Wheels and Tires

Tyrereview compares Michelin summer, all-season, all-weather, winter tires

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 10th, 2023 4:10 pm
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 6, 2003
19713 posts
13577 upvotes
Ottawa

Tyrereview compares Michelin summer, all-season, all-weather, winter tires

Test was done on snow and wet/dry pavement. The thing I was most interested in was how the Cross Climate 2 fared against the X-Ice.

As expected the winter tire is the best in pure snow grip, but it did horribly on regular pavement (dry or wet). The Cross Climate 2 was more like the all season on pavement but still did very well in winter in braking and lap times

This test shows everything is a compromise. If you want the best winter grip, you will lose horribly when the roads are clear....for example, the braking from 60 to zero was 40 feet longer on the winter tires.

One thing that was also interesting is the the X-Ice has the best rolling resistance with the CC2 the worse.

Anyway, watch the youtube and you can decide what is best for your usage patterns. For people living in metro areas, choosing an all-weather like the Cross Climate 2 might be a good compromise. You get capable winter tires but don't give up much when the roads are clearer. CC2 also has good treadlife. I bought the CC2 for our secondary car and was impressed driving it around last winter in Ottawa.




Of course, this may vary greatly with non-Michelin models. So YMMV
25 replies
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 7, 2016
2738 posts
1651 upvotes
Ontario
I was about to post this, thanks :)
Deal Addict
Jul 21, 2009
1676 posts
1424 upvotes
Toronto
Would the Cross Climate 2 tires qualify you for the winter tire insurance discount in Ontario? It seems to have the snowflake symbol on it.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 7, 2016
2738 posts
1651 upvotes
Ontario
submarine wrote: Would the Cross Climate 2 tires qualify you for the winter tire insurance discount in Ontario? It seems to have the snowflake symbol on it.
Yes, most places just look for the three-peak symbol. Ask your insurance company if you want to be certain.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 7, 2001
7994 posts
2226 upvotes
Alberta
3 peak mountain snowflake (3PMS) is no indication of an excellent winter tire...just means it is 10% better than all season tire. BfG AT T/A KO tires have the 3PMS, but r not very good on ice....not even passable.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 6, 2003
19713 posts
13577 upvotes
Ottawa
I believe this was discussed before and I don't think there is a universal answer for every insurance company.

Best to ask the insurer directly.

Transport Canada conflates the two, a winter tire has the Snowflake mountain symbol. https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transporta ... afety-tips
All Weather is just a marketing term, there is no standard about what is "all-weather"

It would be interesting if somebody was denied a claim because he used Allweather tires but claimed he used winter tires in his policy. I would like to see how that would settle out in court.
Please update your profile to include your city https://forums.redflagdeals.com/ucp.php?i=ucp_profile&mode=profile_info
Deal Expert
User avatar
Dec 23, 2003
18021 posts
7061 upvotes
Toronto
I own the Cross Climate 2 as my Spring to Fall tire and the Xice Snow for my winter tires on my 2012 Camry. My experience mirrors the video in that the Cross Climate 2 is not as good as a ultra high performance tire, but it a great all around tire.

The chart below is the best summary of the video. As the reviewer mentioned, the tire that has the straight line score means it is consistent in various areas and is the definition of an all season tire.

tire.jpg


This Tire Rack test, compares the Cross Climate 2 vs. Defender T+H vs Pilot Sport 4S and Pilot Sport All Season 4: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/te ... p?ttid=270
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 6, 2003
19713 posts
13577 upvotes
Ottawa
The million dollar question is: since a lot of people would rather buy one set of tires and not have the hassle of switching winter tires, are the All-weather tires good enough for our winters? It definitely depends on your usage and local conditions. In the case of the CC2, they hold their own against the top rated X-Ice Snow. All of the Michelin tires in this video are highly rated, maybe at the top of their respective classes.

I have a feeling that if they compared the CC2 against more middle rated winter tire, they would be trading blows more closely

Consequently other all-weather tires may not fare as well pitted directly against the X-Ice.

Probably the only caveat about owning all-weather tires is that: for half the year, you are wearing down the tread on clear roads, and deep tread depth is what determines a large part of the traction in the winter. Let's say that a tire lasts 4 years, for only the first year you are getting excellent winter traction, year two will give you good/acceptable traction, and by year three you may find the traction start to feel much more lacking. Ideally you should only drive in the winter with more than 4/32" tread.

With a winter tire, the tread does wear faster than all-seasons but you aren't wasting the deep tread when the weather is warm. That means you may have great traction for more winters. I only noticed my winter tires feeling worse after year 3 but still usable. By year 5 I felt they were shot.

Compromises, compromises.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Dec 23, 2003
18021 posts
7061 upvotes
Toronto
warpdrive wrote: The million dollar question is: since a lot of people would rather buy one set of tires and not have the hassle of switching winter tires, are the All-weather tires good enough for our winters? It definitely depends on your usage and local conditions. In the case of the CC2, they hold their own against the top rated X-Ice Snow. All of the Michelin tires in this video are highly rated, maybe at the top of their respective classes.

I have a feeling that if they compared the CC2 against more middle rated winter tire, they would be trading blows more closely

Consequently other all-weather tires may not fare as well pitted directly against the X-Ice.

Probably the only caveat about owning all-weather tires is that: for half the year, you are wearing down the tread on clear roads, and deep tread depth is what determines a large part of the traction in the winter. Let's say that a tire lasts 4 years, for only the first year you are getting excellent winter traction, year two will give you good/acceptable traction, and by year three you may find the traction start to feel much more lacking. Ideally you should only drive in the winter with more than 4/32" tread.

With a winter tire, the tread does wear faster than all-seasons but you aren't wasting the deep tread when the weather is warm. That means you may have great traction for more winters. I only noticed my winter tires feeling worse after year 3 but still usable. By year 5 I felt they were shot.

Compromises, compromises.
You raise good points. My take is that if you have mild winters with minimal snow/ice, the Cross Climate 2 are decent. Unfortunately, that is tough to find in Canada as even Vancouver/Victoria has weather events albeit not as severe as other parts of Canada. On the topic of tread depth, ideally, you should be starting the winter with a MIN of 5/32" so that there is enough bite in the tires for snow (as mentioned here: https://www.consumerreports.org/tires/m ... 082176624/). In most cases, that would mean that you would be changing the Cross Climate 2 every 3 years if you are using them year round based on 20K a year.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 6, 2003
19713 posts
13577 upvotes
Ottawa
I'm definitely going to see how I fare with my CC2 in Ottawa over the long term. Our crescent often doesn't get plowed quickly, and getting stuck is a thing when the snow is fresh.

I have a FWD sedan and switched from Nokians to the CC2. I made it a point to take the CC2 car out right after the heaviest snowfalls we had last year. No issues at all, high levels of grip from stop, very good lateral grip even when I deliberately tried to upset the car, very progressive and predictable. It felt every bit as good as my winter tires in messy weather. Probably on icy roads, I noticed the Nokians (on my other car) seemed to brake better in the same weather.

Luckily, the car isn't driven much in the summertime for long road trips and is not used commuting so I hope to get at least 3 winters of usable grip from the CC2. We'll see. So far, I'm a believer.
Please update your profile to include your city https://forums.redflagdeals.com/ucp.php?i=ucp_profile&mode=profile_info
Deal Addict
May 23, 2009
3681 posts
2388 upvotes
Mississauga
No doubt the CC2 is an awesome all round tire but dont take this Dry/wet test between the all weather and winter tire literary. He mentioned in this video that the Dry and Wet test was at 19 to 20°C. Totally outside the ideal operating temperature of the Winter tire and he has mentioned that temperature makes a big difference because of tire compounds in a few videos. In Ontario terms that similar to the average monthly temperature in April, May and October when hardly anyone has winter tires mounted for more than 2 weeks.

I really doubt we'll see near identical results if this wet/dry comparison was repeated on a winter plowed or dry/wet/slushy road at -20 to 7°C.
Member
Dec 1, 2017
259 posts
245 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Which would be the best option for a 2010 Maxima with strictly city driving in Toronto, roughly 10k km per year. My dad can only afford one set of tires so strictly winters isn’t an option.

Michelin CC2
Nokias WR G4

Or any other suggestion that wont break the bank
Deal Guru
Feb 4, 2015
10332 posts
6699 upvotes
Canada, Eh!!
SpaceJam416 wrote: Which would be the best option for a 2010 Maxima with strictly city driving in Toronto, roughly 10k km per year. My dad can only afford one set of tires so strictly winters isn’t an option.

Michelin CC2
Nokias WR G4

Or any other suggestion that wont break the bank
Either would be fine.

Also look at lower cost all weathers from Firestone and General and Kuhmo.
2022/3: BOC raised 10 times and MCAP raised its prime next day.
2017,2018: BOC raised rates 5 times and MCAP raised its prime next day each time.
2020: BOC dropped rates 3 times and MCAP waited to drop its prime to include all 3 drops.
Member
Dec 1, 2017
259 posts
245 upvotes
Toronto, ON
georvu wrote: Either would be fine.

Also look at lower cost all weathers from Firestone and General and Kuhmo.
Thanks!
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 6, 2003
19713 posts
13577 upvotes
Ottawa
bubuski wrote: No doubt the CC2 is an awesome all round tire but dont take this Dry/wet test between the all weather and winter tire literary. He mentioned in this video that the Dry and Wet test was at 19 to 20°C. Totally outside the ideal operating temperature of the Winter tire and he has mentioned that temperature makes a big difference because of tire compounds in a few videos. In Ontario terms that similar to the average monthly temperature in April, May and October when hardly anyone has winter tires mounted for more than 2 weeks.

I really doubt we'll see near identical results if this wet/dry comparison was repeated on a winter plowed or dry/wet/slushy road at -20 to 7°C.
Yes that is a good point.

I've noticed that all of the winter tires I've owned feel very squirmy on dry pavement, even in cool dry pavement. Their very aggressive tread blocks with lots of slits are very deformable and provide lots of cutting edges, coupled with the softest possible compound is not just optimized for hard pavement. The tread design and compound is optimized to bite snow and stick to ice. I would make a guess that even if they did the dry and wet tests at freezing, the winter tire would trail the others significantly when the roads are clear.

The video that compares the Continental All-season vs the Winter tires shows the difference. Here it is -5C, and the all-season still outdid the winter tire in handling.



**Video provides braking and handling numbers**
Sr. Member
Jan 13, 2007
689 posts
669 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
It's interesting because when all is said and done, the results are fairly in line with how most of us expected them to be. Tyre Reviews did a similar review back in 2019 between summer, all-season, winter and nordic tires (all-weather tires were not included in this test):




The host, Jonathan Benson, concluded the following (video timestamped at his conclusion):

  1. The 7° C switchover rule is a good rule.
  2. Summer tires are really good in dry conditions but loses a bit of performance, especially in wet conditions, below 7° C.
  3. All-season tires have a good mix of performance and handling, even in colder temperatures, and perform quite well in climates where there isn't an abundance of snow.
  4. Winter tires are highly recommended in more snowy climates where the roads will be snow-covered throughout the winter season.

Factoring in the newer Tyre Reviews video which includes the Michelin all-weather tire, I think it's clear that the all-weather tire offers the optimal balance and performance output across all weather conditions as compared to the other tires.
Last edited by woofster on Nov 29th, 2022 1:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 6, 2003
19713 posts
13577 upvotes
Ottawa
Yes, in the end, the question of what tires to get is very nuanced. You have to take in account:

- your driving style in winter and summer.
- how severe and cold the conditions get.
- whether the roads are cleared quickly. Do you get a lot of snow, black ice. Are you living in hilly areas?
- can you avoid driving in severe weather. Is your car the primary car?
- how easy it is to do seasonable swaps and store the tires. Are you keeping the car for the long term so you can average out the cost of having separate rims?
- what tier of tires are you getting.....there is a big difference between the best winter tires and the worst ones. Same with all-weathers.

there are probably more variables to consider I haven't listed.

When I bought my CC2, I was willing to give them a try and I was prepared to go back to winter tires if they weren't good. I.e. I would then use the CC2 as my summer tire and switch back to winters. Fortunately, I didn't have to resort to plan B as I'm happy with CC2 in winter use. If I did decide to go back to winters, given how well the CC2 works in wet non-winter roads, they are actually preferable to the all-seasons I had previously...period. I drove through heavy rainstorms and they were excellent.
Please update your profile to include your city https://forums.redflagdeals.com/ucp.php?i=ucp_profile&mode=profile_info
Deal Addict
May 23, 2009
3681 posts
2388 upvotes
Mississauga
warpdrive wrote: Yes that is a good point.

I've noticed that all of the winter tires I've owned feel very squirmy on dry pavement, even in cool dry pavement. Their very aggressive tread blocks with lots of slits are very deformable and provide lots of cutting edges, coupled with the softest possible compound is not just optimized for hard pavement. The tread design and compound is optimized to bite snow and stick to ice. I would make a guess that even if they did the dry and wet tests at freezing, the winter tire would trail the others significantly when the roads are clear.

The video that compares the Continental All-season vs the Winter tires shows the difference. Here it is -5C, and the all-season still outdid the winter tire in handling.



**Video provides braking and handling numbers**
Speed Academy @-15 degrees
Dry braking 100kph to 0kph is 11ft difference between all season and winter.

Tire reviews @20 degrees
Dry braking 80kph to 5kph is 35ft difference. More than 3 times longer and didn’t even come to a full stop.

I’d say this video reinforces my point. I didn’t say the winter tire will win but when tested in the right temperature conditions the graph that shows a drastic drop in performance of the winter tire won’t be as polarizing. Just makes the winter tire look much worse than in real life and is a point you highlighted in your first post about winter tires being horrible.

Yes I agree that winter tires generally feel more squirmy but that is a subjective feeling linked to their performance rather than being able to get the job done. As an example of this I will point to Jonathan’s explanation of lack of confidence in the All-weather vs the winter in the snow. Then the all-weather again vs the all-season on the track. It still does not make the all-weather tire a bad pick.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 6, 2003
19713 posts
13577 upvotes
Ottawa
bubuski wrote: I’d say this video reinforces my point. I didn’t say the winter tire will win but when tested in the right temperature conditions the graph that shows a drastic drop in performance of the winter tire won’t be as polarizing. Just makes the winter tire look much worse than in real life and is a point you highlighted in your first post about winter tires being horrible.
Yup, the discrepancy is lower for sure when the temp drops. I'd also say the DWS06 is considered a "high performance" all season (I highly recommend it if you are looking for an all-season tire and like a sporty feeling)

The squirmy feeling for a lot of winter tires is subjectively awful if you have a sporty car IMO. They make "high performance" winter tires that feel a lot better but then the winter performance takes a big hit. I tried out the Pilot Alpin line and the hit in winter grip was significant. It was the first set of tires I've ever returned.
Compromises!
Please update your profile to include your city https://forums.redflagdeals.com/ucp.php?i=ucp_profile&mode=profile_info

Top