t buy a car unless absolutely have to, especially on a mass produced depreciating appliance.

+8

Dec 6th, 2022 9:30 pm

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 9:30 pm

kkkat wrote: ↑ don’t buy a car unless absolutely have to, especially on a mass produced depreciating appliance.

I don't think there are people who can't realize this. In my case my car engine failed at 500 000 Km and there is no replacement for it. Currently I'm driving a rental car which is costing me a lot. I don't think people buying these days cars have reasons less serous than mine.

lamin wrote: ↑ I think we should start naming all these dealerships and see how the redflag effects works in the opposite trend. We are allowed to look out for each other right? Would this be breaking any forum rules?

I was not on any waiting list, I only had inquired information about RAV4 from various dealers. Yesterday I received two calls one from Bolton Toyota and one form Scarborough Toyota saying the same thing - a customer has canceled an order and there is a brand new 2022 RAV4 available in stock to buy it if I want. So I went to visit both and they were ready to sell it to me but when I mentioned the cash all of a sudden the car was not available anymore in both dealerships and I can only order it by being on the waiting list. If there is a waiting list why didn't they call the next person on the list but me when I'm not on any waiting list. I guess they are running out of buyers paying in the most expensive way and they are now looking for them.

+2

Dec 6th, 2022 10:01 pm

StatsGuy: Deal Fanatic; Dec 20, 2018; 7653 posts; 6825 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 10:01 pm

Ross12345 wrote: ↑ I don't think there are people who can't realize this. In my case my car engine failed at 500 000 Km and there is no replacement for it. Currently I'm driving a rental car which is costing me a lot. I don't think people buying these days cars have reasons less serous than mine.

I was not on any waiting list, I only had inquired information about RAV4 from various dealers. Yesterday I received two calls one from Bolton Toyota and one form Scarborough Toyota saying the same thing - a customer has canceled an order and there is a brand new 2022 RAV4 available in stock to buy it if I want. So I went to visit both and they were ready to sell it to me but when I mentioned the cash all of a sudden the car was not available anymore in both dealerships and I can only order it by being on the waiting list. If there is a waiting list why didn't they call the next person on the list but me when I'm not on any waiting list. I guess they are running out of buyers paying in the most expensive way and they are now looking for them.

How do you know it was there to begin with even with financing? They often say there's a car that just got canceled or extra allocation just to get you to go and once there and you talk, regardless of how it's being purchased, it's "just been sold"

Afaik, dealers get nothing from financing if it's through the manufacturer..they get kickbacks for financing through other lenders (eg used car or someone with poor credit and can't get manufacturer financing)

Most likely you were just mislead to get down to the dealer and there was never any new car regardless

+4

Dec 6th, 2022 10:10 pm

Pupsik27: Member; Oct 7, 2017; 494 posts; 630 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 10:10 pm

This should be brought up to Toyota HQ, and complained to a government body that oversees these types of problems.

+3

Dec 6th, 2022 10:38 pm

jmc111: Deal Addict; Mar 10, 2014; 2731 posts; 2814 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 10:38 pm

BofC raising the interest rates again tomorrow another 0.25 or 0.50 basis points. This will increase the cost of financing/lease rates in the near future. Dealers will get more desperate with their antics to put you at the front of the line at a cost. The slowdown in the next 6 months will be interesting for new car buying.

I still look at a vehicle as a depreciating asset which you can easily lose big if someone rear ends you. Really sucks to be buying any kind of vehicle at this time.

Last edited by jmc111 on Dec 6th, 2022 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

+5

Dec 6th, 2022 10:39 pm

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 10:39 pm

StatsGuy wrote: ↑ How do you know it was there to begin with even with financing?

I made a test drive a brand new 2022 RAV4 on the dealers parking lot with only 13Km on the odometer and protective tapes all over the car and he told me this is the actual car if I buy it today. After he spent a lot of time explaining the financing, he was ready to sell it to me because I was hiding my intention to pay with cash till the very end. Then I told him that I want to co-own the car with my doughtier who was not with me but will give her a call. Then I told him that my daughter is offering cash. He told me to wait and went away. When he came back he said someone else got the car.

+5

Dec 6th, 2022 11:02 pm

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 11:02 pm

Pupsik27 wrote: ↑ This should be brought up to Toyota HQ, and complained to a government body that oversees these types of problems.

Currently there is no any regulations or government control over this. It is an unusual situation, never before the current crises the cars was sold more than the MSRP. The value of new cars used to drop with thousands the moment they are sold. Now they are going up thousands which is the price for the waiting time.

kkkat wrote: ↑ don’t buy a car unless absolutely have to, especially on a mass produced depreciating appliance.

Used to be depreciating, if the current situation remains a new normal for a long time getting a car becomes a good investment. Those who bought cars during the lock down in spring 2020 can sell them now at a big profit.

+1

Dec 6th, 2022 11:21 pm

xjesterxx: Deal Addict; Jul 5, 2011; 2268 posts; 2528 upvotes; Toronto

Dec 6th, 2022 11:21 pm

Smh

This thread is ridiculous - I hope everyone including OP takes the time to really think it through.

1. Dealers get literally nothing when you finance through the manufacturer on a new car

2. There is no chance at all, literally zero, that someone presented you with a $3000 admin fee for financing a RAV4.

3. Someone probably did buy both of the cars while you were playing games with your sales rep over an imaginary issue that doesn’t exist (on most vehicles)

Sure - if you want to go buy a Sienna for cash you’ll have a hard time. Not because they want to make more money from you if you finance, because they are scared you will export it and they will be penalized by the manufacturer. No one is exporting standard RAV4s.

It pains me that this thread exists as some secret discovered in the auto industry… finally, we’ve discovered the true way dealers are out to rip you off and their tricky tactics.

2013 Wins - $1320 - Woohoo!

+7

Dec 6th, 2022 11:22 pm

cheaper_than_cheap: Deal Addict; Dec 20, 2007; 3645 posts; 4257 upvotes; Prince George

Dec 6th, 2022 11:22 pm

Ross12345 wrote: ↑ I made a test drive a brand new 2022 RAV4 on the dealers parking lot with only 13Km on the odometer and protective tapes all over the car and he told me this is the actual car if I buy it today. After he spent a lot of time explaining the financing, he was ready to sell it to me because I was hiding my intention to pay with cash till the very end. Then I told him that I want to co-own the car with my doughtier who was not with me but will give her a call. Then I told him that my daughter is offering cash. He told me to wait and went away. When he came back he said someone else got the car.

I mean, to be fair, you were lying to him too. So I'm not sure how much you can complain about him lying to you. But yeah money always brings out the worst in people, unfortunately. And at the moment the dealers have the upper hand.

+3

Dec 6th, 2022 11:42 pm

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 6th, 2022 11:42 pm

xjesterxx wrote: ↑ Smh

This thread is ridiculous - I hope everyone including OP takes the time to really think it through.

1. Dealers get literally nothing when you finance through the manufacturer on a new car

2. There is no chance at all, literally zero, that someone presented you with a $3000 admin fee for financing a RAV4.

3. Someone probably did buy both of the cars while you were playing games with your sales rep over an imaginary issue that doesn’t exist (on most vehicles)

Sure - if you want to go buy a Sienna for cash you’ll have a hard time. Not because they want to make more money from you if you finance, because they are scared you will export it and they will be penalized by the manufacturer. No one is exporting standard RAV4s.

It pains me that this thread exists as some secret discovered in the auto industry… finally, we’ve discovered the true way dealers are out to rip you off and their tricky tactics.

This is the copy he gave me when explaining the financing. I asked him what is this $2,720.70 and he said that's basically admin fee for the financing.

edit: in case the image is not showing this is direct drop box link to it
Your text to link here...

+7

Dec 7th, 2022 12:06 am

kkkat: Deal Addict; Dec 14, 2007; 1769 posts; 1254 upvotes

Dec 7th, 2022 12:06 am

Did you check the price on Toyota’s website before you went in? That line you called finance fee has PDI in it. I bet around half of that is PDI. Rustproofing for 1800 is absolute garbage though.

+2

Dec 7th, 2022 12:10 am

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 7th, 2022 12:10 am

cheaper_than_cheap wrote: ↑ I mean, to be fair, you were lying to him too. So I'm not sure how much you can complain about him lying to you. But yeah money always brings out the worst in people, unfortunately. And at the moment the dealers have the upper hand.

With the first dealer I was honest from the start and that didn't end well for me, I was cut right away. He said hold on i need to speak to the manager and he quickly came back with the sorry someone bought the car online. I told him I would have bought it online myself but there is no such option online then he start talking BS like it is an old customer using some loyalty program blah blah. He didn't want to speak with me anymore. I didn't even have a chance to learn what the financing possibilities are if that's the only way.
So with the second dealer call it a lie or whatever you want but I had to hide my intentions in order to learn how to get a car that I desperately need for a fair price.
Lying is a bad thing when it's ill intention or to take advantage of someone else. So, in that respect please tell me if my lie is on the same level as the dealers lies.

+4

Dec 7th, 2022 12:10 am

kkkat: Deal Addict; Dec 14, 2007; 1769 posts; 1254 upvotes

Dec 7th, 2022 12:10 am

Ross12345 wrote: ↑
Used to be depreciating, if the current situation remains a new normal for a long time getting a car becomes a good investment. Those who bought cars during the lock down in spring 2020 can sell them now at a big profit.

Well OP is buying a car now not 2020. And looks like OP didn’t do his homework and misunderstands the charges on the quote.

+2

Dec 7th, 2022 12:19 am

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 7th, 2022 12:19 am

kkkat wrote: ↑ Did you check the price on Toyota’s website before you went in? That line you called finance fee has PDI in it. I bet around half of that is PDI. Rustproofing for 1800 is absolute garbage though.

They don't have this car listed on their website. They called me and told me there is a car available - someone cancelled their order and invited me to visit them. They have my phone number from my previous inquiries about cars in their dealership.

+2

Dec 7th, 2022 12:26 am

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 7th, 2022 12:26 am

xjesterxx wrote: ↑ Smh

This thread is ridiculous - I hope everyone including OP takes the time to really think it through.

don't get me wrong with all I'm saying in this thread I'm not claiming that what I think is going on is what it is. I'm just trying to make sense and find a logical explanation of what I'm experiencing. If you have better explanation why this is happening I'm all ears and with open mind.

+1

Dec 7th, 2022 12:41 am

Ross12345 [OP]: Newbie; Oct 23, 2008; 58 posts; 86 upvotes

Dec 7th, 2022 12:41 am

kkkat wrote: ↑ Well OP is buying a car now not 2020.

Yes, me the OP is buying a car now but my point was, in 2020 it was unknown that the cars will go up that much, and it's also unknown what the car prices will be two years from now. The prices may drop or go even higher. Similar to the inflation predictions the opinions differ even among the prominent bankers and money managers.

kkkat wrote: ↑ And looks like OP didn’t do his homework and misunderstands the charges on the quote.

OK, then please help me with advice how to do my homework properly and explain the quote to me, I will greatly appreciate your input

+1

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