Automotive

Toyota and Lexus to launch three EVs by 2021

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 22nd, 2019 1:19 am
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
58648 posts
24637 upvotes

Toyota and Lexus to launch three EVs by 2021

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/moto ... e-evs-2021

Toyota and its luxury brand Lexus will offer three electric models within the next two years, the company has confirmed.

While no more details were given on the models, a futuristic, electric Lexus concept, to be revealed next week at the Tokyo motor show, will demonstrate the technology behind the upcoming EVs ahead of production.
Toyota pioneered hybrids, first launching the powertrain in the 1997 Prius, but has been slow to adopt plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles. It does, however, sell a plug-in variant of the Prius.

Talking at the launch of the revised RX, deputy chief engineer Naohisa Hatta said: “If you look at a hybrid, it’s [made up of] a battery, engine, motor and PCU. If you increase the battery part, then it becomes a PHEV. If you take ICE out, it becomes pure EV.

“We already have the technology. We’re waiting for the right time. It has to make business sense. It has to make profit. If you look at the facts of what’s happening in the market now; for example, PHEV technology is reflected in the price [of cars]. If we are going to have an EV in the line-up it has to be affordable to normal users.”

Debating the comparison between Toyota and Lexus’s hybrid system and PHEVs, a spokesman said: “Today, the most efficicent route is the hybrid drivetrain in real-world situtations.” It cited third-party data which shows that PHEVs are often run on petrol alone, giving an example of an RX achieving 43mpg versus a PHEV rival achieving 32mpg.

While Toyota and Lexus remain reserved on the introduction of EVs and PHEVs, confirmation that the brands will introduce three zero-emissions models by 2021 reflects the need to meet increasingly stringent emissions targets globally.
77 replies
Deal Fanatic
Mar 21, 2013
6155 posts
10805 upvotes
Canada
Good to see. I really like the quote about having the tech from the deputy chief engineer.
alanbrenton wrote: Debating the comparison between Toyota and Lexus’s hybrid system and PHEVs, a spokesman said: “Today, the most efficicent route is the hybrid drivetrain in real-world situtations.” It cited third-party data which shows that PHEVs are often run on petrol alone, giving an example of an RX achieving 43mpg versus a PHEV rival achieving 32mpg.
This quote is hilarious in its spin.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
58648 posts
24637 upvotes
Blubbs wrote: Good to see. I really like the quote about having the tech from the deputy chief engineer.



This quote is hilarious in its spin.
I have been saying this all along lol.
“If you look at a hybrid, it’s [made up of] a battery, engine, motor and PCU. If you increase the battery part, then it becomes a PHEV. If you take ICE out, it becomes pure EV.
Deal Fanatic
Jan 8, 2009
6237 posts
4776 upvotes
Ontario
alanbrenton wrote: I have been saying this all along lol.
“If you look at a hybrid, it’s [made up of] a battery, engine, motor and PCU. If you increase the battery part, then it becomes a PHEV. If you take ICE out, it becomes pure EV.
So just pull the ICE out of a Prius prime and you get an instant Tesla?

The whole article sounds to me like they have NOTHING in terms of a competitive BEV.
Banned
Feb 6, 2017
2176 posts
1263 upvotes
This article makes sense to me and confirms my general observations over the years and especially recently. You guys know that I'm an advocate of PHEVs and with my history of having to decide between a Bolt and a Volt, I've had a lot of time to reflect over the choice that I made, having weighed the pros and cons of each numerous times. It also aligns with my current threads where I ranted against manufacturers not pushing out any household BEVs, most of the upcoming line up of BEVs are luxury ones which the common folk are priced out of.

So it would make sense to me why some of these companies are pushing out PHEVs before BEVs, simply because they're more affordable to the normal user. The site Electrek griped about why Toyota is releasing the Rav4 PHEV before the Rav4 BEV and the spokesperson here confirms that it's all due to affordability and it does make sense. If a Kia Niro BEV and Hyundai BEV costs over 50k Cdn, how much do you think a Rav4 BEV would cost?

The only question or possible disagreement that I have with the article is that the hybrid drive-terrain is the most efficient route in real word situations. 3rd party data which sites that PHEVs are often run on petrol alone doesn't align with the use-case with my Volt. unless often means 10% of the time at most. Imo, 90% on electric PHEV would surely beat out a hybrid in efficiency over the long run if the cost margin isn't huge.

BEV technology is still a few years away at least in terms of affordability imo and even then we would need generous government subsidies to make them enticing.

I think that PHEV technology will be very much relevant for years to come, that is until they can get the price of BEVs down, increase their range and improve the charging infrastructure throughout.
Deal Fanatic
Jan 8, 2009
6237 posts
4776 upvotes
Ontario
HN12345 wrote: This article makes sense to me and confirms my general observations over the years and especially recently. You guys know that I'm an advocate of PHEVs and with my history of having to decide between a Bolt and a Volt, I've had a lot of time to reflect over the choice that I made, having weighed the pros and cons of each numerous times. It also aligns with my current threads where I ranted against manufacturers not pushing out any household BEVs, most of the upcoming line up of BEVs are luxury ones which the common folk are priced out of.

So it would make sense to me why some of these companies are pushing out PHEVs before BEVs, simply because they're more affordable to the normal user. The site Electrek griped about why Toyota is releasing the Rav4 PHEV before the Rav4 BEV and the spokesperson here confirms that it's all due to affordability and it does make sense. If a Kia Niro BEV and Hyundai BEV costs over 50k Cdn, how much do you think a Rav4 BEV would cost?

The only question or possible disagreement that I have with the article is that the hybrid drive-terrain is the most efficient route in real word situations. 3rd party data which sites that PHEVs are often run on petrol alone doesn't align with the use-case with my Volt. unless often means 10% of the time at most. Imo, 90% on electric PHEV would surely beat out a hybrid in efficiency over the long run if the cost margin isn't huge.

BEV technology is still a few years away at least in terms of affordability imo and even then we would need generous government subsidies to make them enticing.

I think that PHEV technology will be very much relevant for years to come, that is until they can get the price of BEVs down, increase their range and improve the charging infrastructure throughout.
If you are expecting the plug-in RAV4H to have anything like the range of a Volt I think you will be very disappointed. The Volt has an 18.4kWh battery pack whereas the Prius Prime has an 8.8kWh pack so I would expect the RAV PHEV to be closer to the latter than the former especially bearing in mind battery space constraints.

The reason that Toyota and other legacy manufacturers like PHEVs is that they still get to keep dealerships busy with ICE servicing and can build them with little investment by modifying ICE models.

You mention the Niro costing over $50k but the RAV4H Limited costs $45k so presumably the plug-in will be more. So the argument they are cheaper falls down especially taking into account whole life costs. In addition the Niro is probably overpriced for what it is compared to a TM3.

The legacy manufacturers can keep postulating and prevaricating and watch Tesla gradually overtake them.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 25, 2004
7009 posts
6859 upvotes
Ottawa
HN12345 wrote: So it would make sense to me why some of these companies are pushing out PHEVs before BEVs, simply because they're more affordable to the normal user.
The main reason manufacturers love them is two fold. They qualify for credits, AND the dealers will actually promote them because they still require some sort of servicing down the road. Don't kid yourself - the dealer network is one of the main reasons we don't have more BEV's available.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 25, 2004
7009 posts
6859 upvotes
Ottawa
It's too bad the "Waiting for EV's" thread was closed. This thread right here was prime material for it (and the OP even requested it).
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 5, 2008
18182 posts
14186 upvotes
Toronto
Konowl wrote: It's too bad the "Waiting for EV's" thread was closed. This thread right here was prime material for it (and the OP even requested it).
we all know he would never use that thread seeing how he didn't start it.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 6, 2010
15881 posts
10565 upvotes
Toronto
This needs a thread for what?
DIY difficulty scale:
0-joke
10-no joke
Member
Mar 11, 2019
306 posts
177 upvotes
We already have the technology. We’re waiting for the right time. It has to make business sense. It has to make profit. If you look at the facts of what’s happening in the market now; for example, PHEV technology is reflected in the price [of cars]. If we are going to have an EV in the line-up it has to be affordable to normal users.”

To me this is the most interesting part of that article. I wonder what the cost of the engine in the prius is and how much bigger the battery gets with that savings.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
58648 posts
24637 upvotes
From Lexus Enthusiasts, it sounds like the three will be: C-HR EV, Izoa EV, and UXEV

Apart from that, Toyota will likely show case its solid state batteries next year.
Toyota Provides Diverse Mobility for Tokyo 2020, including a Full Line-up of Electrified Vehicles
https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corpo ... 32815.html
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 5, 2008
18182 posts
14186 upvotes
Toronto
alanbrenton wrote: From Lexus Enthusiasts, it sounds like the three will be: C-HR EV, Izoa EV, and UXEV

Apart from that, Toyota will likely show case its solid state batteries next year.
Toyota Provides Diverse Mobility for Tokyo 2020, including a Full Line-up of Electrified Vehicles
https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corpo ... 32815.html
"full lineup" for the Olympics including some scooter looking thing called "walking area BEV".

Other than the Mirai, none of this is relevant to passenger cars we may/may not get.
Banned
User avatar
Mar 7, 2007
5347 posts
3026 upvotes
rf134a wrote:

Image
There is a market for that size (tiny car). But I'm not sure it is growing.

I'd buy one. Just to take me from my place to the GO train station. And have a bigger second car. But most people wouldn't want it, the public wants a car that looks normal, and it's average size, and it just happens to be electric.
______________________________
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 17, 2006
6913 posts
5816 upvotes
Burlington
motomondo wrote: There is a market for that size (tiny car). But I'm not sure it is growing.

I'd buy one. Just to take me from my place to the GO train station. And have a bigger second car. But most people wouldn't want it, the public wants a car that looks normal, and it's average size, and it just happens to be electric.
at a stop speed of 60km/h. you'd be pissing off all the Go train users. They rush to the train, and here you are strolling in a scooter.
Deal Addict
May 2, 2017
1918 posts
2941 upvotes
motomondo wrote: There is a market for that size (tiny car). But I'm not sure it is growing.

I'd buy one. Just to take me from my place to the GO train station. And have a bigger second car. But most people wouldn't want it, the public wants a car that looks normal, and it's average size, and it just happens to be electric.
The market for that type of car is mostly overseas. They have tons of them already (especially in Japan), but none of the manufacturers ever bring them here, as they don't sell well.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
58648 posts
24637 upvotes
konsensei wrote: at a stop speed of 60km/h. you'd be pissing off all the Go train users. They rush to the train, and here you are strolling in a scooter.
True, on Speers Road most drive around 70 on a 60 zone.

Maybe putting a baby on board sticker on the rear of the car will appease these speed demons.

But I heard from the grapevine that there will be "turbo boost" on these kei cars to get them to 69 easily.
Deal Guru
Sep 1, 2004
12900 posts
13102 upvotes
TheTall wrote: The market for that type of car is mostly overseas. They have tons of them already (especially in Japan), but none of the manufacturers ever bring them here, as they don't sell well.
These tiny cars are basically mobility solutions for seniors in Japan.

Just came back from Europe, if you are young and able, you are already on a e-scooter. And for most of the time, it's quicker than anything with 3 or 4 wheels. So these won't fly in Europe either.

But in the back streets of small towns in Japan, I can see this work. I can see tons of these in narrow roads of Hakone. But if you can afford a car, I doubt people will buy one with such limited capability.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Nov 15, 2004
21786 posts
4903 upvotes
Toronto
TheTall wrote: The market for that type of car is mostly overseas. They have tons of them already (especially in Japan), but none of the manufacturers ever bring them here, as they don't sell well.
Those would sell like hotcakes in places where the bulk of the population currently rides motorcycles. Vietnam and other developing countries would love the security of a car with a footprint not too much bigger than a bike.
Konowl wrote: The main reason manufacturers love them is two fold. They qualify for credits, AND the dealers will actually promote them because they still require some sort of servicing down the road. Don't kid yourself - the dealer network is one of the main reasons we don't have more BEV's available.
I think the ideal would be a BEV with some capacity for an add-on module containing a bigger battery or a generator. Aircraft have had drop tanks and conformal fuel tanks for close to a century now, and there's nothing stopping a car from having the same in the form of a battery pack or other power module. Cell phones, laptops, drones, etc have had secondary battery packs available for ages now.

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)