Wheels and Tires

Told not to retorque?

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tranquility922 wrote: ... blah ... blah ... fake news ..."
https://www.caasco.com/blog/Automotive/ ... separation

.... A study of the reported incidents, carried out by Ontario’s Ministry of Transportation (MTO), revealed that over the 4- year period, there was a total of 389 reported wheel separations from light-duty vehicles in the monitored region. Of these, 29% had resulted in a collision......

,,,, During the spring and early summer months there is a spike in separation occurrences. Analysis of reports indicate that most incidents resulted from loose wheel fasteners – the lug nuts or bolts that hold the wheel on the vehicle.....

.....Furthermore, it was noted that a majority of these incidents in the spring-summer occurred with aluminum wheels. This is significant because seasonal tire changes generally involve the installation of aluminum wheels in the spring, while steel wheels (on which winter tires are usually mounted) are most common in the fall.....`

Since loose wheel fasteners cause most light-duty vehicle wheel separations, it is important that individuals who are installing wheels follow a few simple safety procedures:.......CHECK fastener torque after the vehicle has been operated a certain number of kilometres, as specified by the vehicle manufacturer.,,,, I

....It is important to remember that a vehicle owner is responsible for proper maintenance of their vehicle. The Highway Traffic Act has no specific charge for wheel-off incidents involving private passenger vehicles, however should the incident result in a collision, and depending on the circumstances, one could face a penalty for driving an unsafe vehicle, or even careless driving. Maintaining your vehicle in good working order is one step to help avoid these incidents from occurring.

“Wheel separations can cause devastating results, every time you check oil or check your tire pressure, you should be checking out wheel fasteners as well and make sure there’s no rust coming out from those fasteners. Those are telltale signs that there may be a problem,” says Kerry Schmidt, a sergeant with Ontario Provincial Police.....
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https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/wheel-fli ... -1.4428440
Wheel flies off SUV and strikes vehicle on busy Ont. highway
Man airlifted to hospital after Hwy 400 crash Published Saturday, May 18, 2019 2:29PM EDT

A man is airlifted to a Toronto hospital after suffering life-threatening injuries following a collision on Highway 400.
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https://globalnews.ca/news/5340030/tire ... 9-pearson/
Tire flies off car on Hwy. 409 near Pearson airport, strikes windshield of another car
Posted May 31, 2019 5:03 pm


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https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/woman-29-seri ... -1.4462771
Woman, 29, seriously injured after flying wheel smashes into car on 400
June 12, 2019 9:15AM EDT
ORNGE Air Ambulance landed in the southbound lanes of the highway to transport the 29-year-old Barrie woman to Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto.

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I really wonder how many shops know the correct torque rating for many cars anyways...
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IcarusLSC wrote: I really wonder how many shops know the correct torque rating for many cars anyways...
Think if they are using a torque wrench then they are just setting to like 90 or so for all vehicles.

Maybe varies by Costco but when they retorque have never seen the employee check specs for vehicle... they just bring wrench.

The garages that deal with weekend racers and car clubs they ask for your name and vehicle... check specs... then person retorques... this is based on personal experience.

Really no reason not to buy your own torque wrench and takes literally less then a minute per tire.
Last edited by georvu on Nov 15th, 2019 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
2022/3: BOC raised 10 times and MCAP raised its prime next day.
2017,2018: BOC raised rates 5 times and MCAP raised its prime next day each time.
2020: BOC dropped rates 3 times and MCAP waited to drop its prime to include all 3 drops.
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georvu wrote: Really no reason to buy your own torque wrench and takes literally less then a minute per tire.
It makes perfect sense to own your own torque wrench when you change your own wheels like I do (and many others).

I've had my CT wrench (bought on sale) for over 15 years.

And FWIW, i re-torque, because i DIY
Last edited by Swerny on Nov 15th, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Swerny wrote: It makes perfect sense to own your own torque wrench when you change your own wheels like I do (and many others).

I've had my CT wrench (bought on sale) for over 15 years.
I posted before coffee!!

Yes, meant that one should buy torque wrench.

Have had ours from Sears USA for about 7 years and got for like $12 USD on sale.
2022/3: BOC raised 10 times and MCAP raised its prime next day.
2017,2018: BOC raised rates 5 times and MCAP raised its prime next day each time.
2020: BOC dropped rates 3 times and MCAP waited to drop its prime to include all 3 drops.
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Carbsaregood wrote: Thank you, I know I should. But I’m curious as to why I was told I didn’t have to.
No Kaltire i went to for a retorque ever asked me for a receipt that they swapped tires. For Years i would just walk in, ask for a re torque and they would do so for free. You should always re torque after 250 km just to make sure they did not miss a lug nut (like they did one on my car lol)
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Jan 14, 2019
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Bubblegum86 wrote: No Kaltire i went to for a retorque ever asked me for a receipt that they swapped tires. For Years i would just walk in, ask for a re torque and they would do so for free. You should always re torque after 250 km just to make sure they did not miss a lug nut (like they did one on my car lol)
I tried this yesterday! I went to Canadian Tire first and they were so busy they couldn’t bother fitting me in, then I tried Costco who needed a receipt. I’ll try Kal Tire. Thank you!
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l69norm wrote:
USELESS FAKE NEWS NONSENSE

LOL.

Ironically, *you're* the fake news w the crazy sensationalism, over a 4 year period not even 400 so your 100 incidents/yr is already FAKE NEWS. Besides, do the math even assuming 100, divide by well over 12,000,000 and you get a laughable annual stat. On top of that, you still refuse to acknowledge what I said about aluminum and new wheels and if those culprits didn't put on their wheels PROPERLY in the first place.

If you wanna have a mature discussion, reply, if you're just going to cite a bunch of irrelevant and useless info that doesn't address my concerns and just tries to sensationalize yet still fails to win any argument, then forget it...but you've shown that you can only 'argue' by vomiting a whole bunch of useless factoids and hope your opponent doesn't pick it apart for being irrelevant, and you're telling me I make fake news? Such ironic and annoying gall. You obviously cannot be mature about it so POOF, ignore list you go. What a waste of time reading your nonsense.
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It takes about 2 mins to check and re-torque lug nuts/wheel bolts. There's really no excuse to not get it done, especially when the shop tells you to come back and does it for free. Even easier if you DIY.
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tranquility922 wrote: yawn....
Really ?

3 wheel loss incidents in one single 30 day period this year, in just a part of the GTA, where the lost wheel struck other cars sending all those other drivers to hospital? Where two of those drivers had to be rushed by air ambulance to a regional trauma centre ?

Where all 3 incidents involved aluminum rims?

See the shoes in this picture by the rear tire?
.
Image

Why don’t you take those shoes back to the driver who suffered the life threatening injuries, was trapped in his car on the side of the highway and had to wait to be cut free by the fire department ? How long did it take for the fire department to reach him?

Explain to him your really cool theory on how his accident is fake news because the odds of it happening are like only one in 12 million

I’m sure he’ll just accept your “facts” that lug nuts don’t need to be checked

............................................................................................................
edit - sadly , the driver can't. The driver suffered a catastrophic brain injury and might never recover.


https://globalnews.ca/news/5461707/flyi ... le-safety/
Posted July 4, 2019 4:37 pm


The wife of a man who is recovering from severe injuries is speaking out about road safety after the couple’s vehicle was hit by a flying tire while travelling on Highway 400.

Benjamin Schenk got up early on the morning of Saturday, May 18 to make sure his car, a Mazda3, was mechanically safe.

“At 7 a.m., he made sure that everything in his car was perfect before making the three-hour drive to his parents’ cottage so he did his due diligence,” said Schenk’s wife, Bella De Bartolo.

The couple decided to spent the Victoria Day long weekend with Schenk’s parents at their cottage and started driving northbound on Highway 400, but when they reached Highway 89, their car was struck by a flying tire and both Schenk and De Bartolo were hit.

“I heard him scream all of a sudden. I was looking out of the window so I was totally oblivious so when he was like, ‘Oh, my God,’ I look and I see this object coming at me,” De Bartolo recalled.

“I didn’t really understand what it was at the time. And then, when it hit us, I realized what it was. I closed my eyes and I felt everything just bang into me and I didn’t hear anything from Ben at all anymore, which was kind of scary.”

De Bartolo says the car was still moving forward at a high rate of speed so she climbed on top of her husband, who was no longer responsive, and tried to put on the brakes. Unsuccessful, she decided to take evasive action against causing a further collision and swerved the steering wheel toward the median.

“I could see [Schenk] from the corner of my eye … I just had to put it out of my head for a second. ‘Isabella, stop the car, you don’t want other people to die.’ I thought I was already dead, I thought he was already dead — I thought it was the end of us.” De Bartolo said, adding that she managed to bring the car to a stop.
De Bartolo was taken to Royal Victoria Regional Health Centre in Barrie while her husband was airlifted to Sunnybrook Hospital’s trauma centre in Toronto.


After the crash, Schenk spent six weeks at Sunnybrook, four of those weeks in a coma on a ventilator. His injuries included a broken jaw and wrist as well as cuts to his face, head and hand.

But more concerning to the family were the injuries the 32-year-old suffered to his brain. Doctors say he suffered a diffuse axonal injury, and De Bartolo says they have been vague about his chances for recovery.

“I feel like they don’t like to say much just because everybody does recover [differently], even if they have the same injury,” De Bartolo said.
Schenk is in a wheelchair and wears a mitt on his right hand to prevent him from scratching off the cast on his left wrist. He’s also trying to communicate but has difficulty talking.

His wife says doctors tell her Schenk likely scores four or five out of eight on the Rancho Los Amigos Scale, which represents non-responsive cognitive functioning on patients who come out of a coma.

She’s been told confusion and aggravation are part of the healing process.

“I can also think that being in a bed all the time and realizing yourself that hey, I can’t walk anymore, I can’t speak properly, people aren’t understanding me, that’s hard for him,” said De Bartolo.

The couple was planning to celebrate their two-year wedding anniversary on Aug. 19, but De Bartolo wonders how they will mark that occasion.
“I don’t know what next week is going to look like,” she said.

The couple says they are still waiting to hear if the driver of the vehicle that lost its wheel is going to be charged. De Bartolo believes someone should be held accountable.

“I know he may not be a bad man, but it’s negligence. And it wasn’t Ben’s negligence,” she said.

Ontario Provincial Police told Global News that charges have yet to be laid, and the investigation remains ongoing.

The couple’s lawyer, Craig Brown, told Global News that Schenk has yet to qualify for catastrophic benefits, which includes up to $1 million for medical rehabilitation and attendant care. De Bartolo says that since it’s unclear if Schenk will ever be able to work again, they are now struggling financially.

“I’m 25, I work full time and I go to school full time. That’s not happening right now,” said De Bartolo.

The family has started a GoFundMe page to help cover rising expenses during Schenk’s recovery.
Last edited by l69norm on Nov 16th, 2019 9:42 am, edited 4 times in total.
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georvu wrote: Think if they are using a torque wrench then they are just setting to like 90 or so for all vehicles.

Maybe varies by Costco but when they retorque have never seen the employee check specs for vehicle... they just bring wrench.

The garages that deal with weekend racers and car clubs they ask for your name and vehicle... check specs... then person retorques... this is based on personal experience.

Really no reason not to buy your own torque wrench and takes literally less then a minute per tire.
I'd hope they would check for most, as they do vary a lot more then people think.
ie: The Chrysler 300 I had asked for 130 lb/ft, same with the little Ford transit van at my old work, it asks for 148 lb/ft! so 90 would be way to low.
More and more modern vehicles are going with larger studs due to larger wheels being popular...
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georvu wrote: Think if they are using a torque wrench then they are just setting to like 90 or so for all vehicles.

Maybe varies by Costco but when they retorque have never seen the employee check specs for vehicle... they just bring wrench.
I worked at one. We check. There's a chart on the wall.
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Yup, that's why I diy, unless one specifies, the shop will usually OVERtorque everything, and even though I have an impact wrench, it still wouldn't come off. Best to have your own torque wrench to verify besides diy.
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The best is watching tire jockeys blast on lugs at well over the required torque rating with the airgun then breaking out the torque wrench for the final step, lol. Ya don't think that torque wrench is going to click off at 90ftlbs when you just blasted those on at probably 200?
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mxthor3 wrote: The best is watching tire jockeys blast on lugs at well over the required torque rating with the airgun then breaking out the torque wrench for the final step, lol. Ya don't think that torque wrench is going to click off at 90ftlbs when you just blasted those on at probably 200?
Impact guns have adjustable power. I use mine on low power as the first step. That brings the wheel nuts to ~50 lb-ft. Then I drop the car and torque everything to spec.

Trying to tighten the wheels by hand while the car is still jacked up doesn't get the wheel clamped tight enough to the hub to put the car's weight on it. The wheels spin too easily to get them tight, unless you have someone step on the brakes. An impact gun manages to tighten the nuts without spinning the wheel.
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derass wrote: Impact guns have adjustable power. I use mine on low power as the first step. That brings the wheel nuts to ~50 lb-ft. Then I drop the car and torque everything to spec.

Trying to tighten the wheels by hand while the car is still jacked up doesn't get the wheel clamped tight enough to the hub to put the car's weight on it. The wheels spin too easily to get them tight, unless you have someone step on the brakes. An impact gun manages to tighten the nuts without spinning the wheel.
I do exactly the same. Turn the gun down, drop the vehicle then torque. There's an audible difference on my IR when going from 1 to 5 or vice versa. If you don't have a gun, spin the wheel in the opposite direction while tightening. Will easily get the lugs tight enough to lower then finish up with the torque wrench.
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To stop the wheel from spinning I lower the jack slightly so the tire tread just contacts the ground which gives enough friction. I do final torquing once the car is fully in the ground.
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l69norm wrote: Really ?

3 wheel loss incidents in one single 30 day period this year, in just a part of the GTA, where the lost wheel struck other cars sending all those other drivers to hospital? Where two of those drivers had to be rushed by air ambulance to a regional trauma centre ?

Where all 3 incidents involved aluminum rims?

See the shoes in this picture by the rear tire?
.
Image

Why don’t you take those shoes back to the driver who suffered the life threatening injuries, was trapped in his car on the side of the highway and had to wait to be cut free by the fire department ? How long did it take for the fire department to reach him?

Explain to him your really cool theory on how his accident is fake news because the odds of it happening are like only one in 12 million

I’m sure he’ll just accept your “facts” that lug nuts don’t need to be checked

............................................................................................................
edit - sadly , the driver can't. The driver suffered a catastrophic brain injury and might never recover.


https://globalnews.ca/news/5461707/flyi ... le-safety/
Posted July 4, 2019 4:37 pm


The wife of a man who is recovering from severe injuries is speaking out about road safety after the couple’s vehicle was hit by a flying tire while travelling on Highway 400.

Benjamin Schenk got up early on the morning of Saturday, May 18 to make sure his car, a Mazda3, was mechanically safe.

“At 7 a.m., he made sure that everything in his car was perfect before making the three-hour drive to his parents’ cottage so he did his due diligence,” said Schenk’s wife, Bella De Bartolo.

The couple decided to spent the Victoria Day long weekend with Schenk’s parents at their cottage and started driving northbound on Highway 400, but when they reached Highway 89, their car was struck by a flying tire and both Schenk and De Bartolo were hit.

“I heard him scream all of a sudden. I was looking out of the window so I was totally oblivious so when he was like, ‘Oh, my God,’ I look and I see this object coming at me,” De Bartolo recalled.

“I didn’t really understand what it was at the time. And then, when it hit us, I realized what it was. I closed my eyes and I felt everything just bang into me and I didn’t hear anything from Ben at all anymore, which was kind of scary.”

De Bartolo says the car was still moving forward at a high rate of speed so she climbed on top of her husband, who was no longer responsive, and tried to put on the brakes. Unsuccessful, she decided to take evasive action against causing a further collision and swerved the steering wheel toward the median.

“I could see [Schenk] from the corner of my eye … I just had to put it out of my head for a second. ‘Isabella, stop the car, you don’t want other people to die.’ I thought I was already dead, I thought he was already dead — I thought it was the end of us.” De Bartolo said, adding that she managed to bring the car to a stop.
De Bartolo was taken to Royal Victoria Regional Health Centre in Barrie while her husband was airlifted to Sunnybrook Hospital’s trauma centre in Toronto.


After the crash, Schenk spent six weeks at Sunnybrook, four of those weeks in a coma on a ventilator. His injuries included a broken jaw and wrist as well as cuts to his face, head and hand.

But more concerning to the family were the injuries the 32-year-old suffered to his brain. Doctors say he suffered a diffuse axonal injury, and De Bartolo says they have been vague about his chances for recovery.

“I feel like they don’t like to say much just because everybody does recover [differently], even if they have the same injury,” De Bartolo said.
Schenk is in a wheelchair and wears a mitt on his right hand to prevent him from scratching off the cast on his left wrist. He’s also trying to communicate but has difficulty talking.

His wife says doctors tell her Schenk likely scores four or five out of eight on the Rancho Los Amigos Scale, which represents non-responsive cognitive functioning on patients who come out of a coma.

She’s been told confusion and aggravation are part of the healing process.

“I can also think that being in a bed all the time and realizing yourself that hey, I can’t walk anymore, I can’t speak properly, people aren’t understanding me, that’s hard for him,” said De Bartolo.

The couple was planning to celebrate their two-year wedding anniversary on Aug. 19, but De Bartolo wonders how they will mark that occasion.
“I don’t know what next week is going to look like,” she said.

The couple says they are still waiting to hear if the driver of the vehicle that lost its wheel is going to be charged. De Bartolo believes someone should be held accountable.

“I know he may not be a bad man, but it’s negligence. And it wasn’t Ben’s negligence,” she said.

Ontario Provincial Police told Global News that charges have yet to be laid, and the investigation remains ongoing.

The couple’s lawyer, Craig Brown, told Global News that Schenk has yet to qualify for catastrophic benefits, which includes up to $1 million for medical rehabilitation and attendant care. De Bartolo says that since it’s unclear if Schenk will ever be able to work again, they are now struggling financially.

“I’m 25, I work full time and I go to school full time. That’s not happening right now,” said De Bartolo.

The family has started a GoFundMe page to help cover rising expenses during Schenk’s recovery.
While the outcome is extremely traumatic and I feel for anyone involved, there is no evidence that those wheels came off as a result of being torqued to spec, but not double check a week or so later, resulting a nut backing off from properly tight to completely loose.

The more likely cause is the wheels and nuts were not properly installed and tightened in the first place.

Again, cause does not take away from the terrible outcome, I am just stating odds are poor install first off, rather than failure to retorque a properly torqued nut.
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Gutty96 wrote: While the outcome is extremely traumatic and I feel for anyone involved, there is no evidence that those wheels came off as a result of being torqued to spec, but not double check a week or so later, resulting a nut backing off from properly tight to completely loose.

The more likely cause is the wheels and nuts were not properly installed and tightened in the first place.

Again, cause does not take away from the terrible outcome, I am just stating odds are poor install first off, rather than failure to retorque a properly torqued nut.
I strongly suggest you watch this news video , which discusses this exact topic
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/driver-criti ... d%3D375756

because it's TWO terrible outcomes, not one
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Gutty96 wrote: While the outcome is extremely traumatic and I feel for anyone involved, there is no evidence that those wheels came off as a result of being torqued to spec, but not double check a week or so later, resulting a nut backing off from properly tight to completely loose.

The more likely cause is the wheels and nuts were not properly installed and tightened in the first place.

Again, cause does not take away from the terrible outcome, I am just stating odds are poor install first off, rather than failure to retorque a properly torqued nut.
+1

Lol, but why did you have to quote him? Yet another crazy irrelevant longwinded rant from that guy, I swear he gets more wordy w each post and again fails to make any rational pt.

Agreed again as I would suspect, any betting man would guess the wheels were never done right from the start, vs done right but not retorqued.
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