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TTC talks about suicide because not talking about it doesn't work.

  • Last Updated:
  • Sep 18th, 2019 1:14 pm
[OP]
Sr. Member
Feb 11, 2018
622 posts
585 upvotes

TTC talks about suicide because not talking about it doesn't work.

And if you think talking about suicide is inappropriate, the CBC and the TTC disagree with you.

From the CBC National News at 10pm on September 10, 2019

I linked the wrong video. This is the one I wanted to show, it is 13 minutes long versus the 2 minutes video of the previous link.

Last edited by TomLafinsky on Sep 15th, 2019 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Death on earth becomes life on another plane of existence. People don't understand life, how can they understand death?

Pride is man's greatest weakness.
14 replies
Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2013
2786 posts
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Woodbridge
UrbanPoet wrote: Isnt suicide contagion a reAl thing?
That is a matter of debate and there isn't sufficient research to come up with a definitive conclusion.

In my opinion, while talking about suicide may have some influence on people who are already staring over the edge, it also brings mental health into the conversation and might help countless others avoid getting to that point.

We need to change the way we look at suicide. If we see suicide as the end result of an often fatal disease rather than some weak and cowardly act by someone who was probably seeking attention then maybe we can see more significant improvements in mental health treatment.

This is a short and easy to follow video which I found was very eye-opening. I had always looked at ranking diseases based on how likely they were to kill you and how many years of life they'd take away; however, it didn't occur to me that there are many diseases that still take away years of meaningful and productive life without actually killing you.

Deal Fanatic
Sep 23, 2007
5061 posts
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I don't think TTC talking about it will change much. There isn't a single factor explanation to suicide. Some people do it because they have mental illness. Some people are just too bogged down by stresses of life. South Korea has a very competitive society and one of the highest suicide rates in the developed world. Humans will be humans. There are underlying issues in our society that need to be addressed. And even if addressed, it will still happen.

There are easy preventative measures like putting screen doors so that you can't jump in. The doors only open when train arrives. I guess with our lack of funding this is not in the works. South Korea have screen doors in most stations. There's no opportunity to jump, or to be pushed in.

Anyways, I agree with the OP this is probably a waste of effort. But I applaud them for trying. Just because a problem is hard, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. It doesn't sound like they are pouring millions to increase awareness so it's ok...so far.
Deal Expert
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Jan 27, 2004
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T.O. Lotto Captain
OntEdTchr wrote:
That is a matter of debate and there isn't sufficient research to come up with a definitive conclusion.

In my opinion, while talking about suicide may have some influence on people who are already staring over the edge, it also brings mental health into the conversation and might help countless others avoid getting to that point.

We need to change the way we look at suicide. If we see suicide as the end result of an often fatal disease rather than some weak and cowardly act by someone who was probably seeking attention then maybe we can see more significant improvements in mental health treatment.

This is a short and easy to follow video which I found was very eye-opening. I had always looked at ranking diseases based on how likely they were to kill you and how many years of life they'd take away; however, it didn't occur to me that there are many diseases that still take away years of meaningful and productive life without actually killing you.

TomLafinsky wrote: Would not talking about prostitution stopped prostitution? Would not talking about addictions stopped people from becoming an addict?

Would putting our head in the sand like an ostrich make the problem disappear???
I’m open to anything if it can solve problems.

I always thought (im no scientist but im open) that discussing mentall illness and depression openly and treating it like the common cold to normalize it would help.

If we could just say “yo im depressed ... i seriously want to jump off the balcony tonight after crying myself in the shower!”

“Ooooo damn bro. Me too!!!! You wanna go hit up the therapy sesh tonight?”

“Sounds like a plan lets do it!!!!”

“Best friends... forever :)

“You mean therapy and not jumping right...”

“Yah... duuuhhh”
Member
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Sep 10, 2007
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Toronto
I've witnessed subway suicide not once, but twice (in 1997 on the platform 10-15 feet away from me, and 2011 when I was on the train at the front).
It's horribly traumatizing for witnesses as well. I had sought counselling both times. I still get flashbacks many years later.
I can only imagine what it must have been like for the subway train operators. :(
pmb

"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt."
~ Henry J. Kaiser
Member
Jan 2, 2019
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Time to put up barricades just like they do in Asia subway.
Deal Guru
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Apr 4, 2001
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How do they know it doesn’t work? Talking about it could cause 50 suicides while not talking about it may only cause 10.

I guess we will find out. Good luck suicide contemplators of Toronto.
Deal Guru
Feb 7, 2017
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My POV is quite similar to that expressed here by @OntEdTchr

I would also like to point out how much in general one’s mental health is misunderstood by highlighting another RFEDers comment:
BananaHunter wrote: I don't think TTC talking about it will change much. There isn't a single factor explanation to suicide. Some people do it because they have mental illness. Some people are just too bogged down by stresses of life. South Korea has a very competitive society and one of the highest suicide rates in the developed world. Humans will be humans. There are underlying issues in our society that need to be addressed. And even if addressed, it will still happen.
FYI ... if one is so bogged down by the stresses in life that they consider suicide... then they actually have a mental health issue
By not being to figure out an alternative plan on their own to reduce / cope with those stresses

This is EXACTLY WHY mental health isn’t getting the attention it needs in society
@BananaHunter isn’t alone in their thinking

Cuz ...
When people say ... Mental Health
In reality what they are thinking is Mental Illness
Where some one has gone so far that something serious has occurred

In reality... what we need to focus on is the actual word Health
As in what one requires to stay healthy ... mentally
In the same way we all naturally understand how living Healthy
Relates to one staying physically well
Ie ... PREVENTIVE MEASURES

The stresses of life can weigh greatly upon people
Some people cope better than others
(Be it nature or nurture ... they are better equipped)
But no one should be side eyed if they don’t have the skills at hand
Cuz they never had them ... or due to strains, they cannot call upon them now

Just like staying truly healthy physically is a multi layered process
Genes - Eating Well - Exercise - Rest / Sleep - Prevention - and Professional Check Ups / Care
So is it with mental health
Genes - Switching Off - Rest / Sleep - Relaxation - Friendships - Prevention - and Professional Care

Imagine what the world would be like
If there was a stigma with being physically ill
If asking for help, or going to a Dr was a sign of weakness
Certainly our life expectancy would be a lot lower than the 80+ years many enjoy now

Gosh, we’d be back in the dark ages
With a life expectancy of less than 30

When we are more knowledgeable about mental health
In our own lives, and our loved ones
Then it will ripple out to us also understanding others possible issues
And therefore raise us ALL together as a society
Just like the knowledge of physical medicine has raised our overall quality of life / standard of living
Deal Fanatic
Apr 11, 2006
7547 posts
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Mississauga
PointsHubby wrote: My POV is quite similar to that expressed here by @OntEdTchr

I would also like to point out how much in general one’s mental health is misunderstood by highlighting another RFEDers comment:



FYI ... if one is so bogged down by the stresses in life that they consider suicide... then they actually have a mental health issue
By not being to figure out an alternative plan on their own to reduce / cope with those stresses

This is EXACTLY WHY mental health isn’t getting the attention it needs in society
@BananaHunter isn’t alone in their thinking

Cuz ...
When people say ... Mental Health
In reality what they are thinking is Mental Illness
Where some one has gone so far that something serious has occurred

In reality... what we need to focus on is the actual word Health
As in what one requires to stay healthy ... mentally
In the same way we all naturally understand how living Healthy
Relates to one staying physically well
Ie ... PREVENTIVE MEASURES

The stresses of life can weigh greatly upon people
Some people cope better than others
(Be it nature or nurture ... they are better equipped)
But no one should be side eyed if they don’t have the skills at hand
Cuz they never had them ... or due to strains, they cannot call upon them now

Just like staying truly healthy physically is a multi layered process
Genes - Eating Well - Exercise - Rest / Sleep - Prevention - and Professional Check Ups / Care
So is it with mental health
Genes - Switching Off - Rest / Sleep - Relaxation - Friendships - Prevention - and Professional Care

Imagine what the world would be like
If there was a stigma with being physically ill
If asking for help, or going to a Dr was a sign of weakness
Certainly our life expectancy would be a lot lower than the 80+ years many enjoy now

Gosh, we’d be back in the dark ages
With a life expectancy of less than 30

When we are more knowledgeable about mental health
In our own lives, and our loved ones
Then it will ripple out to us also understanding others possible issues
And therefore raise us ALL together as a society
Just like the knowledge of physical medicine has raised our overall quality of life / standard of living
+1

This was very well stated!
[OP]
Sr. Member
Feb 11, 2018
622 posts
585 upvotes
jintau wrote: Care to described the unpleasant?
I've been asking myself what is the best way to answer your question as so many other 'things' are involved? So I'll start with the basics.

You see, unfortunately, there is no such thing as death. All there is is the death of the physical body. As Pierre Teilhard de Chardin said so succinctly,"we are not physical beings currently having a spiritual experience, but spiritual beings currently having a physical experience".

What humans call 'death' is actually a transition from one form of incarnation into another. Don't think that as soon as you are on 'the other side' that you will be all-knowing. Your life will pretty much continue with some changes. Speaking of 'the other side', I have to use a language that people understand, that they can relate to. But in fact it is a lie, there is no other side. There is only ONE side. The thing is the human race is not very advanced and most people are unable to see someone if he/she isn't incarnated into a physical body. So they call it 'the other side'.

I have some abilities. They aren't that great but enough to allow me to go to where people are not incarnated into physical bodies. There are a few individuals who have abilities that I would define as 100 to 1000 times greater than mine. Basically what I do in concrete terms is I simply raise my consciousness to a much higher level.

Now the stuff you wanted to know. I have 'followed' three individuals who committed suicide. By 'following' I mean I went and had a look at where they were and what was happening right after they had left their bodies due to suicide. And it doesn't matter if the suicide happened the same day, a few days or weeks before I found out. Time doesn't quite exist the way people think it does. Time is nothing more than a container allowing events to unfold.

Of those three individuals: one was dear to me, one was a total stranger and one was a celebrity. One had ctb (ctb = catching the bus = suicide) the same day I went to have a look, one had ctb 3 days prior and the third had ctb months prior.

In all three cases they ended up at the same very unpleasant place. At the bottom of this post I will add something I found many years ago in a newsgroup and was written anonymously. It was not an article, it was an anonymous post (btw it is me who divided the text into paragraphs to make it easier to read as the guy wrote it in one single paragraph).

Pay attention where the writer talks about a dark place, where you have no notion of time, where you hear voices not knowing where they are from. Actually those voices are people who ctb and have not done 'their time' yet to pay back for the suicide. You won't be there forever. One day you will move on to where you should have gone had you died of your 'natural death', but it might seem forever to you when you are there.

There is a lot more details I could provide but I am hesitating to do so. Overall it was not a pleasant experience for me. I did it in two of the three cases because it was a learning experience for me. I don't go there anymore. Depending what you have done while on earth (also combined with Karma) will determine where (the level) you end up at.

EDIT: Ok I'll give you one more detail; one boy was 17 or 19 (don't remember) and when I had a look at him on 'the other side' he was in the same physical position he had left his body and he was crying and crying and crying no-stop. I think he was crying because he just found out that suicide had not solved his problems. He had made the headlines in the newspaper because of the circumstances of his death. In order for me to look up someone on 'the other side' I simply need something I can relate to, a point of reference.

The following is what the guy wrote.

I posted here for several months a few years ago, before wandering off into the woods to hang myself from a tree. And I actually did that and failed to ctb (obviously) but the experience was very strange.

I went down a popular hiking trail about 3-4 miles, then left the trail and went to a tree about 50 yards away that had fallen over and wedged itself on another tree. I waited until it was just starting to get dark, then tied my rope up and got really drunk and took a couple otc sleeping pills. When I was good and dizzy (and starting to feel ill) I climbed up a big rock, put the loop around my neck and cinched it down as tight as I could without discomfort. The knot was in front, right over my windpipe. Then I took a couple deep breaths and stepped off the rock. My face was forced skyward and there was a terrible burning pain in my neck and I couldn’t hear anything and everything seemed to go black and I started to panic and reached up to grab the rope.

Then I don’t know what happened but I found myself standing in a dark room. At least I guess it was a room, because I couldn’t see the walls or anything. There was nothing but darkness and a single light, like a spotlight, overhead. It was completely silent. I stood there wondering what had happened. Was I dead? Was I in a mental institution? Was I in jail? I couldn’t see a damn thing, so I didn’t want to walk around. I decided to just sit and wait for something to happen. As I sat I noticed that I wasn’t drunk or sick anymore. My neck didn’t hurt either.

I sat and sat and sat for who knows how long and then out of the silence I heard somebody say, “no yet”. I couldn’t tell where it came from or who said it. I leaped up and looked all around and called out, “who’s there?” and “who said that?” but there was no answer. Then I thought, holy crap, I’ve gone insane. That must be it. I was rescued and sent to a nuthouse, and now I’m crazy. As I was thinking this the voice said, “it’s not time.” Then a bunch of other voices started saying, “not yet” and “not time” over and over. The voices seemed to be all around me. I sat back down and covered my ears, but that didn’t help.

After a few minutes the voices all started saying, “go back” and “return” and when I heard that I look around again and noticed another light. It appeared to be way off in the distance. So I got up and started carefully walking toward it, tapping the floor with my toes as I went to make sure I didn’t trip over some unseen object or fall into a hole or something and made my way toward the distant light. As I went, the voices grew silent and the light changed colors from white to yellow to green and brown.

As I got near the light I saw that it was an image, a very large 3D image of a forest. Then I saw that it was the same forest, the same spot, where I had hanged myself, there was my backpack and there I was hanging from the fallen tree. I was completely motionless. My face was deep red (so I guess I kind of **** up the hanging a little bit, lol) but other than it looked like I was asleep so this was it. I was dead. Then I turned and looked back at the other light and the voices started up with, ”no” and “go back” again.

The afterlife sure wasn’t what I thought it would be. Was this hell or heaven? Where was the devil? Where was Jesus? What were those voices, angels or long-dead relatives or demons or what? I didn’t know what to do. What did they mean by “go back”? was I supposed to, like, climb back in to my corpse? I stood there starring at the forest scene for a while and then decided to try stepping into it, just to see what would happen. Maybe I would become a ghost, haunting the forest. Heh, that might be fun.

As soon as I stepped into the image I found myself on my back, starring up at sky. I could see clouds and tree branches and stuff. I tried to turn my head, but was met with stiffness and pain. I sort of propped myself up and looked around (twisting my torso) and saw that the rope was broken and I had fallen. I had also shit myself and pissed my pants, and I felt like I was going to throw up. I sort of dragged myself over to a tree and sat against it, pondering my experiences, and I guess eventually fell asleep because the next thing I knew it was day time and birds and stuff were making a racket.

I felt a little better. My neck still hurt like a ****. So I got up and cleaned myself up as best I could (I still had a pile of crap in my undies) and then I decided the thing to do next was hike out of here as I went worried about meeting somebody, because I knew I probably looked bad. But I figured it was early morning, because the sun was real low and there was still dew on the grass, so I thought maybe if I hurried I could get out before the day hikers arrived. The walk out seemed to go quickly, probably because I had a lot on my mind. The only “bad” thing was that I kept forgetting not to turn my head, because every time I did I got a stabbing pain.

Anyway after an hour or so I walked out into the parking lot and I was glad I hadn’t met anyone, but as soon as I cleared the last tree I saw a school bus painted dark green and some forest service trucks and an orange truck and about a dozen guys preparing for a long hike. As soon as they saw me one of them ran over and looked at something in his hand and said, “are you so-and-so (my name)?” and I said, uh yeah. And he goes, “we were coming looking for you, man!” and then he turned and yelled, “found him” to all the other guys, who were now staring. Turns out I had been reported missing because I was expected back the night before. These guys were the sheriff department’s search and rescue squad.

At this point you can probably guess the rest of the story. In a nutshell, they asked me 1000 questions (all the while looking at me the same way you might look at a dying mouse, with a combination of curiosity and disgust) and hauled me off to a hospital where my suicide attempt was exposed (my neck had a nasty rope burn and scratches and bruises almost all the way around it) and then I got to spend about a month in the state nuthouse with somebody peering in the little door-window every 10 minutes to see if I was trying to off myself again (even though there was really no way to do it in there) and endless bullshit about how I had made the wrong decision and how I could have gone blind or broken my spine and been paralyzed, blah, blah, blah. I knew they were just trying to scare me into not trying that again. I told them about my death experience, but they just seemed vaguely amused by it. Pricks. After that fun experience I had to stay with relatives who basically watched my every move for several months, and the **** hospitals called then times a day wanting me to pay $48,000 (which I didn’t have and still don’t).

So now here I sit, a few years later, pretty much back in the same spot as before. Only difference now is I have a judgment on my credit history (the hospital eventually sued and won) and somewhere out there is some asswipe debt collector waiting for me to get a job or something so he can take the money. Yay.

Death on earth becomes life on another plane of existence. People don't understand life, how can they understand death?

Pride is man's greatest weakness.
Deal Addict
Feb 4, 2018
1009 posts
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pmbpro wrote: I've witnessed subway suicide not once, but twice (in 1997 on the platform 10-15 feet away from me, and 2011 when I was on the train at the front).
It's horribly traumatizing for witnesses as well. I had sought counselling both times. I still get flashbacks many years later.
I can only imagine what it must have been like for the subway train operators. :(
Damn honestly I picture myself being in your shoes, and it's terrifying. The person offing themselves isn't the one that suffers, it's all the people around them, and worst of all their family.
Sr. Member
Jun 9, 2015
783 posts
626 upvotes
Toronto, ON
laziguy wrote: Time to put up barricades just like they do in Asia subway.
They've got people working full time watching each track... I'm not sure why they haven't used that money to put in those barricades. Makes too much sense, I guess.
Deal Fanatic
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Sep 6, 2002
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Vancouver
Lampsy wrote: They've got people working full time watching each track... I'm not sure why they haven't used that money to put in those barricades. Makes too much sense, I guess.
For those types of doors to work you generally need the train to stop in the same place every time which is only now becoming possible with automatic train control. It is still a very costly proposition and simply shifts the problems elsewhere

Sort of like when they put up the barricades on the blood danforrh viaduct. Yes it stops jumpers but it shifts the problem elsewhere

You still have heavy rail to worry about and don’t forget the places where the subway is above ground and there are nearby bridges.
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