Computers & Electronics

TP Link Deco Mesh System help

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 16th, 2020 10:26 am
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 7, 2014
45 posts
16 upvotes
Toronto, ON

TP Link Deco Mesh System help

Hello All,

Looking for some guidance and help from our resident expert RedFlag community. I'm interested in puchasing the TP Link Deco Mesh system for a 3000 Sqfoot home. Our Bell 3000 Router is in the basement towards the front of the home and we have dead spots on the 2nd floor and back of the home. My wife and I both work from home so cant compromise on speed nor reliability. We have the Fibe 1GB Down package with Bell. I'm looking to create a Mesh system for under $200 where i dont have any issues for 5 years minimum. Is this a good buy or can the community recommend something else more bang for the buck?

TP-Link Deco Whole Home Mesh WiFi System – Up to 5,500 Sq. Ft. Coverage,WiFi Router/WiFi Extender Replacement, AC1200 Gigabit Ports, Seamless Roaming, Parental Controls,Works w/ Alexa (Deco M4 3-Pack)
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07NF6 ... UTF8&psc=1
28 replies
Deal Guru
Feb 9, 2006
12780 posts
7474 upvotes
Brampton
"cant compromise on speed nor reliability"

Proceeds to compromise.

A mesh system using only wireless backhaul is a compromise. $200 will get you something that works but it's definitely a compromise. Even the TP-Link you linked is already $250.

So my question to you is how serious are you about the no compromise part?
Newbie
Feb 9, 2020
69 posts
17 upvotes
Etobicoke
ammadno1 wrote: Hello All,

Looking for some guidance and help from our resident expert RedFlag community. I'm interested in puchasing the TP Link Deco Mesh system for a 3000 Sqfoot home. Our Bell 3000 Router is in the basement towards the front of the home and we have dead spots on the 2nd floor and back of the home. My wife and I both work from home so cant compromise on speed nor reliability. We have the Fibe 1GB Down package with Bell. I'm looking to create a Mesh system for under $200 where i dont have any issues for 5 years minimum. Is this a good buy or can the community recommend something else more bang for the buck?

TP-Link Deco Whole Home Mesh WiFi System – Up to 5,500 Sq. Ft. Coverage,WiFi Router/WiFi Extender Replacement, AC1200 Gigabit Ports, Seamless Roaming, Parental Controls,Works w/ Alexa (Deco M4 3-Pack)
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07NF6 ... UTF8&psc=1
I recently bought a TP-Link Deco M5 3 Pack for $229.99 + HST from best buy for my place and honestly it is very easy to set up. One router has to be connected direct to your HH3000 and the other two can be placed anywhere you want given you have an electric outlet. While it does says over 5,500 you might need to purchase another 2/3 set to get the best buck for your money. Try it out and see if one pack of 3 will actually cover your dead spot . Best buy has a easy return policy so you don't have to worry about that

My only issue is that my Brother Printer (WiFi) is giving me a issue installing the drivers and what not, I believe I have to bridge my HH3000 and it will resolve the problem I'll do that on the weekend when I call bell.
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
1320 posts
954 upvotes
Québec
ammadno1 wrote: Hello All,

Looking for some guidance and help from our resident expert RedFlag community. I'm interested in puchasing the TP Link Deco Mesh system for a 3000 Sqfoot home. Our Bell 3000 Router is in the basement towards the front of the home and we have dead spots on the 2nd floor and back of the home. My wife and I both work from home so cant compromise on speed nor reliability. We have the Fibe 1GB Down package with Bell. I'm looking to create a Mesh system for under $200 where i dont have any issues for 5 years minimum. Is this a good buy or can the community recommend something else more bang for the buck?

TP-Link Deco Whole Home Mesh WiFi System – Up to 5,500 Sq. Ft. Coverage,WiFi Router/WiFi Extender Replacement, AC1200 Gigabit Ports, Seamless Roaming, Parental Controls,Works w/ Alexa (Deco M4 3-Pack)
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07NF6 ... UTF8&psc=1
The m4 has no DFS channels support, so your bandwith will be limitted. If you want to spend 67 dollars per unit, that's normal.
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 7, 2014
45 posts
16 upvotes
Toronto, ON
@tebore we want something reasonably priced, we just don't want issues of dead spots or dropping network throughout the home. So ofcourse I'm not looking for the perfect solution for $200 but atleast something reliable
[OP]
Newbie
Sep 7, 2014
45 posts
16 upvotes
Toronto, ON
@iHibachi thanks for the info on the M5, I was actually looking into it so might just go with M5.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Oct 16, 2008
9732 posts
4044 upvotes
Vaughan
ammadno1 wrote: @tebore we want something reasonably priced, we just don't want issues of dead spots or dropping network throughout the home. So ofcourse I'm not looking for the perfect solution for $200 but atleast something reliable
If it is that easy. Nobody wants dead spots; nobody wants to spend that money. No wifi equipments that is bullet proof.
...
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jun 12, 2007
18332 posts
5958 upvotes
London
Another alternative is to move the HH3000 to a more central place in the house. My understanding is that the Bell fibre/ HH3000 installers are not allowed to run fibre inside the house so they drop the HH3000 right where the Bell fibre enters the house, regardless of whether it's a good place or not.

You would need to buy the correct fibre extension and run it to a better location,( about $30 for the fibre extension). The Bell fibre would unplug from the HH3000 and your new extension fibre would go in it's place
Member
Oct 23, 2013
210 posts
311 upvotes
Toronto
Have you considered the M9 Plus? It has wireless dedicated backhaul, which will help out with the speed if you're not linking the individual routers via ethernet. The 2 pack is usually similar/same price as the 3 pck M5.
Deal Guru
Feb 9, 2006
12780 posts
7474 upvotes
Brampton
unlocknow wrote: Have you considered the M9 Plus? It has wireless dedicated backhaul, which will help out with the speed if you're not linking the individual routers via ethernet. The 2 pack is usually similar/same price as the 3 pck M5.
Dedicated wireless backhauls are slightly better but don't completely shy away from the problem. You really need to use wired backhauls to avoid the issue. I get it wireless back hauls are better than nothing.

As I always say there's only so much airspace.

2.4 Is pretty much a write off these days.

With 5ghz there's pretty much 2-4 useful channels depending on your channel width. No one wants to use anything less than 80mhz these days ideally aiming for 160mhz in the most ideal situations. You dedicate one of these channels to the Backhaul and you have less airspace for the rest of your clients or you overlap them and there's interference.

Then there's the issue of airtime. When something is transmitting the rest of the traffic has to wait (that's why there's airtime fairness settings so a single radio doesn't monopolize airtime).

So the question stands to the OP. Do you want something for $200 and compromise for something that "Just works" or are you serious about not compromising on speed and reliability?

There hasn't been a single Mesh system out there I've come across that would be something I would use in my home.
People who usually move to these and love them usually come from the Modem/Router combo that comes from the ISP.

You can google M5 Deco and M9 Deco and you'll find people do have issues with the backhaul dropping or clients dropping.
Even the Linksys Velop or Orbi. They're not trouble free.

If you don't mind running a couple wires you might actually get more trouble free wireless just running one of these
https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-EAP245-Wi ... 7993&psc=1

Per floor and connecting it to your HH3000.
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
1320 posts
954 upvotes
Québec
tebore wrote: Dedicated wireless backhauls are slightly better but don't completely shy away from the problem. You really need to use wired backhauls to avoid the issue. I get it wireless back hauls are better than nothing.

As I always say there's only so much airspace.

2.4 Is pretty much a write off these days.

With 5ghz there's pretty much 2-4 useful channels depending on your channel width. No one wants to use anything less than 80mhz these days ideally aiming for 160mhz in the most ideal situations. You dedicate one of these channels to the Backhaul and you have less airspace for the rest of your clients or you overlap them and there's interference.

Then there's the issue of airtime. When something is transmitting the rest of the traffic has to wait (that's why there's airtime fairness settings so a single radio doesn't monopolize airtime).

So the question stands to the OP. Do you want something for $200 and compromise for something that "Just works" or are you serious about not compromising on speed and reliability?

There hasn't been a single Mesh system out there I've come across that would be something I would use in my home.
People who usually move to these and love them usually come from the Modem/Router combo that comes from the ISP.

You can google M5 Deco and M9 Deco and you'll find people do have issues with the backhaul dropping or clients dropping.
Even the Linksys Velop or Orbi. They're not trouble free.

If you don't mind running a couple wires you might actually get more trouble free wireless just running one of these
https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-EAP245-Wi ... 7993&psc=1

Per floor and connecting it to your HH3000.
The M9 has dedicated channel, it mean the DFS channels that scan for radar. Thoses are from 5250-5710. What you are refering to by the 5GHz channels is 5.2 +5.8 GHz channel, the non DFS.

more info here:

https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/763/
Last edited by elgros4 on Jul 15th, 2020 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Member
Sep 30, 2015
355 posts
116 upvotes
York, ON
I maybe mistaken, but I read Bell provides mesh systems. I am with Rogers ignite, and I got 3 pods free, altho I only use 2 of them. Yes, there is definite speed penalty, but it works out ok for me both streaming and regular surfing for me and my wife. I suggest you investigate with Bell before you sink 200+ dollars.
Here is a link to Bell's mesh system:
https://support.bell.ca/internet/connec ... i_use_them
Newbie
Feb 9, 2020
69 posts
17 upvotes
Etobicoke
krist8 wrote: I maybe mistaken, but I read Bell provides mesh systems. I am with Rogers ignite, and I got 3 pods free, altho I only use 2 of them. Yes, there is definite speed penalty, but it works out ok for me both streaming and regular surfing for me and my wife. I suggest you investigate with Bell before you sink 200+ dollars.
Here is a link to Bell's mesh system:
https://support.bell.ca/internet/connec ... i_use_them
A couple of issues with those Bell Pods. One it per month cost, eventually the cost renting over 5 years (as per OP post) will be more then buying a decent mesh router. Second, in terms of speed and quality of single strength it not good. Those pods at best got me 250 mps per second on a 1 GB plan from Bell. I rather spend money on a decent system once even if it over the budget of $200 then regretting it later on when you tried to save money.
Member
Sep 30, 2015
355 posts
116 upvotes
York, ON
ok, I do not realize the bell pods are not free (unlike my Rogers ignite pods). But op can still get them and try it out for a month or 2 before deciding to buy.
Also, if you get 250 mbps down, that should support video streaming and office work for 2 users.
Last edited by krist8 on Jul 15th, 2020 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Guru
Feb 9, 2006
12780 posts
7474 upvotes
Brampton
elgros4 wrote: The M9 has dedicated channel, it mean the DFS channels that scan for radar. Thoses are from 5250-5710. What you are refering to by the 5GHz channels is 5.2 +5.8 GHz channel, the non DFS.

more info here:

https://www.tp-link.com/us/support/faq/763/
Did you want to finish your thought?
Nothing you said changed what I said.
You also seem to have what DFS means confused with a wireless backhaul.
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
1320 posts
954 upvotes
Québec
tebore wrote: Did you want to finish your thought?
Nothing you said changed what I said.
You also seem to have what DFS means confused with a wireless backhaul.
Sorry if I was not clear. There 2 types of wireless backhaul for mesh network. DFS and not DFS. The not DFS one reuse the same spectrum that is used to connect between client (IE smartphone) and the mesh.

The DFS one use the exclusives DFS channels, then there is no spectrum sharing. But I agree that the best option is wired backhaul, but at this point it's not behaving almost like acess point...
Deal Guru
Feb 9, 2006
12780 posts
7474 upvotes
Brampton
elgros4 wrote: Sorry if I was not clear. There 2 types of wireless backhaul for mesh network. DFS and not DFS. The not DFS one reuse the same spectrum that is used to connect between client (IE smartphone) and the mesh.

The DFS one use the exclusives DFS channels, then there is no spectrum sharing. But I agree that the best option is wired backhaul, but at this point it's not behaving almost like acess point...
Yeh... that's not exactly what dedicated wireless backhaul means.

DFS is just a range of Channels within the "5ghz" spectrum. DFS channels can be used by any AC device even cell phones. Provided that the firmware did not lock it out. Using DFS is a fool's errand the most part unless you're in a completely isolated space with no chance of RADAR, weather stations etc.

The Deco M9 has 3 radios instead of 2 that the M5 has.

So without looking at the tech spec for each of those.

Basically both have a "2.4" & "5" ghz Radio. The M9 has additional 5Ghz Radio so it can have a dedicated back haul. Both "5ghz" radios can use DFS channels or Non-DFS channels. They can even use the 2.4 Radio for backhaul stealing up for 50% per radio. But you'll see as the explanation goes it's not great. Also at this point 2.4 ghz is a write off because of all the interference you'll likely be locked in the 20mhz channel width.
Each Radio can have at least 2 streams (They should have more but I'm not looking it up). But each stream can only send or receive at a time not at the same time.
So what happens is the M9 will use 1 radio to connect to the rest of the mesh network (Backhaul) and the other radio will be used the client to base station communication. Why is this important?

If you use The same radio you to connect the AP to the mesh and AP to client. What happens is AP can only send or receive from the client it cannot immediately send to the rest of the mesh. It will have to accept the packet from the client and the send it back to the mesh. That already introduces latency and effectively halves your speed.
If you have 2 radios You can use one to receive a packet from the client and immediately/simultaneously send using other radio to the mesh network.
Sounds good right?
Except there's only a couple usable channels that don't overlap, just like with 2.4Ghz. No one who wants a stable network not in the middle of no where will accept DFS channels. (APs are supposed to jump off as soon as it detects anything in that range, which is a bad thing)
In the 80Mhz channel width there's 6 channels that don't overlap. Only 2 fall outside of the DFS range. So realistically only 2 usable channels.

You should read this
https://www.revolutionwifi.net/revoluti ... nning.html
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
1320 posts
954 upvotes
Québec
tebore wrote: Yeh... that's not exactly what dedicated wireless backhaul means.

DFS is just a range of Channels within the "5ghz" spectrum. DFS channels can be used by any AC device even cell phones. Provided that the firmware did not lock it out. Using DFS is a fool's errand the most part unless you're in a completely isolated space with no chance of RADAR, weather stations etc.

The Deco M9 has 3 radios instead of 2 that the M5 has.

So without looking at the tech spec for each of those.

Basically both have a "2.4" & "5" ghz Radio. The M9 has additional 5Ghz Radio so it can have a dedicated back haul. Both "5ghz" radios can use DFS channels or Non-DFS channels. They can even use the 2.4 Radio for backhaul stealing up for 50% per radio. But you'll see as the explanation goes it's not great. Also at this point 2.4 ghz is a write off because of all the interference you'll likely be locked in the 20mhz channel width.
Each Radio can have at least 2 streams (They should have more but I'm not looking it up). But each stream can only send or receive at a time not at the same time.
So what happens is the M9 will use 1 radio to connect to the rest of the mesh network (Backhaul) and the other radio will be used the client to base station communication. Why is this important?

If you use The same radio you to connect the AP to the mesh and AP to client. What happens is AP can only send or receive from the client it cannot immediately send to the rest of the mesh. It will have to accept the packet from the client and the send it back to the mesh. That already introduces latency and effectively halves your speed.
If you have 2 radios You can use one to receive a packet from the client and immediately/simultaneously send using other radio to the mesh network.
Sounds good right?
Except there's only a couple usable channels that don't overlap, just like with 2.4Ghz. No one who wants a stable network not in the middle of no where will accept DFS channels. (APs are supposed to jump off as soon as it detects anything in that range, which is a bad thing)
In the 80Mhz channel width there's 6 channels that don't overlap. Only 2 fall outside of the DFS range. So realistically only 2 usable channels.

You should read this
https://www.revolutionwifi.net/revoluti ... nning.html
Weather radar in this band are not common at all ! you look in ISED database in your area, you will see.

802.11ac router that support DFS are very rare contrary to what your are saying.

Look here for the list:

https://sms-sgs.ic.gc.ca/equipmentSearc ... lang=en_CA

you can search for radars here:

https://sms-sgs.ic.gc.ca/frequencySearc ... lang=en_CA

Also, you don't need 160 MHz channel to reach a gigabit speed, with 80MHz you may reach a gigabit speed.
Last edited by elgros4 on Jul 15th, 2020 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Guru
Feb 9, 2006
12780 posts
7474 upvotes
Brampton
elgros4 wrote: Weather radar in this band are not common at all ! you look in ISED database in your area, you will see.
That's just one use of the spectrum. There's other things that use the DFS range including actual radar. If you had a large enterprise building where you need some APs inside a concrete building in a basement you could use that range no problem.
But there's other reasons to not like the DFS range. There's also limits on power levels on DFS. Certain countries disallow DFS channel use in AC wifi.

https://mac-wifi.com/why-i-dislike-dfs- ... might-too/

The point stands tho you misunderstood what DFS and dedicated backhaul meant.

You are still very confused to what DFS and backhaul is.
Deal Addict
Sep 13, 2011
1320 posts
954 upvotes
Québec
tebore wrote: That's just one use of the spectrum. There's other things that use the DFS range including actual radar. If you had a large enterprise building where you need some APs inside a concrete building in a basement you could use that range no problem.
But there's other reasons to not like the DFS range. There's also limits on power levels on DFS. Certain countries disallow DFS channel use in AC wifi.

https://mac-wifi.com/why-i-dislike-dfs- ... might-too/

The point stands tho you misunderstood what DFS and dedicated backhaul meant.

You are still very confused to what DFS and backhaul is.
You are right about the power requierement, it's limited to 250 mW.

I did not misunderstood anuthing, in case you did not figure it out, I work in this industry. If you are really interested, I can provide you with the regulation.
Last edited by elgros4 on Jul 15th, 2020 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)