Real Estate

TREB's Statment on Foreign Buyers

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  • May 7th, 2017 8:43 pm
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[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3788 upvotes
Thornhill

TREB's Statment on Foreign Buyers

Excerpt:

In an effort to further the research into foreign buying activity, speculative buying and selling (“flipping”), and ownership of more than one property, TREB analyzed aggregated annual property sales, and aggregated residential data provided by the Municipal Property Assessment Corporation (MPAC) and Teranet Inc. (Teranet) for the Greater Golden Horseshoe (GGH), specifically between 2008 and April 2017.

A summary of TREB’s key findings from an analysis of the data:
  • The number of buyers with a mailing address outside of Canada is well-below one per cent, regardless of the year. Most of these buyers have a mailing address in the United States.
  • Between 2008 and April 2017, the average share of foreign buyers in the GGH was 2.3 per cent. The share was 2.2 per cent in 2016 and 2.6 per cent for the January through April period in 2017. The majority of foreign buyers – 87 to 90+ per cent – purchased their home as a place to live: 91.5 per cent in 2016 and 88 per cent January through April in 2017.
  • The trend from 2008 to April 2017 suggests that the share of foreign home buyers has remained low. The results also follow the results from earlier released data from an Ipsos survey of TREB Members conducted in the fall of 2016. The Ipsos survey results estimated that 4.9 per cent of transactions undertaken between the fall of 2015 and the fall of 2016 were accounted for by foreign buyers. The Ipsos survey results had an estimated margin of error of ± 2 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
  • Between 2008 and April 2017, homes bought and sold within a short period of time – within one year of the original transaction – by domestic or foreign buyers accounted for a very small share (less than five per cent in 2016 and approximately seven per cent between January and April 2017) of total transactions.
  • TREB analyzed the ratio of property owners that owned more than one property in the GGH to the total number of properties. As of April 2017, this was a relatively small 6.2 per cent of total properties.
http://www.trebhome.com/market_news/rel ... h_0417.htm
110 replies
Banned
Nov 18, 2014
824 posts
769 upvotes
Toronto, ON
then this would have no effect on the market! I think we should increase FBT to 100% :)
Deal Addict
Jul 23, 2014
1257 posts
454 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Honestly, this is just my thoughts but foreign investors understand the cap tax gain on more than 1 property and avoid it at all costs (hence the numbers being so low reported by TREB). They are using loopholes such as having family members purchase and sell as their primary residence. It's quite common near me where I would see young owners (25-35) driving Lambo's and Bentley's. They're very reclusive and aren't living in the house for 75% of the time. A year later, the house is for sale and left empty for another buyer.

Is it rampant? Is it localized? Who knows what the numbers are, but it does happen and its enough that it affects the market.

If everyone played by the book, then speculating RE wouldnt be worth it... with the FB tax, cap gain tax, CRA made rules that to discourage this from happening.

However, that only works if people followed them, people skirting these rules to eliminate those taxes and you got a very lucrative incentive to do so.

CRA doesnt have the resources to go chase down these people... so those with money will chance it because they know what would happen if the OFF chance they do get caught... They pay a fine...

The juice is worth the squeeze.
Last edited by RFD6482 on May 3rd, 2017 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Deal Addict
Oct 29, 2010
4362 posts
697 upvotes
Even if you're foreign buyer, why would you list your address out of Canada? Just put it as an address of a local relative. It's just a guess but I would assume that's what most people do.
Sr. Member
Apr 24, 2013
579 posts
288 upvotes
Toronto
Since 2008???

The interesting part is after the Vancouver FBT, how many buyers moved to TO? That is from the past 6 months.

What the fck does 2008 have to do with the recent 30% increase? Seriously the guys at the TREB are fcking rtarded. God, people are stupid.
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[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3788 upvotes
Thornhill
john5170 wrote: Since 2008???

The interesting part is after the Vancouver FBT, how many buyers moved to TO? That is from the past 6 months.

What the fck does 2008 have to do with the recent 30% increase? Seriously the guys at the TREB are fcking rtarded. God, people are stupid.
So while prices within the GTA have been going nuts since 2008, you're presuming that the foregners didn't start buying here until 6 months ago and you're calling TREB's people fcking rtarded?

Seriously?

FYI - TREB conducted this for governmental agencies.

Seriously stupid! some people don't think before they type.
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3788 upvotes
Thornhill
flafson wrote: Even if you're foreign buyer, why would you list your address out of Canada? Just put it as an address of a local relative. It's just a guess but I would assume that's what most people do.
That's probably true but with the changes requiring the buyer to provide the property's usage and their residency on title along with the CRA requirement to report sales and the purchases, the pool willing to place a property in their name as a principal residence for someone else is diminished. It's not a perfect solution but it does work for some.

Still, foreign ownership is not as prevalent as many want to believe. Foreign buyers of Toronto property is miniscule and found mostly in the upper end of prices that 95% of buyers can''t afford anyway. They are more prevalent in York Region and to a smaller extent in Brampton. I said so weeks ago and I believe the stats bear it out, it is York Region and Brampton that will see the effects of the FB tax.
Deal Addict
Aug 19, 2011
4218 posts
3148 upvotes
Markham
flafson wrote: Even if you're foreign buyer, why would you list your address out of Canada? Just put it as an address of a local relative. It's just a guess but I would assume that's what most people do.
Exactly.
Sr. Member
Apr 24, 2013
579 posts
288 upvotes
Toronto
licenced wrote: So while prices within the GTA have been going nuts since 2008, you're presuming that the foregners didn't start buying here until 6 months ago and you're calling TREB's people fcking rtarded?

Seriously?

FYI - TREB conducted this for governmental agencies.

Seriously stupid! some people don't think before they type.
Prices have been steadily increasing in a healthy 4 to 10% per year since 2008. And in end of 2016 and 2017 they jumped 30%. Do you think it is just a coincidence that a few months earlier Vancouver added the FBT?
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[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3788 upvotes
Thornhill
john5170 wrote: Prices have been steadily increasing in a healthy 4 to 10% per year since 2008. And in end of 2016 and 2017 they jumped 30%. Do you think it is just a coincidence that a few months earlier Vancouver added the FBT?
No! I don't think it is just coincidence. I think blaming foreign buyers is the hair-brained, unsubstantiated claims of the ill-informed. One-third of whom are looking for a scapegoat as to why they can't afford to buy a product they just plain can't afford to buy, one-third who have no real idea as to what is transpiring in the trenches and the other one-third who just want to parrot and propagate the racist crap and conspiracy theories they read and want to believe.

I work in this industry day in and day out specializing in the only two regions within the GTA that drives the entire market - Toronto and York Region for the seasoned owner, seller and investor. Additionally, I not only get to look at the properties trading on a daily basis within TREB's MLS I analyze that information 7 ways to sundown in order for my clients, and even once in awhile for those in RFD who ask nicely, to have the best information anyone can give them in order to make an informed decision they need to make and not second guess.

I get to actually make decisions based on sellers and buyers, their residency, work, place of work, as opposed to deciding what they are because of the slant of their eyes or colour of their skin as opposed to the declarations of the looky-loos who peered through their curtains at the visitors to the house for sale next door. I also get to see the frequency of sales, the chain of ownership, the names of their Realtors and the people I choose to represent and often the stories of the persons on the other side of my clients - all of which gives me far more information than some person who prefers to think the Canadian real estate market is beyond their grasp because foreigners steal it from them.

I am informed, very well informed! more so than the below which is at your fingertips

Average price changes YoY for April since 2008

2009 385641 -3.2
2010 437600 13.47 ... +16%
2011 477407 9.1 ...... -4%
2012 517556 8.4..... -.6%
2013 526335 1.7 ... -6.7%
2014 577898 9.8 .. +8.1%
2015 635932 10.0.. +.2%
2016 739082 16.2.. +6.2%
2017 920791 24.5 . +8.2%


Change from December 2016 YTD average to April's average - 26%
Change fro December 2016 YTD average to April's YTD average - 21.7%

Yet, you are not
Prices have been steadily increasing in a healthy 4 to 10% per year since 2008. And in end of 2016 and 2017 they jumped 30%. Pfft!
Why not?
Sr. Member
Apr 24, 2013
579 posts
288 upvotes
Toronto
licenced wrote: No! I don't think it is just coincidence. I think blaming foreign buyers is the hair-brained, unsubstantiated claims of the ill-informed. One-third of whom are looking for a scapegoat as to why they can't afford to buy a product they just plain can't afford to buy, one-third who have no real idea as to what is transpiring in the trenches and the other one-third who just want to parrot and propagate the racist crap and conspiracy theories they read and want to believe.

I work in this industry day in and day out specializing in the only two regions within the GTA that drives the entire market - Toronto and York Region for the seasoned owner, seller and investor. Additionally, I not only get to look at the properties trading on a daily basis within TREB's MLS I analyze that information 7 ways to sundown in order for my clients, and even once in awhile for those in RFD who ask nicely, to have the best information anyone can give them in order to make an informed decision they need to make and not second guess.

I get to actually make decisions based on sellers and buyers, their residency, work, place of work, as opposed to deciding what they are because of the slant of their eyes or colour of their skin as opposed to the declarations of the looky-loos who peered through their curtains at the visitors to the house for sale next door. I also get to see the frequency of sales, the chain of ownership, the names of their Realtors and the people I choose to represent and often the stories of the persons on the other side of my clients - all of which gives me far more information than some person who prefers to think the Canadian real estate market is beyond their grasp because foreigners steal it from them.

I am informed, very well informed! more so than the below which is at your fingertips

Average price changes YoY for April since 2008

2009 385641 -3.2
2010 437600 13.47 ... +16%
2011 477407 9.1 ...... -4%
2012 517556 8.4..... -.6%
2013 526335 1.7 ... -6.7%
2014 577898 9.8 .. +8.1%
2015 635932 10.0.. +.2%
2016 739082 16.2.. +6.2%
2017 920791 24.5 . +8.2%


Change from December 2016 YTD average to April's average - 26%
Change fro December 2016 YTD average to April's YTD average - 21.7%

Yet, you are not Why not?


Sorry so I do not understand, u agree with me that the Foreign investors moved from Vancouver to buy real estate in Toronto? or u disagree with me?

Because u summarized my points but I am not really getting what u want to say.
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Sr. Member
Apr 24, 2013
579 posts
288 upvotes
Toronto
My main point is: Foregin buyers in TO are much higher in the past 6 months, comparing to average since 2008. So TREB research saying "1% are foreign buyers since 2008" is completely irrelevant.
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[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3788 upvotes
Thornhill
john5170 wrote: My main point is: Foregin buyers in TO are much higher in the past 6 months, comparing to average since 2008. So TREB research saying "1% are foreign buyers since 2008" is completely irrelevant.
Except that your main point is just your opinion, your desire, your want.

It has no data to back that statement.

Treb's report does.
Sr. Member
Apr 24, 2013
579 posts
288 upvotes
Toronto
licenced wrote: Except that your main point is just your opinion, your desire, your want.

It has no data to back that statement.

Treb's report does.
Yes, do not have data.

But that is why I said TREB should of gotten the stats for the past 6 moths rather then tha whole 9 years. That would of been more ralavant. Hence, I called them stupid.

My opionon is very strong and valid though, and I think it is the true cuz for the risnng prices in the past couple of months. So the FBT should correct he mrket soon.
I got Fido and Public Mobile. [removed solicitation] ????
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 13, 2016
4214 posts
3704 upvotes
I still don't understand all this hate against foreign buyers.

I am simply perplexed that most people would like to see foreigners put their money in another country.

If I bought a condo in another country and saw this much crap posted on a forum that is supposedly "Canadian" I would pack my bags and leave.

Canadian economy is in really, really bad shape because the government is simply too daft to see beyond cyclical trends. I am surprised people actually want to live here..... the weather is terrible. You should welcome every foreign buyer with open arms and roll out the red carpet for them and thank the lord they are not investing ALL of their money south of the border.

Unbelievable.
Newbie
May 2, 2017
92 posts
70 upvotes
Report claims "2.6% foreign buyers in the first four months of 2017" you need to read it again
Newbie
May 2, 2017
92 posts
70 upvotes
2.6% foreign buyers in the first four month of 2017. Ok? Check the report
Newbie
Oct 3, 2015
61 posts
26 upvotes
Gormley, ON
john5170 wrote: Yes, do not have data.

But that is why I said TREB should of gotten the stats for the past 6 moths rather then tha whole 9 years. That would of been more relavant. Hence, I called them stupid.

My opinion is very strong and valid though, and I think it is the true cuz for the rising prices in the past couple of months. So the FBT should correct the market soon.

So let me help you out. "the average share of foreign buyers in the GGH...2.6 per cent for the January through April period in 2017."

That was posted in the OP if you cared. I also fixed your spelling mistakes. Hence, I called them stupid. is ironic considering you can't really spell or read. TREB will of course spin data in a way that would benefit the market. However from the OP, the information you said they did not include is there.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 5, 2009
5740 posts
3570 upvotes
BiegeToyota wrote: I still don't understand all this hate against foreign buyers.

I am simply perplexed that most people would like to see foreigners put their money in another country.

If I bought a condo in another country and saw this much crap posted on a forum that is supposedly "Canadian" I would pack my bags and leave.

Canadian economy is in really, really bad shape because the government is simply too daft to see beyond cyclical trends. I am surprised people actually want to live here..... the weather is terrible. You should welcome every foreign buyer with open arms and roll out the red carpet for them and thank the lord they are not investing ALL of their money south of the border.

Unbelievable.
How does it benefit Canadians in any way shape or form if a foreign buyer buys up single family homes here for no other reason that to park money. That's not an "investment" in Canada. Why would we roll out a red carpet for that?
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3788 upvotes
Thornhill
john5170 wrote: Yes, do not have data.

But that is why I said TREB should of gotten the stats for the past 6 moths rather then tha whole 9 years. That would of been more ralavant. Hence, I called them stupid.
Hence why I call your pov stupid as it is only relevant if you believe and can prove that foreigners only started buying in Toronto once B.C imposed the FB tax. Especially since people have been crying the blues now for years about foreign buyers stealing their right to buy affordable property within the GTA from under their noses.

You folks can't have it any way you choose so as to create false comparisons. So decide already...
did the market climb over the course of the last 9 years because of resident fervor or did it only get out of reach because
foreign buyers, locked out of B.C 6 months ago, made it impossible to compete?
Before you answer without thought you might want to know that in Toronto:

177 properties sold for more than $3 million in April 2017, that's 38 more than April 2016

Have you any idea what 38 more properties at $3 million plus each which accounts for almost half the increase of sold properties, contributes to the average?

And we're only talking about the upper tier in one Region where few buyers can compete but you'd have us believe that foreigners, with money, are the problem for the 50+ per cent
of buyers purchasing at the bottom.

This idea that foreign buyers ruining the market is so absurd it can be seen in preposterous claims like the RFDer who says s/he sees foreign buyers driving around n their Bentleys and other high end cars. Yes really, That some foreign looking dude is driving a Bentley means he or her/his teenaged kid parks it in his $600,000 condo that he visits once a year because of course s/he can't be a thriving Canadian resident, we have no such thing or they can't be a criminal living high off the hog of illicit dealings.

The stupidity of those who blame foreigners for the market is not only real it is

well, stupid!

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