If you buy vgro for a thousand years Vancouver homes will still be out of reach.
Trudeau planning to tax gains on personal residence?
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- SCORE-57
- zakarydoks
- Deal Fanatic
- Jan 14, 2009
- 5886 posts
- 4816 upvotes
- Vancouver, BC
- Toukolou
- Deal Fanatic
- Dec 4, 2009
- 9335 posts
- 5636 upvotes
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/larges ... nt=related
This is why many people that have a clue are so put out with the thought of another govnt tax scheme. It is madness.
This is why many people that have a clue are so put out with the thought of another govnt tax scheme. It is madness.
"I'm a bit upset. I've been grab by the back without any alert and lubrification"
Lucky
Lucky
- taxrage [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Jan 15, 2017
- 2365 posts
- 1755 upvotes
That explains an aversion to taxation, in general, not why there is something special about that $1.5M on your PR that should insulate it from being taxed.
With the recent rise in interest rates, the window for taxing those extraordinary gains may have now closed.
- Toukolou
- Deal Fanatic
- Dec 4, 2009
- 9335 posts
- 5636 upvotes
Lol, what does that even mean?!? A tax is a tax is a tax. Who cares where it's levied?!
How bout the frittered away $27+billion recently revealed?
I concede, you're right, the govnt are entitled to any and all sources of revenue to dole out/piss away as they see fit.
There's no shortage of useful idiots that empower the govnt to make these kinds of decisions, smh...
"I'm a bit upset. I've been grab by the back without any alert and lubrification"
Lucky
Lucky
- taxrage [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Jan 15, 2017
- 2365 posts
- 1755 upvotes
I care. My wages are taxed. Your wages are taxed. Students have their waitressing/bartending tips taxed.
Why does the person who bought a $2M home in Richmond Hill in 2017 and sold it for $4M not have to pay tax on that $2M gain?
I think you're suggesting that taxpayers circle the wagons around personal residences because this just represents an expansion of the tax base, but the following are not the same argument:
- Whether the gain on a PR should be treated just as any other capital gain
- Whether more tax revenue should go to the government
I think it's inconsistent/unfair to tax the $100 in tips earned by a teenager at a part-time waitressing gig while the homeowner pockets $2M tax-free.
I am not arguing that the government needs more tax revenue. I'm happy to see any new revenue from the sale of a PR be offset by a reduction in other taxes.
Last edited by taxrage on Dec 9th, 2022 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Gungnir
- Deal Addict
- Oct 21, 2014
- 1939 posts
- 2938 upvotes
- Burlington, ON
I sold my house in 2017 and made a ton of money from it and bought another one, I see nothing wrong with the pr exemption.
- Toukolou
- Deal Fanatic
- Dec 4, 2009
- 9335 posts
- 5636 upvotes
No, taxpayers should circle the wagons around any and all massive tax grabs. Period.taxrage wrote: ↑ I care. My wages are taxed. Your wages are taxed. Students have their waitressing/bartending tips taxed.
Why does the person who bought a $2M home in Richmond Hill in 2017 and sold it for $4M not have to pay tax on that $2M gain?
I think you're suggesting that taxpayers circle the wagons around personal residences because this just represents an expansion of the tax base, but the following are not the same argument:I think it's inconsistent/unfair to tax the $100 in tips earned by a teenager at a part-time waitressing gig while the homeowner pockets $2M tax-free.
- Whether the gain on a PR should be treated just as any other capital gain
- Whether more tax revenue should go to the government
Personal residence gains were never taxed, you're suggesting they should be. That is a massive tax grab.
Income taxes were supposed to be a temporary thing, here we are. It's never enough, ever. Doesn't matter the source.
"I'm a bit upset. I've been grab by the back without any alert and lubrification"
Lucky
Lucky
- taxrage [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Jan 15, 2017
- 2365 posts
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Well, of course. It's called personal self-interest. I'm sitting on a multiple 6-figure gain on my PR. I probably want to keep that gain tax-free as well. Ditto for every politician.
All I'm saying is that nowhere does it say that the gain on a PR is a special type of capital gain. Well, okay, the ITA says that it is, but that's all. There is no underlying justification for this special treatment. If such justification exists, let's see it. The last time this was examined was the Carter Royal Commission on Taxation in the 1960s.
This issue resurfaced in recent years as a result of huge capital gains on PRs courtesy of rock-bottom interest rates and expansion of the money supply. If you were a homeowner, you benefited from unlimited, tax-free capital gains on your PR. Renters had to be content with $6K/yr TFSA contribution limits. Maybe they lucked out and earned $100K tax-free on their TFSAs...although I suspect few renters did.
Do I expect anything to change w.r.t. to the PR exemption? Not really, especially now that the huge run-up in home prices appears to be over. The government can't really start calculating gains retroactively. So, your multi-million dollar capital gain on a PR appears to have dodged the taxman's bullet.
- taxrage [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Jan 15, 2017
- 2365 posts
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Is it? If there was a $1M exemption, would you (or 80% of Canadians) pay $0.01 in additional tax?
I'm just saying it is inherently unfair to have unlimited tax-free capital gains on a PR when the waitress who just made $100 in tips has to pay 25-30%.
- Toukolou
- Deal Fanatic
- Dec 4, 2009
- 9335 posts
- 5636 upvotes
White flag.
As I mentioned before, there is no shortage of people that endorse ever greater taxation with the idea that govn't will make life "better" for everyone.
I wonder though, once this tax no longer provides the revenue the govn't "needs", what's next? Because it's never enough.
"I'm a bit upset. I've been grab by the back without any alert and lubrification"
Lucky
Lucky
- Gungnir
- Deal Addict
- Oct 21, 2014
- 1939 posts
- 2938 upvotes
- Burlington, ON
Honestly yeah it was sooooo good. PR Exemption comes highly recommended from me. What's stopping you from doing the same? After you collect your tax free gain you can rename your account to taxactuallyitsok.
Really? You can't see why there would be a difference between a home where you raise your family and a stock portfolio? Think harder, much harder. If you still don't get it here's a hint, PR exemption predates the housing madness that has taken place over the last couple of decades.taxrage wrote: ↑ All I'm saying is that nowhere does it say that the gain on a PR is a special type of capital gain. Well, okay, the ITA says that it is, but that's all. There is no underlying justification for this special treatment. If such justification exists, let's see it. The last time this was examined was the Carter Royal Commission on Taxation in the 1960s.
These are behavioral problems. Central banks did what they did based on the what the "best economists" in the world thought they should do at the time and in a few years we'll be discussing the mistake they're making right now overcorrecting for the previous mistake they made. The real question is why did most of the developed world make the same error in their application of their own brand of economics. I'll refrain from sharing my thoughts on economics as a field lest this post find disfavor among the forum moderators.taxrage wrote: ↑ This issue resurfaced in recent years as a result of huge capital gains on PRs courtesy of rock-bottom interest rates and expansion of the money supply. If you were a homeowner, you benefited from unlimited, tax-free capital gains on your PR. Renters had to be content with $6K/yr TFSA contribution limits. Maybe they lucked out and earned $100K tax-free on their TFSAs...although I suspect few renters did.
As for individuals not getting the most from their TFSA, if they had done something as simple as investing systemically in the S&P and maxing the TFSA they would be far above your 100k. There are three prevalent problems investors seem to face these days:
1) They didn't
2) They gambled in 3x directional bull leveraged daily NFT OMGLOL shares instead of actually investing.
3) Someone said something on CNBC that made them sad, so so sad. Therefore give their assets away for next to nothing and then wonder why they got nothing in their accounts.
Taxing individual homeowners isn't going to solve behavioral problems.
Once a fool has decided to be a fool there is no tax policy to help them.taxrage wrote: ↑ Do I expect anything to change w.r.t. to the PR exemption? Not really, especially now that the huge run-up in home prices appears to be over. The government can't really start calculating gains retroactively. So, your multi-million dollar capital gain on a PR appears to have dodged the taxman's bullet.
If renters decide to invest poorly then there is nothing that can be done for them. If central banks decide to keep careening from way too loose to way to tight in six months there is nothing that can be done for them either.
- taxrage [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Jan 15, 2017
- 2365 posts
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We have a plethora of taxes/tax policies, with few stated objectives.Toukolou wrote: ↑ White flag.
As I mentioned before, there is no shortage of people that endorse ever greater taxation with the idea that govn't will make life "better" for everyone.
I wonder though, once this tax no longer provides the revenue the govn't "needs", what's next? Because it's never enough.
The entire system needs an overhaul.
- LordOfTheManor
- Deal Addict
- Apr 30, 2021
- 3435 posts
- 4517 upvotes
Liberals will sell this as being able to “claim a loss” because houses will go down in value over the next 5 years. It will be tax deductible against full income, not just capital gains! (gains will be taxed as income in future)
It will be part of the Helping the Middle Class and those Working Hard to Join It™ package.
Sunny Ways!
It will be part of the Helping the Middle Class and those Working Hard to Join It™ package.
Sunny Ways!
- Toukolou
- Deal Fanatic
- Dec 4, 2009
- 9335 posts
- 5636 upvotes
What did I say earlier...no shortage of useful idiots....LordOfTheManor wrote: ↑ Liberals will sell this as being able to “claim a loss” because houses will go down in value over the next 5 years. It will be tax deductible against full income, not just capital gains! (gains will be taxed as income in future)
It will be part of the Helping the Middle Class and those Working Hard to Join It™ package.
Sunny Ways!
"I'm a bit upset. I've been grab by the back without any alert and lubrification"
Lucky
Lucky
- LordOfTheManor
- Deal Addict
- Apr 30, 2021
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- JayLove06
- Deal Expert
- Feb 29, 2008
- 21738 posts
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- Tarrana & The Ri…
This is why people like me say no to more taxes. It’s never enough and the money is literally nuked.Toukolou wrote: ↑ White flag.
As I mentioned before, there is no shortage of people that endorse ever greater taxation with the idea that govn't will make life "better" for everyone.
I wonder though, once this tax no longer provides the revenue the govn't "needs", what's next? Because it's never enough.
- db9514022
- Jr. Member
- Sep 7, 2015
- 150 posts
- 117 upvotes
- Ottawa, ON
This might have been brought up, but for those actually advocating for taxing capital gains of principal residences, how would this work?
The house I bought for 1M is now worth 2M. If I need to move, selling and buying an equivalent house because, well, that's the market, would be almost impossible because of the tax hit on the sell. Am I missing something?
The house I bought for 1M is now worth 2M. If I need to move, selling and buying an equivalent house because, well, that's the market, would be almost impossible because of the tax hit on the sell. Am I missing something?
- taxrage [OP]
- Deal Addict
- Jan 15, 2017
- 2365 posts
- 1755 upvotes
I would imagine that there would be a deferral plus an exemption.db9514022 wrote: ↑ This might have been brought up, but for those actually advocating for taxing capital gains of principal residences, how would this work?
The house I bought for 1M is now worth 2M. If I need to move, selling and buying an equivalent house because, well, that's the market, would be almost impossible because of the tax hit on the sell. Am I missing something?
Your $1M house would have an acquisition cost (AC) of $1M, maybe higher with upgrades. Several possible treatments of the sale of that house now worth $2M:
- You don't purchase another home within 6-12 months (maybe retiring etc.). Your gain is $1M. You would be taxed on $2M - AC - exemption. If there is a $500K exemption, you'd be taxed on $2M - $1M - $500K = $500K. 50% of capital gains are taxable, so you'd add $250K to your income that year.
- You purchase a more expensive home within 6-12 months. AC remains $1M. Capital gain is deferred since you plowed all the equity into a more expensive home. Life goes on.
- You purchase a less expensive home within 6-12 months, e.g. $1.5M. You have a $500K gain. If there is a $500K exemption you've just used it up but owe no tax. Your PR exemption adjusts to $0 ($500K - $500K). The AC for your new home would either be adjusted to $1.5M or CRA would create a $500K offsetting account balance which you can subtract from any gain realized when you sell the 2nd home.
- blackhatt
- Deal Addict
- Sep 27, 2008
- 1015 posts
- 1234 upvotes
He quite literally said that he’d be happy if there were a reduction in taxation somewhere else to keep this revenue neutral… it’s about fairness not revenue, but you’re too inflamed to realize that.Toukolou wrote: ↑ White flag.
As I mentioned before, there is no shortage of people that endorse ever greater taxation with the idea that govn't will make life "better" for everyone.
I wonder though, once this tax no longer provides the revenue the govn't "needs", what's next? Because it's never enough.
- budwizestest
- Deal Addict
- Oct 14, 2010
- 1292 posts
- 1787 upvotes
- Toronto
Your talent is being wasted on RFD.taxrage wrote: ↑ I would imagine that there would be a deferral plus an exemption.
Your $1M house would have an acquisition cost (AC) of $1M, maybe higher with upgrades. Several possible treatments of the sale of that house now worth $2M:
- You don't purchase another home within 6-12 months (maybe retiring etc.). Your gain is $1M. You would be taxed on $2M - AC - exemption. If there is a $500K exemption, you'd be taxed on $2M - $1M - $500K = $500K. 50% of capital gains are taxable, so you'd add $250K to your income that year.
- You purchase a more expensive home within 6-12 months. AC remains $1M. Capital gain is deferred since you plowed all the equity into a more expensive home. Life goes on.
- You purchase a less expensive home within 6-12 months, e.g. $1.5M. You have a $500K gain. If there is a $500K exemption you've just used it up but owe no tax. Your PR exemption adjusts to $0 ($500K - $500K). The AC for your new home would either be adjusted to $1.5M or CRA would create a $500K offsetting account balance which you can subtract from any gain realized when you sell the 2nd home.
JT or Jagmeey or PP needs to onboard you.