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Torn between 2 job offers

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 11th, 2016 5:01 pm

Poll: Job 1 or Job 2??

  • Total votes: 37. You have voted on this poll.
Job 1 = Creative Agency
 
3
8%
Job 2 = Product Company
 
34
92%
Member
Jul 1, 2007
261 posts
13 upvotes

Torn between 2 job offers

Long story short, I'm a designer. I currently have 2 job offers on the table, and I'm torn between the 2. Both are close to me, both would propel my career, just in different directions. The difference in pay is about 11k, which obviously is a lot of money to consider. Job 1 will give me a larger presence as a designer, job 2 will increase my tech skills.

Job 1
Pros: Exciting company culture (super hipster, even the office environment, which I am), agency environment, lots of varieties of clients, lots of varieties of the types of work (packaging, web, apps, brand etc.)
Cons: Offer is at max pay for the position, which is okay, but lower than market rate, its an agency type environment so its rapid pace, don't get to spend a lot of time on your projects because of turn around time

Job 2
Pros: High pay for the position, get to work on a singular project (in-house at a company with a product), really great work/life balance, get to build a meaningful/more scientific approach to the product
Cons: Less "sexy" company (normal carpet, cubicles-ish, but this is improving and changing), less creative (in certain respects as a designer this is important because it makes the mind more rigid, less experimental)
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Sr. Member
Feb 10, 2008
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Toronto
I voted for the higher pay and better work/life balance, but I'm the work-to-live kind of guy...A big question that is missing, is which one has the better boss? They say people don't leave companies, they leave their manager, so did you get a feeling for who would be better to work for?
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Apr 19, 2008
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If cash doesn't matter to me, I would choose the one that has more chicks in it
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Nov 6, 2010
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As a fellow designer, really the choice has to be made based on what you want out of your career. From what I can tell, your 2 offers seem to match the typical dilemma they taught us in school of "consultancy vs corporate/in-house" and the typical associated pros/cons. You've outlined some of the main differences (namely how "quickly" the projects go and their variety) so I won't dwell on that too long unless you want additional feedback (I've done both environments).

You didn't mention your age or where you are in your career, but based on the dilemma I assume you're starting off or a few years in.

I guess if I had to round it down to one question it would be: do you know where you want to go in your design career? If the answer is a hard no, go for consultancy because the variety of work they do will expose you to different things and can help you decide what you want to do. If however you know you want to do X and company 2 specializes in X (or at least is in that field/industry), then go for company 2. Some people know what they want to design (or at least know in what general direction/industry they want to do design in) so they're already passionate about it and don't necessarily want or need to do some exploring. With a consultancy, you'll learn a lot for sure, but with a specific company, you can really delve into the specifics of that company's industry and their expertise and leverage that.
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Feb 29, 2008
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Is there room for advancement at the lower paying place? What I don't like is you're underpaid there and you're at max pay.
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Jul 1, 2007
261 posts
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mrwally wrote: I voted for the higher pay and better work/life balance, but I'm the work-to-live kind of guy...A big question that is missing, is which one has the better boss? They say people don't leave companies, they leave their manager, so did you get a feeling for who would be better to work for?
So Job1 (the Creative Agency) has a CEO that isn't well received, Job2 seems to have a well regarded CEO. I believe bad management tends to waterfall, so a good CEO is a definite concern for me in that regards. But thats all subjective to an extent, expectations vs, reality, so I have no idea who would be better.
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Member
Jul 1, 2007
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uber_shnitz wrote: As a fellow designer, really the choice has to be made based on what you want out of your career. From what I can tell, your 2 offers seem to match the typical dilemma they taught us in school of "consultancy vs corporate/in-house" and the typical associated pros/cons. You've outlined some of the main differences (namely how "quickly" the projects go and their variety) so I won't dwell on that too long unless you want additional feedback (I've done both environments).

You didn't mention your age or where you are in your career, but based on the dilemma I assume you're starting off or a few years in.

I guess if I had to round it down to one question it would be: do you know where you want to go in your design career? If the answer is a hard no, go for consultancy because the variety of work they do will expose you to different things and can help you decide what you want to do. If however you know you want to do X and company 2 specializes in X (or at least is in that field/industry), then go for company 2. Some people know what they want to design (or at least know in what general direction/industry they want to do design in) so they're already passionate about it and don't necessarily want or need to do some exploring. With a consultancy, you'll learn a lot for sure, but with a specific company, you can really delve into the specifics of that company's industry and their expertise and leverage that.
So I turned 30 this year, and I'm about 6 years in. And definitely agreed that this is going to drive my career in a certain direction, whatever I'm gonna choose. I've been to both sides too and the main reason I disliked an agency environment is the very reason its amazing, the breadth of clients and products. I guess I'm really weighing this decision based on how much time i get to spend with the client/product.
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Jul 1, 2007
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JayLove06 wrote: Is there room for advancement at the lower paying place? What I don't like is you're underpaid there and you're at max pay.
So I went over some options and the only way to advance is to move into a new role, and essentially start from the beginning, but the ceiling for that role's salaries is higher. Yeah I agree, the fact that its below market rate yet its the max pay, and they haven't reconsidered this position in the last few years, I think would indicate some kind of fundamental problem in the company.
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wopsang wrote: So I turned 30 this year, and I'm about 6 years in. And definitely agreed that this is going to drive my career in a certain direction, whatever I'm gonna choose. I've been to both sides too and the main reason I disliked an agency environment is the very reason its amazing, the breadth of clients and products. I guess I'm really weighing this decision based on how much time i get to spend with the client/product.
Well seems you're more concerned with taking your time, and taking a project to fruition as opposed to just churning out more business, maybe the in-house place is better, but you'd have to gauge that based on the company itself. Do the products they put out seem to be quality over quantity? Most review websites like Glassdoor won't show relationships the company has with clients typically, but to a designer, you'll sometimes be able to see the quality of their relationships with both client, product and even amongst themselves or their partners through the products they put out.
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Creative agency: smoky mirrors, my dear friend.
They lure you in with fully stocked fridges, free beer, "flexible" work schedule, new and "hip" office space ... Then they underpay you, and work your balls off.
It's not nearly as amazing as it looks. Trust me.
Love,
Ex-creative agency employee
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Mar 31, 2008
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MrsPotato wrote: Creative agency: smoky mirrors, my dear friend.
They lure you in with fully stocked fridges, free beer, "flexible" work schedule, new and "hip" office space ... Then they underpay you, and work your balls off.
It's not nearly as amazing as it looks. Trust me.
Love,
Ex-creative agency employee
Yupp. My wife has worked with many agencies and said the same thing. At your age, take job 2. Trust me. If you had no other options than job 1, and were younger, then take that.

The main advantage of Job 1 though and if you somehow really do excel, develop a great portfolio/track record while building contacts and reputation, it can show to future employers 'you can grind it out'. Often though, the way my wife frames it is "ohh, that person came from an agency so they're used to taking punishment and criticism".

The other thing too is you're competing against a much wider pool of people at job 1 with similar skills and experience. As people age, and your ability to grind it out goes down, market shifts/changes because younger, newer generation of people are more in-tune with the latest haps, you're going to be competing against all those people.

Job 2 seems more impressionable in the future (you'll be associated with that product/brand vs being seen as someone who's come from a background with alot of noise, and dollar store type swag that is easily forgettable. Basically a commodity)

And in 5 years, you'll be seen as a old fogie. Better to have and be in a more standard environment... especially if/when you settle down. Many people who are in their 20s would be competing hard to try to get your Job 2 in a few years when they are worn out or obsolete.
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Mar 11, 2016
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How much influence might you have in making company number 2 head more in the direction of Hipster company 1??
Member
Jul 1, 2007
261 posts
13 upvotes
uber_shnitz wrote:
wopsang wrote: So I turned 30 this year, and I'm about 6 years in. And definitely agreed that this is going to drive my career in a certain direction, whatever I'm gonna choose. I've been to both sides too and the main reason I disliked an agency environment is the very reason its amazing, the breadth of clients and products. I guess I'm really weighing this decision based on how much time i get to spend with the client/product.
Well seems you're more concerned with taking your time, and taking a project to fruition as opposed to just churning out more business, maybe the in-house place is better, but you'd have to gauge that based on the company itself. Do the products they put out seem to be quality over quantity? Most review websites like Glassdoor won't show relationships the company has with clients typically, but to a designer, you'll sometimes be able to see the quality of their relationships with both client, product and even amongst themselves or their partners through the products they put out.
So job1 is a concept company, so most designs don't make it past the idea stage, so nothing is really ever polished (imho) to its fullest potential. I also spoke with a senior designer, who is leaving at the end of the year, and she told me that most designers maybe get 2-3 pieces in their portfolio in a 4 year time frame. Not good if you ask me.
at1212b wrote:
MrsPotato wrote: Creative agency: smoky mirrors, my dear friend.
They lure you in with fully stocked fridges, free beer, "flexible" work schedule, new and "hip" office space ... Then they underpay you, and work your balls off.
It's not nearly as amazing as it looks. Trust me.
Love,
Ex-creative agency employee
Yupp. My wife has worked with many agencies and said the same thing. At your age, take job 2. Trust me. If you had no other options than job 1, and were younger, then take that.

The main advantage of Job 1 though and if you somehow really do excel, develop a great portfolio/track record while building contacts and reputation, it can show to future employers 'you can grind it out'. Often though, the way my wife frames it is "ohh, that person came from an agency so they're used to taking punishment and criticism".

The other thing too is you're competing against a much wider pool of people at job 1 with similar skills and experience. As people age, and your ability to grind it out goes down, market shifts/changes because younger, newer generation of people are more in-tune with the latest haps, you're going to be competing against all those people.

Job 2 seems more impressionable in the future (you'll be associated with that product/brand vs being seen as someone who's come from a background with alot of noise, and dollar store type swag that is easily forgettable. Basically a commodity)

And in 5 years, you'll be seen as a old fogie. Better to have and be in a more standard environment... especially if/when you settle down. Many people who are in their 20s would be competing hard to try to get your Job 2 in a few years when they are worn out or obsolete.
I've been in these places before and the one thing that's always bugged me is the pace, it's sometimes unrealistically quick for turnaround. Also in a few years I want to start a family with my gf, so grinding now in an agency seems counter to what I wanna do. And yeah the age thing and being more with it, I swear I'm feeling a bit left behind already.
Fjr2005 wrote:How much influence might you have in making company number 2 head more in the direction of Hipster company 1??
I've run huge teams before and have successfully made unhip companies a little more hip, but that takes so much energy because of how different it is for most regular folk. Maybe I could give it another shot at job2, if I take it.
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Feb 18, 2016
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wopsang wrote: I've run huge teams before and have successfully made unhip companies a little more hip, but that takes so much energy because of how different it is for most regular folk. Maybe I could give it another shot at job2, if I take it.
How does one do this? Get people to dress more casually and shave less?
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Mar 31, 2008
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wopsang wrote:
uber_shnitz wrote:
wopsang wrote: So I turned 30 this year, and I'm about 6 years in. And definitely agreed that this is going to drive my career in a certain direction, whatever I'm gonna choose. I've been to both sides too and the main reason I disliked an agency environment is the very reason its amazing, the breadth of clients and products. I guess I'm really weighing this decision based on how much time i get to spend with the client/product.
Well seems you're more concerned with taking your time, and taking a project to fruition as opposed to just churning out more business, maybe the in-house place is better, but you'd have to gauge that based on the company itself. Do the products they put out seem to be quality over quantity? Most review websites like Glassdoor won't show relationships the company has with clients typically, but to a designer, you'll sometimes be able to see the quality of their relationships with both client, product and even amongst themselves or their partners through the products they put out.
at1212b wrote:
MrsPotato wrote: Creative agency: smoky mirrors, my dear friend.
They lure you in with fully stocked fridges, free beer, "flexible" work schedule, new and "hip" office space ... Then they underpay you, and work your balls off.
It's not nearly as amazing as it looks. Trust me.
Love,
Ex-creative agency employee
Yupp. My wife has worked with many agencies and said the same thing. At your age, take job 2. Trust me. If you had no other options than job 1, and were younger, then take that.

The main advantage of Job 1 though and if you somehow really do excel, develop a great portfolio/track record while building contacts and reputation, it can show to future employers 'you can grind it out'. Often though, the way my wife frames it is "ohh, that person came from an agency so they're used to taking punishment and criticism".

The other thing too is you're competing against a much wider pool of people at job 1 with similar skills and experience. As people age, and your ability to grind it out goes down, market shifts/changes because younger, newer generation of people are more in-tune with the latest haps, you're going to be competing against all those people.

Job 2 seems more impressionable in the future (you'll be associated with that product/brand vs being seen as someone who's come from a background with alot of noise, and dollar store type swag that is easily forgettable. Basically a commodity)

And in 5 years, you'll be seen as a old fogie. Better to have and be in a more standard environment... especially if/when you settle down. Many people who are in their 20s would be competing hard to try to get your Job 2 in a few years when they are worn out or obsolete.
I've been in these places before and the one thing that's always bugged me is the pace, it's sometimes unrealistically quick for turnaround. Also in a few years I want to start a family with my gf, so grinding now in an agency seems counter to what I wanna do. And yeah the age thing and being more with it, I swear I'm feeling a bit left behind already.

Believe me when I say this.. you'll hit 35 in no time. A old fogie for someone in that industry. Meaning pretty much overnight, you'll go from pulling all-nighters, to just wanting to get home in no-time. Getting married, the most important, starting a family, this should seal the deal in not going for job 1. Especially from a mental health, family peace and financial point of view.
Member
Jul 1, 2007
261 posts
13 upvotes
notfromqc wrote:
wopsang wrote: I've run huge teams before and have successfully made unhip companies a little more hip, but that takes so much energy because of how different it is for most regular folk. Maybe I could give it another shot at job2, if I take it.
How does one do this? Get people to dress more casually and shave less?
Yes, absolutely. Also, no socks and super tight jeans.

In a sense, I think one big hurdle for most companies that are hesitant to adapt a new office structure is that when they think design is a luxury. The best way to affect change in any organization is to just show people possibilities, which can come in forms like bringing in decorations from home, taking down barriers, repurposing meeting rooms as "war rooms", creating new processes that involve learning sessions for stakeholders, etc. Once you start that kind of nuance, and have it work, opportunities present themselves that will ultimately create an environment thats both productive and fun.
Up with hope, down with dope
Member
Jul 1, 2007
261 posts
13 upvotes
at1212b wrote:
wopsang wrote:
uber_shnitz wrote:
Well seems you're more concerned with taking your time, and taking a project to fruition as opposed to just churning out more business, maybe the in-house place is better, but you'd have to gauge that based on the company itself. Do the products they put out seem to be quality over quantity? Most review websites like Glassdoor won't show relationships the company has with clients typically, but to a designer, you'll sometimes be able to see the quality of their relationships with both client, product and even amongst themselves or their partners through the products they put out.
at1212b wrote:
Yupp. My wife has worked with many agencies and said the same thing. At your age, take job 2. Trust me. If you had no other options than job 1, and were younger, then take that.

The main advantage of Job 1 though and if you somehow really do excel, develop a great portfolio/track record while building contacts and reputation, it can show to future employers 'you can grind it out'. Often though, the way my wife frames it is "ohh, that person came from an agency so they're used to taking punishment and criticism".

The other thing too is you're competing against a much wider pool of people at job 1 with similar skills and experience. As people age, and your ability to grind it out goes down, market shifts/changes because younger, newer generation of people are more in-tune with the latest haps, you're going to be competing against all those people.

Job 2 seems more impressionable in the future (you'll be associated with that product/brand vs being seen as someone who's come from a background with alot of noise, and dollar store type swag that is easily forgettable. Basically a commodity)

And in 5 years, you'll be seen as a old fogie. Better to have and be in a more standard environment... especially if/when you settle down. Many people who are in their 20s would be competing hard to try to get your Job 2 in a few years when they are worn out or obsolete.
I've been in these places before and the one thing that's always bugged me is the pace, it's sometimes unrealistically quick for turnaround. Also in a few years I want to start a family with my gf, so grinding now in an agency seems counter to what I wanna do. And yeah the age thing and being more with it, I swear I'm feeling a bit left behind already.

Believe me when I say this.. you'll hit 35 in no time. A old fogie for someone in that industry. Meaning pretty much overnight, you'll go from pulling all-nighters, to just wanting to get home in no-time. Getting married, the most important, starting a family, this should seal the deal in not going for job 1. Especially from a mental health, family peace and financial point of view.
I had a talk with my gf last night and told her that before we met my life, and this stands true for most designers, was dedicated to design. Now that we've been together for a while and I can picture a future with a family, work solely dedicated to design doesn't seem as important nowadays because theres so much more to life. I guess this is just part of getting ooooooooooooooold.
Up with hope, down with dope
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Mar 31, 2008
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This new posting system is kinda messed. This is what I meant to write:

Believe me when I say this.. you'll hit 35 in no time. A old fogie for someone in that industry. Meaning pretty much overnight, you'll go from pulling all-nighters, to just wanting to get home and taking care of family life. Getting married, and the most important, starting a family where family balance is most important, this should seal the deal in not going for job 1. Especially from a mental health, family peace and financial point of view.
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Nov 6, 2010
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Even from a design point of view, I personally don't like some places that I dub "design factories" where the goal is just to pump through design after design after design. I like being able to sit there and see the design come to fruition, improving it along the way and in some cases, improving it post launch. Some agencies just churn out concepts like nobody's business and while from a design point of view they may be very good, there's just not that extra depth that comes from actually getting through it all.

Even as a young designer who just started their career, I value to an extent the structure, resources and abilities that large organizations have. Most of my classmates do like the "excitement" of working at agencies/consultancies where you're always doing something different, but I personally just like doing something and doing it well.

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