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Threat for a raise?

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  • Oct 26th, 2020 11:33 pm
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[OP]
Sr. Member
Apr 23, 2014
647 posts
289 upvotes
Toronto, ON

Threat for a raise?

Some of you may know of my previous thread. I was hired as a data entry guy, but now have expanded into data analysis. Economics degree, stats/computer science background. I get entry level, I am looking for above $20. I am definitely not looking for $1 raise.

So I finally got management to give me performance review as early as coming week(previous thread others told me to ask for raise), since my probationary period is now over.

i run data analysis. So power bi reports/developer, modelling data. In addition, i got legacy software (where we pull our main data from) to work with SQL database and then tableau. It was difficult but I found a way (corporate wouldn't share know-how with regional base that I am part of. So I figured if corporate got it done, there must be a way for us too and I spent days testing to find solution).

My management has been impressed with data. Before they had no knowledge of anyone's productivity, sales - like one certain days we had people coming in to work to do nothing (literally nothing). The executive of course didn't know because he didn't have the data in front of him. So the executive now is involved and wants me to refine dashboards and add even more data to it. Then I will present to all the regional executives.


Now I work 5 days a week, i don't get paid overtime (management refused when i started new). But I continued to work because I enjoy what I am doing. So I work 7 days a week and staying longer after hours. This means I get paid an average of $10/hour once i spread my earnings over the hours worked.


So I don't know how to bring the issue of wage with management. It is certain they're going to save at least $50k (for just one department in one location only). I don't think it will be appropriate to say that I refuse to expand it to other locations unless I get paid more. So I think more along the line of "either pay me or the rollout will be very slow as I dedicate max of 8 hours a day."

In addition, the management is only allowing me to do all this. They refuse to let me get help from other departments. Like what the hell. I know it's $100/month license, but I have to dig through a lot of lines of codes to model our database. I don't mind working single-handedly, so I will definitely want to say that add more people to this project or pay more. While likely scenario is they give more support instead of raising wage, there is sensitive data I have access to which they may not want to share with everyone else.


Finally, if I leave the company to actually work as a data analyst elsewhere, this entire project is dead. They have no one in entire region who knows how to pull data. They could fire me and make me hand over all my work, but I doubt they can find someone else for sixteen/hour to dig through all my code to understand how I modeled things. So I have something major here, I just don't know how to present myself to ask for appropriate value for work I do, the knowledge and the man-hours I am putting in.
Last edited by vanclty on May 2nd, 2020 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
61 replies
Member
Feb 13, 2017
369 posts
348 upvotes
toronto, ontario
Employers rarely respond favourably to "threats".

Find a better method of conveying your value proposition to your employer.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jul 12, 2003
11632 posts
3932 upvotes
Toronto
If you think you worth more salary, better just to jump to another position or work for another company.
No point to ask for a raise if that's how much they are willing to pay you or someone at that position.
Retired Forum Moderator February 2009 - June 2015
[OP]
Sr. Member
Apr 23, 2014
647 posts
289 upvotes
Toronto, ON
PhotoSmurf wrote: Employers rarely respond favourably to "threats".

Find a better method of conveying your value proposition to your employer.
That's why I am asking here for advice, to find an appropriate way to ask for a raise while subtly making them aware of my importance. Right now I feel they think that since my work is doable, it is easy. They don't know how many hours i put into it, which i will tell them during performance review.

If they still don't budge, then of course I will use the experience i gained here to find myself a better place.
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Dec 16, 2015
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vanclty wrote: Some of you may know of my previous thread. I was hired as a data entry guy, but now have expanded into data analysis. Economics degree, stats/computer science background. I get paid sixteen an hour (the lowest among all my employees apparently), I am looking for at least 21-25 total. I am definitely not looking for $1 raise.

So I finally got management to give me performance review as early as coming week(previous thread others told me to ask for raise), since my probationary period is now over.

i run data analysis. So tableau/power bi reports/developer, modelling data. In addition, i got legacy software (where we pull our main data from) to work with SQL database and then tableau. It was difficult but I found a way (corporate wouldn't share know-how with regional base that I am part of. So I figured if corporate got it done, there must be a way for us too and I spent days testing to find solution).

My management has been impressed with data. Before they had no knowledge of anyone's productivity, sales - like one certain days we had people coming in to work to do nothing (literally nothing). The executive of course didn't know because he didn't have the data in front of him. So the executive now is involved and wants me to refine dashboards and add even more data to it. Then I will present to all the regional executives. Their future goal is to expand this to our regional location, 5 locations covering some 1000 employees.


Now I work 5 days a week, i don't get paid overtime (management refused when i started new). But I continued to work because I enjoy what I am doing. So I work 7 days a week and staying longer after hours. This means I get paid an average of $10/hour once i spread my earnings over the hours worked.


So I don't know how to bring the issue of wage with management. It is certain they're going to save at least $50k (for just one department in one location only). I don't think it will be appropriate to say that I refuse to expand it to other locations unless I get paid more. So I think more along the line of "either pay me or the rollout will be very slow as I dedicate max of 8 hours a day."

In addition, the management is only allowing me to do all this. They refuse to let me get help from other departments. Like what the hell. I know it's $100/month license, but I have to dig through a lot of lines of codes to model our database. I don't mind working single-handedly, so I will definitely want to say that add more people to this project or pay more. While likely scenario is they give more support instead of raising wage, there is sensitive data I have access to which they may not want to share with everyone else.


Finally, if I leave the company to actually work as a data analyst elsewhere, this entire project is dead. They have no one in entire region who knows how to pull data. They could fire me and make me hand over all my work, but I doubt they can find someone else for sixteen/hour to dig through all my code to understand how I modeled things. So I have something major here, I just don't know how to present myself to ask for appropriate value for work I do, the knowledge and the man-hours I am putting in.
Say whatever you said above to them... or just forward them this thread
To the moon
Member
Jan 12, 2011
248 posts
160 upvotes
Toronto
vanclty wrote: That's why I am asking here for advice, to find an appropriate way to ask for a raise while subtly making them aware of my importance. Right now I feel they think that since my work is doable, it is easy. They don't know how many hours i put into it, which i will tell them during performance review.

If they still don't budge, then of course I will use the experience i gained here to find myself a better place.
How about you just find another job with a better offer and stop wasting everyone's time. They will raise or match if they want you to stay.
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Aug 22, 2011
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You obviously know your worth...move on.
Member
Sep 11, 2017
379 posts
258 upvotes
15 years ago when I was in a similar situation as I went to the Director I reported to and requested a re-evaluation of my comp package because I felt I was no longer working on the scope of work I was brought on for (but my projects were now more complex and aligned with what senior team members would manage). He agreed but the VP at the time did not. I didn’t get the raise and within 8 months I left for a senior position with another organization.

Just ask - say that you were initial brought on for data entry which your current compensation reflects; but now the scope of your work has changed and you would like to see your compensation adjusted to meet that. They may ask you how much you are looking for so you better have a $ figure ready. If they say no, don’t take it personal and start looking for another opportunity. Whether you want to see your project through and gain the experience is up to you.
Last edited by FedExpress on Oct 26th, 2019 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sr. Member
Feb 10, 2008
643 posts
293 upvotes
Toronto
Everyone thinks they are worth more than they are getting paid.

First, if you aren't getting paid OT, stop working OT.

Second, if you really are worth more money, find a company that is willing to pay it. You may be surprised that your "skills" are not as highly in demand as you think they are. Sounds like you've been there 3 months? The company managed before you, and I expect they'll be fine after you are gone too.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Apr 23, 2014
647 posts
289 upvotes
Toronto, ON
FedExpress wrote: 15 years ago when I was in a similar situation as I went to the Director I reported to and requested a re-evaluation of my comp package because I felt I was no longer working on the scope of work I was brought on for (but my projects were now more complex and aligned with what senior team members would manage). He agreed but the VP at the time did not. I didn’t get the raise and within 8 months I left for a senior position with another organization.

Just ask - say that you were initial brought on for data entry which your current compensation reflects; but now the scope of your work has changed and you would like to see your compensation adjusted to meet that. They may ask you how much you are looking for so you better have a $ figure ready. If they say no, don’t take it personal and start looking for another opportunity. Whether you want to see your project through and gain the experience is up to you.
Thanks, this is the sort of response I was looking for. I was hired for something else and more stuff lands on my table than what I'm being compensated for.
mrwally wrote: Everyone thinks they are worth more than they are getting paid.

First, if you aren't getting paid OT, stop working OT.

Second, if you really are worth more money, find a company that is willing to pay it. You may be surprised that your "skills" are not as highly in demand as you think they are. Sounds like you've been there 3 months? The company managed before you, and I expect they'll be fine after you are gone too.
If I don't work OT, the work won't get done. They want me to do primary job AND this now.

Sure they were managed before me, but as I put, they're losing money. So they can continue to lose money while I'm gone or maybe pay me more.
Sr. Member
Feb 10, 2008
643 posts
293 upvotes
Toronto
vanclty wrote:
Sure they were managed before me, but as I put, they're losing money. So they can continue to lose money while I'm gone or maybe pay me more.
So you are saying your work was directly responsible for turning an unprofitable company into a profitable one in 3 months? If so, getting a raise shouldn't be difficult at all.

I expect you think your data analysis is a little more important than what it actually is. Management often knows what the problems are even before the fancy graphs are shown to them. It's making the changes that are sometimes difficult.

If the company is not making a profit, maybe paying you more isn't even an option right now.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Apr 23, 2014
647 posts
289 upvotes
Toronto, ON
mrwally wrote:
So you are saying your work was directly responsible for turning an unprofitable company into a profitable one in 3 months? If so, getting a raise shouldn't be difficult at all.

I expect you think your data analysis is a little more important than what it actually is. Management often knows what the problems are even before the fancy graphs are shown to them. It's making the changes that are sometimes difficult.

If the company is not making a profit, maybe paying you more isn't even an option right now.
In the post I outlined how there are people working and doing nothing.

The way you're coming off, it's like no one needs to use business intelligence because all companies know where they're losing money and the executives don't need "fancy graphs". Which baffles me, why this management wants me to do graphs for them if they know which department and which person is causing them loses.
Sr. Member
Feb 10, 2008
643 posts
293 upvotes
Toronto
I'm not saying there is no value in what you are doing, and it can't hurt to ask for a raise, I'm just questioning if your work is as valuable as you think it is. Data analysis is great, but keep in mind that it's just paper...it doesn't change the company's bottom line directly.
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Jan 31, 2006
7140 posts
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Toronto
vanclty wrote:
Finally, if I leave the company to actually work as a data analyst elsewhere, this entire project is dead. They have no one in entire region who knows how to pull data. They could fire me and make me hand over all my work, but I doubt they can find someone else for sixteen/hour to dig through all my code to understand how I modeled things. So I have something major here, I just don't know how to present myself to ask for appropriate value for work I do, the knowledge and the man-hours I am putting in.
If you think the project will die when you leave then leave now, since they don't value you at all. If I am you I will just walk away.
Member
Mar 20, 2006
455 posts
198 upvotes
You might have created something great. But if they were running their business before you they will keep running without you again. No disrespect but all I am saying is what you are considering big they simply don’t have that big value in profit generation for their company.

By the way unless they ask you work 5 or 7 days, it is simply you putting your time to learn something for your benefit. Seriously why would a company pay you or any employee who just chooses to put extra time by themselves for their own learning?
Member
Jan 12, 2011
248 posts
160 upvotes
Toronto
vanclty wrote: The way you're coming off, it's like no one needs to use business intelligence because all companies know where they're losing money and the executives don't need "fancy graphs". Which baffles me, why this management wants me to do graphs for them if they know which department and which person is causing them loses.
There are so many jobs out there that are invaluable. Janitors are an absolute necessity for every business. Fast food staff keeps fast food chains alive. Taxi drivers are essential for their business.

How much you are paid depends on supply and demand for your unique skillset. The only way real way to find out what you are worth is to go out there and see what people are willing to pay you.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
35606 posts
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cnfjti3 wrote: There are so many jobs out there that are invaluable. Janitors are an absolute necessity for every business. Fast food staff keeps fast food chains alive. Taxi drivers are essential for their business.

How much you are paid depends on supply and demand for your unique skillset. The only way real way to find out what you are worth is to go out there and see what people are willing to pay you.
He has dev skills and would start with a base salary of $80K in my company.
Member
Jan 12, 2011
248 posts
160 upvotes
Toronto
vkizzle wrote: He has dev skills and would start with a base salary of $80K in my company.
Great! All the more reason to quit complaining about not getting a raise to 50k and find another job
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Feb 4, 2010
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I also don't understand why you're working extra hours for free and on weekends. There's a few things wrong a) why would they pay you more when you're working for free already? b) I say this with love, I swear but you need to get a life. Work isn't everything - you need to find something else besides work. Honestly, I would find another job. Even if they give you a slight raise I don't think they know how to respect/treat/motivate employees and you're just going to face more of this. You obviously have marketable skillsets, self-motivated , strong worth ethic...but you also devalue yourself by putting their needs before yours (i.e. working for free...you're more worried about the project dying than about not getting paid lol). Anyways, you should have no problems finding a job. Keep this job while you look for something else and stop getting so emotionally invested- that's your problem right there.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Apr 23, 2014
647 posts
289 upvotes
Toronto, ON
hierophant wrote: I also don't understand why you're working extra hours for free and on weekends. There's a few things wrong a) why would they pay you more when you're working for free already? b) I say this with love, I swear but you need to get a life. Work isn't everything - you need to find something else besides work. Honestly, I would find another job. Even if they give you a slight raise I don't think they know how to respect/treat/motivate employees and you're just going to face more of this. You obviously have marketable skillsets, self-motivated , strong worth ethic...but you also devalue yourself by putting their needs before yours (i.e. working for free...you're more worried about the project dying than about not getting paid lol). Anyways, you should have no problems finding a job. Keep this job while you look for something else and stop getting so emotionally invested- that's your problem right there.
I am working OT because I don't have a family. Once you have kids etc, you want to spend as much time with family (I will even take a pay cut for this when that time comes). So these are my years where i try to grow as much as possible, whether it is paid or not. Of course I would like to be paid, hence I am going to bring it up.

If I did not work OT for free, i would never have time to complete all this work and reach the executives at top. And I did mention, they don't know i am putting free OT to this extent, hence I will bring it up.

This thread isn't so much should I keep this job or not, my only question here is "how do i ask for a raise" and once i have a no, then certainly I am not going to stay here.

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