Which undergrad business-related program would you choose?

Waterloo business....if you're going to go that route, don't do the math program - take the Arts program instead. Math is very difficult....lots of very difficult courses which really do nothing for your business abilities. You can take a easier business degree type program and go the CPA route if you want. Just make sure you take something with CO-OP.

Waterloo FARM - anything co-op at Waterloo is worth it and gives a leg up when you graduate. This would be my number One choice.

Rotman....horrible school life partially due to type of students and the campus which is so spread out. I find it will psych out sensitive kids...there's a lot of anxiety there I believe.

Laurier - used to hear they had a great MBA program but if you get into Waterloo FARM no need to look at Laurier.

gr8dlr wrote: ↑ Waterloo business....if you're going to go that route, don't do the math program - take the Arts program instead. Math is very difficult....lots of very difficult courses which really do nothing for your business abilities. You can take a easier business degree type program and go the CPA route if you want. Just make sure you take something with CO-OP.

Waterloo FARM - anything co-op at Waterloo is worth it and gives a leg up when you graduate. This would be my number One choice.

Rotman....horrible school life partially due to type of students and the campus which is so spread out. I find it will psych out sensitive kids...there's a lot of anxiety there I believe.

Laurier - used to hear they had a great MBA program but if you get into Waterloo FARM no need to look at Laurier.

+1

The real question is when she gets offers from Queens and Western Ivey. That will be a much tougher decision and at that point it will pretty much come down to cost/preference/community. All of my friends who have gone to Ivey, Queens, or Waterloo AFM/FARM have done really well for themselves.

Thanks both. I really appreciate your thoughts on this very important matter.

I was thinking UW FARM would be best too coming from someone who's been in audit for so long, lol. I think the co-op program is very important as I've been in the situation where I was being asked for Canadian experience when I didn't have any.

nx6288 wrote: ↑ +1

The real question is when she gets offers from Queens and Western Ivey. That will be a much tougher decision and at that point it will pretty much come down to cost/preference/community. All of my friends who have gone to Ivey, Queens, of Waterloo AFM/FARM have done really well for themselves.

I'd still choose Waterloo over Queens and Western because of the Co-op. Nothing like getting experience while you're in school. Many many times, graduates end up working for one of their co-op employers. Not bad making some $$ while you go school.

Is business the only route of interest? You might think I'm crazy, but I've noticed more and more successful people that have gone in to finance or managerial consulting actually have engineering backgrounds in their education.

ATrac wrote: ↑ Is business the only route of interest? You might think I'm crazy, but I've noticed more and more successful people that have gone in to finance or managerial consulting actually have engineering backgrounds in their education.

Yeah, tried to talk her into dentistry or med school to no avail. I was going to throw a free Tesla M3 as part of the deal. I didn't know tuition for dentistry was $200+k, lol.

I think that is what MBA is for. I did have a couple of classmates with engineering degrees who decided to do their MBA's. I think the quantitative discipline in Engineering helps a lot but the rigors of that kind of thinking you can always get elsewhere.

Who knows, maybe she will be the investment finance professional I always wanted to become.

alanbrenton wrote: ↑ Yeah, tried to talk her into dentistry or med school to no avail. I was going to throw a free Tesla M3 as part of the deal. I didn't know tuition for dentistry was $200+k, lol.

I think that is what MBA is for. I did have a couple of classmates with engineering degrees who decided to do their MBA's. I think the quantitative discipline in Engineering helps a lot but the rigors of that kind of thinking you can always get elsewhere.

Who knows, maybe she will be the investment finance professional I always wanted to become.

Vet doctor is the best IMO....with the number of dog owners out there, someone's gotta take care of them. Plus you're not subject to those Doctor fee schedules. Tuition is just as high though.

Business is OK degree...if you can find a job which is why Co-op is so important.

MBA's are almost dime a dozen these days and no guarantee to the good life. Not like the old days. If your employer will pay for you to do a Exec MBA, I'd take them up on it.

gr8dlr wrote: ↑ Vet doctor is the best IMO....with the number of dog owners out there, someone's gotta take care of them. Plus you're not subject to those Doctor fee schedules. Tuition is just as high though.

Business is OK degree...if you can find a job which is why Co-op is so important.

MBA's are almost dime a dozen these days and no guarantee to the good life. Not like the old days. If your employer will pay for you to do a Exec MBA, I'd take them up on it.

Vet is no good for animal lovers as they have to put some of these animals down for one reason or another. That is one reason she didn't want to go that route. I told her, if you hurt an animal unintentionally, you can bribe it with good food. Humans will recall.

Yeah, an acquaintance on RFD shared with me her sister graduated as a vet and got a $60k offer in the GTA, $70k in Vancouver and $100k in California. This was a little over a decade ago.

Thanks for reinforcing the importance of co-op. I was initially thinking, before she got most of the offers yesterday, how maybe my wife and i and our friends/bosses can pull a few strings for internship opportunities but that in itself isn't a guarantee though a decent alternative.


Do you think UW FARM is as good as the five-year dual degree program (Math UW / Business Laurier)? That we haven't heard back from since maybe the two universities have a say on whether to send an offer or rejection.

I'm actually surprised she got in. Only 125 students are accepted and that is also the figure (give and take) what I heard during the open house. Maybe she did decent on the Euclid Contest lol but she felt she didn't do all that great. Maybe a lot of applicants didn't bother participating in the Euclid contest.

http://www.electronicinfo.ca/programs/1273

alanbrenton wrote: ↑ Vet is no good for animal lovers as they have to put some of these animals down for one reason or another. That is one reason she didn't want to go that route. I told her, if you hurt an animal unintentionally, you can bribe it with good food. Humans will recall.

Yeah, an acquaintance on RFD shared with me her sister graduated as a vet and got a $60k offer in the GTA, $70k in Vancouver and $100k in California. This was a little over a decade ago.

Thanks for reinforcing the importance of co-op. I was initially thinking, before she got most of the offers yesterday, how maybe my wife and i and our friends/bosses can pull a few strings for internship opportunities but that in itself isn't a guarantee though a decent alternative.


Do you think UW FARM is as good as the five-year dual degree program (Math UW / Business Laurier)? That we haven't heard back from since maybe the two universities have a say on whether to send an offer or rejection.

I'm actually surprised she got in. Only 125 students are accepted and that is also the figure (give and take) what I heard during the open house. Maybe she did decent on the Euclid Contest lol but she felt she didn't do all that great. Maybe a lot of applicants didn't bother participating in the Euclid contest.

http://www.electronicinfo.ca/programs/1273

It is difficult when you have to put an animal down but vets know this is actually the humane thing to do. As a animal lover, you're actually doing your best to help animals. I know what you mean though, you have to be able to psych yourself to handle the emotions.

If financial analysis and risk management is a path she's interested in then choosing that UW FARM specialty gives her a big leg up and into that career path.... The problem is it's hard to know what you're interested in at that age. UW FARM is a very sought after program, she did well to get an offer.

I think my cousin's daughter was in that FARM program , she may have switched over to the AFM Acctg and Financial Mgmt.

Ivey is best if she is aiming for IB/MC, with Queen's commerce coming in 2nd. None of the other programs you listed are competitive enough for IB, except maybe the Math/BBA dual degree. Make sure she maintains a 3.5+/4.0 GPA.

So I went through reddit and checked out comments on the UWaterloo FARM program:
https://www.reddit.com/r/uwaterloo/sear ... rict_sr=on


This sounds true and my daughter has no intention of doing the CFM (Computational Financial Management):

The issue with FARM is that it's in the middle of two very competitive and qualified fields. On the financial analysis side, you'll be competing against Mathematical Finance and Double Degree students. On the Risk Management side, you'll be competing against Act Sci students. FARM may open many doors, but you won't go in depth in any of them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/uwaterloo/comm ... m_vs_farm/


Now, I just realized she did get into Business Administration (WLU) & BMath (UW) at Laurier, which is a blessing because I think she prefers the Business side over the Math side.
https://www.wlu.ca/programs/business-an ... index.html

That FARM program looks weird tbh. Risk management is opposite of revenue, which is generally the side you want to be on. None of the sample careers they posted are your traditional IB/MC roles. It says you will write the CFA exams, which will be competitive for portfolio analyst/portfolio manager type jobs. But I would stick to Math/BBA dual degree if she doesn't get into Western Ivey.

^ Thanks. You are probably right that the DD would be good if she doesn't get into QC or Ivey. I don't think she is interested in IB but who knows about MC (she does BS me from time to time, lol). I wrote (mainly for personal interest) and got the CFA charter and it didn't help land my an investment finance job lol so I know not to pursue a degree that will help you get a CFA.


https://www.reddit.com/r/uwaterloo/comm ... s_program/

There's a wide variety of jobs in finance, from almost purely business to very mathematical (quants, etc.). If you're looking for a more business style career, UW isn't the best place. If you're looking for more mathematical finance jobs, then mathematical finance would be your program of choice here.

Nonetheless, I'll break down the programs you've listed:

CFM - This is a combination of CS and more finance-y math. Think fintech.

CS/BBA DD - This is a full double degree program so there's a lot more to learn and it's a full 5-year program, so this is a full CS and a full BBA program. Very competitive and drop-out rates are very high.

Math/BBA DD - Similar to CS/BBA but this allows you to have a non-CS major on the UW side of things. Many students in this major in act sci, stats or C&O.

Math/Business - The single degree version of Math/BBA DD. Haven't really met anyone in this program and co-op employment rates aren't very good so I can only assume this isn't something you really want to aim for.

FARM - This is a very broad but shallow program. You take a wide variety of courses but you get put in between two very strong programs at UW: act sci and mathematical finance. They say this is a combination of act sci and finance; you might get the benefit of having many open doors, but you generally won't be competitive in any of them. Co-op employment rates is also very low in this one (one of the lowest in the entire math faculty)

alanbrenton wrote: ↑ Yeah, tried to talk her into dentistry or med school to no avail. I was going to throw a free Tesla M3 as part of the deal. I didn't know tuition for dentistry was $200+k, lol.

I think that is what MBA is for. I did have a couple of classmates with engineering degrees who decided to do their MBA's. I think the quantitative discipline in Engineering helps a lot but the rigors of that kind of thinking you can always get elsewhere.

Who knows, maybe she will be the investment finance professional I always wanted to become.

maybe she should have listened to you about med school: ear, nose and throat doctor to be specific
they said today that a lot of millennials are losing their hearing early due to loud noises (cars tricked out) or ear buds with volumes to high
plus seniors losing their hearing over a life time

then throat cancers d/t HPV virus or d/t smoking/vaping/smoking weed is on the rise, even before retirement age

this is a career for now and for the future

Geez, why do they have so many "business" programs? No wonder the poor kids are confused.

^ Too late for Med School now, haha. Dentistry would been much easier but she can't stand the sight of blood during surgery. Maybe more horror flicks should be in store.

Heard back good news from WLU. We attended a webinar and I couldn't believe what the fellow said --99% of co-op students land a stint but of course some are too picky or don't drive that working for some companies could be a major pain.

Co-op is compulsory for the double degree with Waterloo and therefore entry is automatic for students who progress to second year in the program. Employers post jobs and select the applicants they wish to hire. Students build their resume with work and volunteer experience, along with maintaining good grades, in order to be attractive candidates during the competitive recruitment process. We help students in the job search process by guiding them in developing their cover letter/resume and their interview skills.

Okay, she got waitlisted at Queen's, lol.


I think what is really going around in our minds is how helpful the BMath degree from UWaterloo is (personal and workplace application instead of purely theoretical). From Reddit posts, it seems 25-30% of BBA/BMath drop out of the BMath portion after first year because the course load is intense. Even the Fin Math from Laurier pails in comparison to UWaterloo's BMath.

Edit: Didn't know UWaterloo has Data Science:
https://uwaterloo.ca/data-science/undergraduate-program

under the Act Sci/Stats department I believe. It's like peeling onion layers, haha.

alanbrenton wrote: ↑ Okay, she got waitlisted at Queen's, lol.


I think what is really going around in our minds is how helpful the BMath degree from UWaterloo is (personal and workplace application instead of purely theoretical). From Reddit posts, it seems 25-30% of BBA/BMath drop out of the BMath portion after first year because the course load is intense. Even the Fin Math from Laurier pails in comparison to UWaterloo's BMath.

Edit: Didn't know UWaterloo has Data Science:
https://uwaterloo.ca/data-science/undergraduate-program

under the Act Sci/Stats department I believe. It's like peeling onion layers, haha.

I just finished first year of BMath/BBA (Laurier Based). I wouldn't say that much drops out in first year. I have two friends that dropped to BBA only, and based on course enrollment numbers, I would say it's closer to 15% drop out in first year. It's a great program, but you really have to put the time into the math portion of it.