Trying to sell a car….

Master2031 wrote: ↑ Hello all

My father passed away and left my mom with an extra car that she doesn’t need. Unfortunately he didn’t have a will .

The car is under both names.

We are trying to sell it but service Ontario is saying we need to get a executor/trustee and a lawyer with a retainer fee of 3k to transfer sole ownership to my mom. And I guess to take it to court to present it to a judge ?
The car itself is probably only going to fetch 2k.

Is there not an easier/more cost effective way of doing this ?

Thoughts ?

It would appear that your mother as the wife of your father should have a right of survivorship. Basically, your mother would inherit everything of your father’s.

Since the issue of the car is provincially regulated, there may be variations from province to province. It should be a matter of completing some basic paperwork.

Why would you need to hire a lawyer on a retainer for a simple transaction?

Do some research.

Since your mom was co-owner i do wonder if that is accurate.
You would benefit from speaking with a lawyer, many offer a free initial consultation.
Also consider the rest of the estate, bank accounts, property and so forth. Don't just take Service Ontario at their word here.

Also your mom should write a will today. Dying intestate is a headache for the family.
Start with a holographic will if you must then find a lawyer to write the actual will soon.
Maybe you can find someone who can help with the estate and write the will, combination discount?

starchoice wrote: ↑ It would appear that your mother as the wife of your father should have a right of survivorship. Basically, your mother would inherit everything of your father’s.

Since the issue of the car is provincially regulated, there may be variations from province to province. It should be a matter of completing some basic paperwork.

Why would you need to hire a lawyer on a retainer for a simple transaction?

Do some research.

I did do research. I phoned up service Ontario and they told me I need to have an executor.

I also phoned up a lawyer who said I have to present this info/forms infront of a judge and that I would need a minimum 3K retainer fee.

Thanks for incredible feedback (sarcasm)

Quentin5 wrote: ↑ Since your mom was co-owner i do wonder if that is accurate.
You would benefit from speaking with a lawyer, many offer a free initial consultation.
Also consider the rest of the estate, bank accounts, property and so forth. Don't just take Service Ontario at their word here.

Also your mom should write a will today. Dying intestate is a headache for the family.
Start with a holographic will if you must then find a lawyer to write the actual will soon.
Maybe you can find someone who can help with the estate and write the will, combination discount?

Thank you for your feedback ( seriously).

I did already complete an online will for my mom , just need witnesses to sign it.

Master2031 wrote: ↑ Thank you for your feedback ( seriously).

I did already complete an online will for my mom , just need witnesses to sign it.

I would spend the money and get it done properly, if the cheap one does not hold up in court you could be right back where you are now. Worse in fact since its the second parent and things are not moving laterally. Don't cheap out here.

BTW i saw this recently, but don't take it as legal advice:
https://notalwaysright.com/take-it-to-y ... ve/237507/

Quentin5 wrote: ↑ I would spend the money and get it done properly, if the cheap one does not hold up in court you could be right back where you are now. Worse in fact since its the second parent and things are not moving laterally. Don't cheap out here.

I completed one through legalwill.ca but will look into a lawyer. Thanks.

This article from CBC mentions that a letter from a lawyer stating that your Mom is beneficiary may work. I would verify that with the Ministry of Transportation before I paid for the letter.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/g ... -1.4811843

Go speak to a lawyer. Eventually you will need to for dealing with bank and property.
It costs money but it will save your headache and time.

Master2031 wrote: ↑ ....
The car itself is probably only going to fetch 2k.

Is there not an easier/more cost effective way of doing this ?

Given that the car is not worth much, the most cost effective way would be to:

- wait until you or your mother has been granted administration of the estate (may take several months)
- Service Ontario would then be able to allow the registration to be transferred to a buyer with just your mother's signature

Without a will you are going to have to do this anyway to wind up the estate, and is not onerous at all if your father's estate is straightforward.
Just a bit of form filling and relatively small expense of getting them notarized and court fees for lodging the documents.
(Relatively small cost compared to having a lawyer do it. Certainly applies in BC and I can't see Ontario being vastly different.)

What fraud? His dad signed a bill of sale before he passed because he knew it was going to be sold.

Master2031 wrote: ↑ I did do research. I phoned up service Ontario and they told me I need to have an executor.

I also phoned up a lawyer who said I have to present this info/forms infront of a judge and that I would need a minimum 3K retainer fee.

Thanks for incredible feedback (sarcasm)

No need.

Get a lawyer to sign off on right of survivorship ... simple.

I had the same situation ... no will when dad passed away.

Ownership changed to Mom ... lawyer signed off on it.

Then Mom transferred vehicle to my name.

Simple. No hassle.

Op first of all sorry for your loss.

PLEASE do NOT forge a signature to sell the car. If only because the car is part of your father's estate which MAY possibly have debts. Those debts must be paid out of any and ALL assets FIRST before anything else. Also just because everyone in the family agrees to turn a blind eye today it does NOT mean they will forever. Tension over money even when there is none can make them uncooperative later on.

Call more than one lawyer it sounds like that was that one's way of saying they wanted to settle the whole estate or they just were not interested. Ask the funeral home, your friends, and co workers if they know of any legal assistance groups you could get reasonably. Also while helping settle 3 estates in the past. I found the MPP's office to be extremely helpful in dealing with a couple of situations with government ministries when questions of common sense vs what the rules supposedly were came up. Turns out a couple of times the Ministry agents were totally WRONG and one call from the MMP's office pointed this out to them, saving the estate the expense of having to have a lawyer prove it to them. LOL.

Canuck2fan wrote: ↑ Op first of all sorry for your loss.

PLEASE do NOT forge a signature to sell the car. If only because the car is part of your father's estate which MAY possibly have debts. Those debts must be paid out of any and ALL assets FIRST before anything else. Also just because everyone in the family agrees to turn a blind eye today it does NOT mean they will forever. Tension over money even when there is none can make them uncooperative later on.

Call more than one lawyer it sounds like that was that one's way of saying they wanted to settle the whole estate or they just were not interested. Ask the funeral home, your friends, and co workers if they know of any legal assistance groups you could get reasonably. Also while helping settle 3 estates in the past. I found the MPP's office to be extremely helpful in dealing with a couple of situations with government ministries when questions of common sense vs what the rules supposedly were came up. Turns out a couple of times the Ministry agents were totally WRONG and one call from the MMP's office pointed this out to them, saving the estate the expense of having to have a lawyer prove it to them. LOL.

Very good advice, especially contacting the MPP.

I also agree do not forge a signature. There are a host of government agencies that are contacted as soon as a person passes. Deaths are registered with local municipalities and many funeral homes notify government departments.

Forging the signature has got to be the poorest advice I have read on RFD. I have dealt with my BIL's estate and have experienced first hand beneficiaries agreeing to something one day and two months later changing their minds.

skeet50 wrote: ↑ Very good advice, especially contacting the MPP.

I also agree do not forge a signature. There are a host of government agencies that are contacted as soon as a person passes. Deaths are resisted with local municipalities and many funeral homes notify government departments.

Forging the signature has got to be the poorest advice I have read on RFD. I have dealt with my BIL's estate and have experienced first hand beneficiaries agreeing to something one day and two months later changing their minds.

Hope it works out for your Mother and yourself.

When I called the MPP's office the first time, because my lawyer had told me what should happen. Since he assured me he had done so for many clients but I could save money and do it myself as executor. I was SHOCKED when the agent I talked to was sputtering utter nonsense, compared to what the lawyer had said.

When I called the MPP's office his staff had me come in. I surprised at how quickly they took my info, called the supervisor of the ministry department that dealt with those problems. They told them what the estate was up against, and faxed the info, while I was still there. The supervisor asked to speak to me personally and took care of the issue right away, I got the release information in the mail by the end of that week... Which was great because otherwise would have resulted in a couple of letters from our lawyer at about 200.00 each, to get the same result.

The second issue for a different estate the supervisor apparently informed the miscreant who LIED to me to call me, and straighten out that one. She was extremely frosty about being told to do it but could not say too much "as this call may be recorded LOL". Again it saved the estate having to use a lawyer to get done what was supposed to happen.