Automotive

This thread is about my initial fears of car dealers ripping me off and the helpful RFD replies with buying a new car

  • Last Updated:
  • Dec 9th, 2022 12:27 am
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
EP32k2 wrote: If that's the case, what's with the click bait title?
Sorry that was not my intention, Not sure if it'll make a difference but I changed the title from "This how the car dealers are ripping you off" to "This how I think the car dealers are ripping you off". Please, let me know if it's still bad.
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Jul 5, 2011
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lamin wrote: When are Toyota suvs and trucks gonna stop getting exported out of the country due to theft? Toyota hasn’t come up with a proper solution for decades, but the manufacturer doesn’t want their cars exported. I know dealers are private companies, but what I don’t know is which one you work for.
This is a completely separate issue and I imagine it is a concern of theirs.
2013 Wins - $1320 - Woohoo!
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Feb 8, 2014
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Ross12345 wrote: Sorry that was not my intention, Not sure if it'll make a difference but I changed the title from "This how the car dealers are ripping you off" to "This how I think the car dealers are ripping you off". Please, let me know if it's still bad.
Don't debase yourself to appease loudmouths.
Your original title was fine.

That said you can try other Toyota dealerships or go used or try a buying service, i believe Costco has exclusive discounts with some automakers (probably not Toyota though).
Or buy a less popular model or buy used.
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people
Deal Addict
Jun 21, 2022
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Gta
Ross12345 wrote: Sorry that was not my intention, Not sure if it'll make a difference but I changed the title from "This how the car dealers are ripping you off" to "This how I think the car dealers are ripping you off". Please, let me know if it's still bad.
OTR price.
<censored>
Deal Expert
Jan 15, 2006
21392 posts
23736 upvotes
Richmond Hill
Quentin5 wrote: Don't debase yourself to appease loudmouths.
Your original title was fine.

That said you can try other Toyota dealerships or go used or try a buying service, i believe Costco has exclusive discounts with some automakers (probably not Toyota though).
Or buy a less popular model or buy used.
This how I think the car dealers are ripping you off

Really? Have you even looked at the quote OP linked? There is no ripping off happening.
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
Extrahard wrote: You're doing it all wrong. First and foremost don't let the dealer know that you are in a desperate situation. You need a car desperately but you're looking at a new vehicle. Due to supply chain new vehicles especially from a wanted brand like Toyota are not easy to come by. You will have to put your name on the list and wait months. If a car is available due to a cancelled order, it will have dealer add ons that you don’t need such as rust proofing that they will force you to pay for if you want the vehicle. Although you are correct about financing the dealers kick back is not that much from the lender compared to some of the commission they make on the add ons. Also, a cash deal gets them paid quicker without much admin work. You need to figure out the out the door price from the website first and ensure the PDI (usually about $1800 to $2100) and taxes are added. After that most dealers have an etching/admin fee usually in the 300-500 range. Plus factor in another $50 for plating and maybe another $40 for wheel locks (which they will add) and you're at your price. You can try to negotiate but believe me with an available vehicle you won't get anywhere. Be prepared to pay $2000-$3000 more than the website price after overpriced add ons which they will force on you.

There's 3 ways to look at the situation. You can eat the extras since it's a $40,000+ vehicle we are talking about and move on with your life. You can put yourself on the waiting list and wait 6+ months. Or you can buy an overpriced used car to get you through the next 2 to 3 years and hope there's a recession and the situation improves. Another option is to explore the domestic brands that aren't as popular.

Believe it or not car dealerships are losing money because car manufacturers aren't keeping up with demand, car sales per month have gone down by about 1/3 to 1/2 compared to pre covid times. Dealerships that were selling 200+ cars a month pre covid are now selling 60+ only.

P.S i don't work in the industry just went through the same ordeal a couple of months ago.
Thank you for the useful information. I do not show my desperation to the dealers and I tell them I'm shopping around. I wonder, since there is no regulations and any government control, when new cars arrive what make the dealers sell them to people on the waiting list instead of adding some useless extra stuff like rustproofing and offer them to people like me?
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
EP32k2 wrote: I just looked on Toyota's website. It's $1890 for PDI/FR + Fees (Enviro fees + admin) and viola we're at $27xx. Sure one could argue the admin fee is high.

I just can't believe ppl have been upvoting this thread SMH.
Thank you, the dealer didn't explain to me that amount clearly like you.
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
tmkf_patryk wrote: What engine? I have a VERY hard time
Believing there is no replacement
Toyota Avalon 95. Will be very grateful if you find one. There are some on ebay but none ships to Canada. I found only one in Canada in a scrapyard in Alberta but no guarantee of any kind it will work and shipping is a problem.
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
EP32k2 wrote: Upvoted for downvoting.
I'm a very casual user of redflagdeals.com and have no idea what's the significance of up or down voting and why it matters. Is this the like button with the thumbs up? I just clicked it on all who replied because I appreciate everybody's input and opinions. I hope I'm not making some sort of a mess with this
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
jonnycee1 wrote: End of the day, OP hasn’t provided an OTR price. This thread is currently sitting at 30+ posts of useless
I'm not sure what OTR price means. Please let me know and if I can I'll gladly provide it
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Nov 15, 2005
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Ross12345 wrote: I'm not sure what OTR price means. Please let me know and if I can I'll gladly provide it
On the Road Price, so the total after all the taxes and fees. I had to google it as I didn't know what it meant.
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
xjesterxx wrote: What's happening:

You went to look at 2 cars and someone else bought them before you.

Imagine in a market with very low supply and a steady demand. An order gets cancelled, they do not have a customer on hand that they can reach or wants to move into it (people can be very devoted to their preferred build, color, etc and many have already committed to waiting). They send word to their sales team (possibly 20+ sales reps) that the vehicle is available for immediate delivery. They start making calls to the hundreds of prospects they all have for RAV4s - clients that couldn't wait, or wouldn't wait, or had a specific timeline in mind. Suddenly there are 15-20 interested people (1 per sales rep seems fairly reasonable right?).

Have you ever seen a deal at Walmart, Costco, etc and turned up just to see someone literally walking to the cash register with the last one available? Even if you haven't, it happens all the time. In this case, I can guarantee you that someone literally just beat you to the register with a signed bill of sale without conditions and a deposit. That's all it takes for the word to go out that the vehicle is sold and no longer available. That's when your sales rep goes off for a minute to confirm that it's a firm deal without conditions and comes back to tell you sorry, it's sold.

Let's not fuel the dealership hatred here with complete nonsense and misinformation. There is enough real sketch going on in the industry that deserves the attention... This sort of thread is an unnecessary and uninformed rant.
Thank you, I hope that's the case. What also affected my thinking was some articles and videos on the web where, as far as I understand, it was advised not to inform the car dealer about paying with cash right away in order to get a better deal. I don't have those bookmarked but if anyone is interested I'm sure I can find them.
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
Swerny wrote: Play silly games and win silly prizes. OP, not knowing what he's even talking about goes in and wastes everyone's time, I would have sold the car to someone else too.
I'm really sorry about that, this was not my intention. I really need help. If you and others insist I will stop posting. I don't want anyone to feel bad because of me.
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Jan 15, 2006
21392 posts
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Richmond Hill
Ross12345 wrote: Thank you, the dealer didn't explain to me that amount clearly like you.
Hopefully that brings better clarity. Just need to watch out for all the additional fees they love to tack on.
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Feb 8, 2014
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EP32k2 wrote:
This how I think the car dealers are ripping you off

Really? Have you even looked at the quote OP linked? There is no ripping off happening.
If it costs an extra 3K to get the same car and the dealership won't accept cash then the dealership is finding a way to pad their profit margin.
If the OP missed some of the fees in their calculation then they should be educated, not berated.
Ross12345 wrote: I'm really sorry about that, this was not my intention. I really need help. If you and others insist I will stop posting. I don't want anyone to feel bad because of me.
Don't stop posting to appease others. You are not threatening anyone or causing bodily harm with this thread.
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
EP32k2 wrote: This how I think the car dealers are ripping you off

Really? Have you even looked at the quote OP linked? There is no ripping off happening.
I will be very happy to be wrong thinking I've been ripped off. That was the purpose of my post to hear what others think. From what happened in my visits to the dealerships along with my lack of experience with buying a car and the difficulty understanding many things in the pricing I felt that they are trying to rip me off.
Deal Expert
Jan 15, 2006
21392 posts
23736 upvotes
Richmond Hill
Quentin5 wrote: If it costs an extra 3K to get the same car and the dealership won't accept cash then the dealership is finding a way to pad their profit margin.
If the OP missed some of the fees in their calculation then they should be educated, not berated.


Don't stop posting to appease others. You are not threatening anyone or causing bodily harm with this thread.
Again, did you bother reading the dealer quote?
Newbie
Oct 23, 2008
64 posts
94 upvotes
boonjaca wrote: On the Road Price, so the total after all the taxes and fees. I had to google it as I didn't know what it meant.
thank you, In one of my replies I posted a link to the paper with price brake down the dealer gave me. I don't see any of the charges named as OTR (On the Road Price). There is total price $44,306.96 is that it?

here is the link again to the sheet, I'll try to attach it in the original post.

Your text to link here...
Newbie
Feb 26, 2022
40 posts
102 upvotes
Ross12345 wrote: thank you, In one of my replies I posted a link to the paper with price brake down the dealer gave me. I don't see any of the charges named as OTR (On the Road Price). There is total price $44,306.96 is that it?

here is the link again to the sheet, I'll try to attach it in the original post.

Your text to link here...
Image The price looks right to me
Amount Owing = Admin fee (699) + Rust Proofing (1799) + tax
Image
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Jan 27, 2004
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ONTARIO
lamin wrote: I think we should start naming all these dealerships and see how the redflag effects works in the opposite trend. We are allowed to look out for each other right? Would this be breaking any forum rules?
I think once rfd gets sued or they send strongly worded letters from their lawyer, they’ll just shut it all down.
Its happened before…

Some instances… a rfd user got a cease and desist order from some
NHL big shot because he made a comment on some sort of controversy @ the time.
They went as far to get the IP and track down the guy to send it.

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