Off Topic

Time to start Canadian manufacturing!

Deal Addict
Apr 30, 2011
3273 posts
390 upvotes
RICHMOND HILL
cybercavalier wrote: So given the contemporary situations, Canada could secure SOME from the US to establish SOME manufacture infrastructure for some products? Then diversify to global network of third or above industries to bring in population, logistics, infrastructure, the knowledge and the money to build assets.... that include immigration and real estate, although the latter two are sideshows of the big picture.
No. There's an adage in developing countries, which is that in order to own your infrastructure you need to develop it yourself. Relying on experts from other countries without your own local knowledge base leaves you hostage come maintenance and expansion time. China learned this the hard way after the Sino-Soviet split, and this is also one of the points used by opponents of China to attack their Belt and Road initiative.

I think you're underestimating the calculating nature of foreign governments and corporations. If America wants to assist in the building of infrastructure in other nations so that it can have a source of cheap goods, then it will definitely strive to maintain ownership of that infrastructure. A prime example is Canada's auto sector, previously comprised of mostly Canadian branches of US manufacturers, and now mostly Canadian branches of global manufacturers. Part of the industry - tooling, production (note the Americans have never shared their advanced knowledge with us) - have since moved to Mexico, and neither the Canadian government nor corporations were significant influencers in preventing this decision. Developing economies like Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan had already laid down the ground work for more advanced infrastructure through education and strategic investments when American companies came knocking on the door, and so were better able to chart their own course when their own industries started being off-shored.

There's also the need to justify time and potential. The above mentioned countries saw their own potential and bet on it hard. Everyone in that part of the world wanted a piece of the American pie as it was the quickest way out of post-WWII poverty and obscurity. They didn't see it as a chicken-and-egg problem, but rather a do-or-die decision. If Canada wants to invest money and resources over a long period to develop an industry and workforce, the potential has to be great enough, or the country has to be desperate enough. Right now the cost of labour, red tape, and conflict with our natural resources sector is preventing this from even getting off the ground, and our non-immigrant population growth can't compete with developing economies. Immigration may help, but cultural integration remains an obstacle, whether the problem lies with the locals or the newcomers. Are we as a people desperate enough to take manufacturing jobs, and would getting manufacturing jobs be better than anything we have right now? That we don't have an unequivocal answer means there's no potential within us to attract the foreign investment needed to jump-start manufacturing on our own terms.
Banned
May 20, 2020
464 posts
310 upvotes
City of Toronto
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
Use better our agricultural products and resources. Sell those extra milk to communities in Northern Canada, say Yukon and NWT. Especially,
Coates, K. S., Lackenbauer, P. W., Morrison, W., & Poelzer, G. (2010). Arctic front: defending Canada in the far north (pp. 206–208). Toronto: Thomas Allen Publishers.
Northern Nation-Building: Completing Canada through the Arctic
4. Completing the Nation
northern settlements of aboriginals.

Canada announces more funds to help Indigenous communities
Last edited by cybercavalier on May 29th, 2020 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!
Banned
May 20, 2020
464 posts
310 upvotes
City of Toronto
cybercavalier wrote: Use better our agricultural products and resources. Sell those extra milk to communities in Northern Canada, say Yukon and NWT. Especially,

northern settlements of aboriginals.

Canada announces more funds to help Indigenous communities
Prime Minister announces additional funding for health, economic, and social support for Indigenous peoples and communities
The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today announced new funding to provide critical support to Indigenous families and communities during this crisis, based on needs that have been identified. The funding includes:
  • $285.1 million to support the ongoing public health response to COVID-19 in Indigenous communities. The investment will fund community-led responses to the pandemic, and provide targeted increases in primary health care resources for First Nations communities. In case of outbreaks, this funding can be drawn upon to provide surge capacity and additional support for community-based services in First Nations, Inuit, and Métis communities.
  • $270 million to supplement the On-Reserve Income Assistance Program to address increased demand on the program, which will help individuals and families meet their essential living expenses. It will also help hire additional staff to better serve First Nations communities and connect individuals to other government programs.
  • $44.8 million over five years to build 12 new shelters, which will help protect and support Indigenous women and girls experiencing and fleeing violence. This funding will help build 10 shelters in First Nations communities on reserve across the country, and two in the territories, to support Indigenous women and children. The government will also provide $40.8 million to support operational costs for these new shelters over the first five years, and $10.2 million annually ongoing. We are also announcing $1 million a year ongoing, starting this year, to support engagement with Métis leaders and service providers on shelter provision and community-led violence prevention projects for Métis women, girls, and LGBTQ and two-spirit people.
Today’s investment builds on the work already being done through the $305 million Indigenous Community Support Fund, and the additional $75 million provided for communities and organizations working with Indigenous peoples living in urban areas and off-reserve. The Government of Canada is taking a distinctions-based approach to address the needs of Indigenous peoples and communities. Where needed, the government has also provided additional support, including in northwestern Saskatchewan, where funding has supported a collective effort between First Nations, the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan, the Government of Saskatchewan, and other partners to coordinate the COVID-19 response in the region.
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
Coates, K. S., Lackenbauer, P. W., Morrison, W., & Poelzer, G. (2010). Arctic front: defending Canada in the far north (p. 206–208). Toronto: Thomas Allen Publishers.
Northern Nation-Building: Completing Canada through the Arctic
4. Completing the Nation
*Making the North Attractive
*Solving the Housing Crisis
Martin, Rogers L. (2012) Canada: what it is, what it can be / Roger Martin & James Milway (p. 194-198). Toronto, Buffalo, London: University of Toronto Press.
13. Make Canada What It Can Be
*Adopt Anti-Poverty Policies
Last edited by cybercavalier on May 29th, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
loserga wrote: We were never going to keep our IP from larger economies. We simply don't have the resources and funds to protect them.
Martin, Rogers L. (2012) Canada: what it is, what it can be / Roger Martin & James Milway (p. 194-198). Toronto, Buffalo, London: University of Toronto Press.
13. Make Canada What It Can Be
*Strengthen Our Determination to Close the Prosperity Gap
*Ensure That Our Public Policy balances Spending on Current Prosperity and Investing in Future Prosperity
*Shift the Balance in Our Public Policy from Invention to Innovation
*Build Our Management Capabilities
Last edited by cybercavalier on May 29th, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the post or comment helps or delights you, please CLICK that LIKE BUTTON!😃
Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
loserga wrote: No. There's an adage in developing countries, which is that in order to own your infrastructure you need to develop it yourself. Relying on experts from other countries without your own local knowledge base leaves you hostage come maintenance and expansion time. China learned this the hard way after the Sino-Soviet split, and this is also one of the points used by opponents of China to attack their Belt and Road initiative.

I think you're underestimating the calculating nature of foreign governments and corporations. If America wants to assist in the building of infrastructure in other nations so that it can have a source of cheap goods, then it will definitely strive to maintain ownership of that infrastructure. A prime example is Canada's auto sector, previously comprised of mostly Canadian branches of US manufacturers, and now mostly Canadian branches of global manufacturers. Part of the industry - tooling, production (note the Americans have never shared their advanced knowledge with us) - have since moved to Mexico, and neither the Canadian government nor corporations were significant influencers in preventing this decision. Developing economies like Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan had already laid down the ground work for more advanced infrastructure through education and strategic investments when American companies came knocking on the door, and so were better able to chart their own course when their own industries started being off-shored.

There's also the need to justify time and potential. The above mentioned countries saw their own potential and bet on it hard. Everyone in that part of the world wanted a piece of the American pie as it was the quickest way out of post-WWII poverty and obscurity. They didn't see it as a chicken-and-egg problem, but rather a do-or-die decision. If Canada wants to invest money and resources over a long period to develop an industry and workforce, the potential has to be great enough, or the country has to be desperate enough. Right now the cost of labour, red tape, and conflict with our natural resources sector is preventing this from even getting off the ground, and our non-immigrant population growth can't compete with developing economies. Immigration may help, but cultural integration remains an obstacle, whether the problem lies with the locals or the newcomers. Are we as a people desperate enough to take manufacturing jobs, and would getting manufacturing jobs be better than anything we have right now? That we don't have an unequivocal answer means there's no potential within us to attract the foreign investment needed to jump-start manufacturing on our own terms.
Martin, Rogers L. (2012) Canada: what it is, what it can be / Roger Martin & James Milway (p. 194-198). Toronto, Buffalo, London: University of Toronto Press.
13. Make Canada What It Can Be
*Strengthen Our Determination to Close the Prosperity Gap
*Ensure That Our Public Policy balances Spending on Current Prosperity and Investing in Future Prosperity
*Shift the Balance in Our Public Policy from Invention to Innovation
*Build Our Management Capabilities
*Continue to Lower Taxes on Business Investment
*Pursue True Tax-Policy Innovation
*Adopt Reciprocity as Our Guiding Principles for Foreign Direct Investment
*Expand International Trade
*Innovate in Venture Funding
Last edited by cybercavalier on May 29th, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the post or comment helps or delights you, please CLICK that LIKE BUTTON!😃
Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
BiegeToyota wrote: A lot of women here make more and have saved more than the average Canadian. They have absolutely amazing skills, probably from the hard life they had growing up. No Canadian can match that. I know it is perhaps hard to imagine, but even Annie's parents are probably wealthier than most here. That land they got from the government for farming which they pay no tax on keeps appreciating every year. And Dave bought them 2 buffaloes, so it's more free money for them. Yep.... that's how smart people make money and keep it in the family.
My wife is paid 5,000 Canadian pesos a month working for a Japanese company. My previous wife was working for Siemens with a similar salary. Where are these companies in Canada, lol? If I was smart enough to buy a condo here, I would have made 30% on currency exchange alone, never mind the appreciation. And people think real estate in Toronto is expensive.
Martin, Rogers L. (2012) Canada: what it is, what it can be / Roger Martin & James Milway (p. 194-198). Toronto, Buffalo, London: University of Toronto Press.
13. Make Canada What It Can Be
*Strengthen Our Determination to Close the Prosperity Gap
*Ensure That Our Public Policy balances Spending on Current Prosperity and Investing in Future Prosperity
*Build Our Management Capabilities
*Adopt Anti-Poverty Policies
*Adopt Reciprocity as Our Guiding Principles for Foreign Direct Investment
Last edited by cybercavalier on May 29th, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the post or comment helps or delights you, please CLICK that LIKE BUTTON!😃
Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!
Deal Addict
Apr 30, 2011
3273 posts
390 upvotes
RICHMOND HILL
Talk is cheap. Let's see our government walk the walk. That is, if the people can agree on policy.
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
nabiul wrote: Japan, korea, taiwan are industrial powerhouses that still make stuff for others and profit off it, but they also have technically competent people that can work in high tech industries. Their education system isn't based on adding and subtracting feelings with colors.
Martin, Rogers L. (2012) Canada: what it is, what it can be / Roger Martin & James Milway (p. 194-198). Toronto, Buffalo, London: University of Toronto Press.
13. Make Canada What It Can Be
*Increase Aspirations for and Access to Post-Secondary Education
*Teach Innovation to Our Children
*Adopt Anti-Poverty Policies
Last edited by cybercavalier on May 29th, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the post or comment helps or delights you, please CLICK that LIKE BUTTON!😃
Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
BiegeToyota wrote: Creativity disappeared long time ago in this country.
Martin, Rogers L. (2012) Canada: what it is, what it can be / Roger Martin & James Milway (p. 194-198). Toronto, Buffalo, London: University of Toronto Press.
13. Make Canada What It Can Be
*Ensure That Our Public Policy balances Spending on Current Prosperity and Investing in Future Prosperity
*Shift the Balance in Our Public Policy from Invention to Innovation
*Teach Innovation to Our Children
*Build Our Management Capabilities
Last edited by cybercavalier on May 29th, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the post or comment helps or delights you, please CLICK that LIKE BUTTON!😃
Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
elpaso wrote: Let's make Canada great again ! :rolleyes:
Martin, Rogers L. (2012) Canada: what it is, what it can be / Roger Martin & James Milway (p. 194-198). Toronto, Buffalo, London: University of Toronto Press.
13. Make Canada What It Can Be
*Strengthen Our Determination to Close the Prosperity Gap
*Ensure That Our Public Policy balances Spending on Current Prosperity and Investing in Future Prosperity
*Increase Aspirations for and Access to Post-Secondary Education
*Shift the Balance in Our Public Policy from Invention to Innovation
*Teach Innovation to Our Children
*Build Our Management Capabilities
*Continue to Lower Taxes on Business Investment
*Pursue True Tax-Policy Innovation
*Adopt Anti-Poverty Policies
*Adopt Reciprocity as Our Guiding Principles for Foreign Direct Investment
*Expand International Trade
*Innovate in Venture Funding
There are numerous posts about manufacturing, such as cars, outsourcing et cetera, so many that corresponding their contents well to the book summary is too time consuming...
loserga wrote: Talk is cheap. Let's see our government walk the walk. That is, if the people can agree on policy.
If the post or comment helps or delights you, please CLICK that LIKE BUTTON!😃
Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!
Deal Addict
Apr 30, 2011
3273 posts
390 upvotes
RICHMOND HILL
cybercavalier wrote: There are numerous posts about manufacturing, such as cars, outsourcing et cetera, so many that corresponding their contents well to the book summary is too time consuming...
The question isn't whether these decisions are correct or not. It's whether our government has the ability to implement decade-long strategies.
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2015
692 posts
50 upvotes
loserga wrote: The question isn't whether these decisions are correct or not. It's whether our government has the ability to implement decade-long strategies.
Martin, Rogers L. (2012) Canada: what it is, what it can be / Roger Martin & James Milway (p. 194-198). Toronto, Buffalo, London: University of Toronto Press.
13. Make Canada What It Can Be
*Ensure That Our Public Policy balances Spending on Current Prosperity and Investing in Future Prosperity
If the post or comment helps or delights you, please CLICK that LIKE BUTTON!😃
Meiji: Ambassador Swanbeck, I have concluded that your treaty is NOT in the best interests of my people. So sorry, but you may not.
Swanbeck: This is an outrage!

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