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Using DHCP on canera system conflicting IP address with debit/visa machine?

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[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 23, 2013
1246 posts
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Vaughan

Using DHCP on canera system conflicting IP address with debit/visa machine?

Hello.
My aunts asking me for some help here with her restaurant. I'm not too familiar with networking.
She has all of her stuff running to her bell home hub and a switch (registers, debit/visa machine, Internet and such). I plugged in her camera system to an open port on the switch and it took about 5 minutes for the DHCP to finally connect the camera system to the Internet.
When someone is viewing the cameras from another source such as mobile or computer, the debit/visa machine does not work. Could this be due to conflicting IP addressss? If so, can someone please explain how I would configure the camera system on a different IP address? It's a LOREX camera system. If you need the model I can get that too.
Thanks!
16 replies
Deal Addict
Aug 16, 2003
3288 posts
771 upvotes
Simple enough.

Both the debit machine and the camera have to be set to DHCP, then cycle power to both.

If the router is reset you will get IP conflicts until the devices are reset OR the IP leases expire.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 23, 2013
1246 posts
71 upvotes
Vaughan
fredsmith wrote: Simple enough.

Both the debit machine and the camera have to be set to DHCP, then cycle power to both.

If the router is reset you will get IP conflicts until the devices are reset OR the IP leases expire.
I don't know who setup her debit/visa machine nor how to set up DHCP on that. Should I attempt this or tell her to call the person who setup the debit/visa machine? Thanks again for the quick response.
Deal Fanatic
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Mar 20, 2009
8862 posts
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Vancouver
If you have access to her router, you should be able to get a list of the DHCP-issued IP addresses, usually under the Status information, called something like DHCP Client Table. Not every device uses a recognizable name, but you can probably figure it out. Turning every device using DHCP off and on should cause them to request new IP addresses, and the new ones should not be in conflict.

But the debit/visa machine doesn't necessarily use DHCP. It may have been given a fixed local IP address. The router doesn't manage fixed IP addresses, so the fixed IP address should always be assigned outside the router's DHCP-managed range. But maybe this wasn't set up properly. You would need to install a network traffic analyzer to figure that out, something like Wireshark. Watch for traffic that appears when the debit/visa machine is active and check the IP address.

Incidentally it's not a bad idea to give the camera a fixed IP address too so that it can easily be reached from outside the LAN. But make sure it's either outside the DHCP range, or else has a DHCP reservation. And mark it clearly on the camera. Changing the fixed IP address would make sure it doesn't conflict with the debit/visa machine, and eliminate that as the possible problem.

IP address conflict is not the only possible problem. Cameras can use a lot of network bandwidth. It's possible that your network has limited bandwidth available (maybe a slow router?), and turning on the camera simply chokes it up so that the debit/visa machine isn't getting through.

Another possible problem is that they might use a conflicting port number for port forwarding. I can't see how it would be required for something to access your debit/visa machine from outside the LAN, but if it is, then it would have port forwarding set up with a specific port number. If your camera inadvertently uses the same port number (e.g., 80h or 8080h are common, the html ports), then there could be a conflict there.
Sr. Member
Jul 26, 2013
592 posts
368 upvotes
Toronto
I do tech support (also install cameras). Could be that DVR/NVR has been set to use a static ip. I would first check the settings of your camera system to make sure its set to DHCP (would be under network settings). If not, set the surveillance system setting to DHCP then reboot the surveillance system.

You''ll also need to find setting that says something like "DHCP Static" or DHCP Clients" or "DHCP Reservation" (wording depends router) on your router . There are three fields. Client name, Mac addresss, and IP address. The purpose of this table is to map a devices built-in mac address (theoretically unique for each device) to a specific ip to your network. For most devices this is unnecessary. The whole point of DHCP is that the router doles out IP addresses to prevent conflicts from users setting IPs manually. For my clients networks I typically only setup key equipment with static ip or devices like cameras that usually require port forwarding (which your camera system might also use to enable remote viewing. Can help with that too but not discussing in the post)

In theory the client name should be visible in DHCP reservation table to enable you to figure out what device is your camera so you know what to map. If not you'll need to do a little detective work to figure out what device is what (sometimes there is a mac address written on the device you can use). The mac address field is what's most important. It's the actual id for the device. It's important you don't edit this field or else router will look for another device to map. Once you've identified the correct mac address put in the specific ip address you want your devices mac address to use then save and/or apply.

A word of caution when selecting ips. First make sure the ip is on the same network. Typically consumer routers default network will be something like 192.168.1.x or 192.168.0.x. So if you are mapping an ip to a 192.168.1.x network you might use an ip like 192.168.1.99. You can also only use numbers 1-254 but in practice 1 is typically reserved for router itself. You also want to make sure there are no other devices listed using the same dynamically or statically (basically you can use anything as per rules above but what's visible in the table).

There are few other less likely culprits but I would first try this to eliminate it as an issue.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 23, 2013
1246 posts
71 upvotes
Vaughan
needybot wrote: I do tech support (also install cameras). Could be that DVR/NVR has been set to use a static ip. I would first check the settings of your camera system to make sure its set to DHCP (would be under network settings). If not, set the surveillance system setting to DHCP then reboot the surveillance system.

You''ll also need to find setting that says something like "DHCP Static" or DHCP Clients" or "DHCP Reservation" (wording depends router) on your router . There are three fields. Client name, Mac addresss, and IP address. The purpose of this table is to map a devices built-in mac address (theoretically unique for each device) to a specific ip to your network. For most devices this is unnecessary. The whole point of DHCP is that the router doles out IP addresses to prevent conflicts from users setting IPs manually. For my clients networks I typically only setup key equipment with static ip or devices like cameras that usually require port forwarding (which your camera system might also use to enable remote viewing. Can help with that too but not discussing in the post)

In theory the client name should be visible in DHCP reservation table to enable you to figure out what device is your camera so you know what to map. If not you'll need to do a little detective work to figure out what device is what (sometimes there is a mac address written on the device you can use). The mac address field is what's most important. It's the actual id for the device. It's important you don't edit this field or else router will look for another device to map. Once you've identified the correct mac address put in the specific ip address you want your devices mac address to use then save and/or apply.

A word of caution when selecting ips. First make sure the ip is on the same network. Typically consumer routers default network will be something like 192.168.1.x or 192.168.0.x. So if you are mapping an ip to a 192.168.1.x network you might use an ip like 192.168.1.99. You can also only use numbers 1-254 but in practice 1 is typically reserved for router itself. You also want to make sure there are no other devices listed using the same dynamically or statically (basically you can use anything as per rules above but what's visible in the table).

There are few other less likely culprits but I would first try this to eliminate it as an issue.
Thank you for the information guys. She also has a 5/1 connection and I wonder if the bandwidth from the camera system is hogging it all when they are being viewed. I will have to check the IP address today.
Sr. Member
Jul 26, 2013
592 posts
368 upvotes
Toronto
To saturate the network would require several high resolution camera, at high frames. Lorex usually sells lower end systems with low resolutions, lower frames rates. Unless she has lots of cameras or a higher end system its unlikely its a network saturation issue.

That said, one way to check is just run a bandwidth tester with a computer plugged into same router. (compare number versus your ISPs claimed speed for you internet connection)
http://beta.speedtest.net/

If you have two computers on the same network an even better way is to just transfer a big file between them to calculate the real world speed of the network. (filesize/time in seconds)

If you want to figure out how much bandwidth your cameras are using here is useful online tool.
http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/ ... calculator

Credit terminals use very little bandwidth. If you want to assure bandwidth for them most routers these days has a Quality of Service (QoS) setting that allows you to priorize traffic for a particular port or ip. (typically used for time senstive applications like VOIP but can be used for anything if there as a particular need)
[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 23, 2013
1246 posts
71 upvotes
Vaughan
needybot wrote: To saturate the network would require several high resolution camera, at high frames. Lorex usually sells lower end systems with low resolutions, lower frames rates. Unless she has lots and lots of cameras or higher end system its unlikely its a network saturation issue.

That said, one way to check is just run a bandwidth tester with a computer plugged into same router. (compare number versus your ISPs claimed speed for you internet connection)
http://beta.speedtest.net/

If you have two computers on the same network an even better way is to just transfer a big file between them to calculate the real world speed of the network. (filesize/time in seconds)

If you want to figure out how much bandwidth your cameras are using here is useful online tool.
http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/ ... calculator
Thanks. She has 8 high resolution 1080p LOREX IP cameras hooked up to the DVR. I believe they are 30FPS if I am not mistaken.
Sr. Member
Jul 26, 2013
592 posts
368 upvotes
Toronto
8 at 1080p. It might be a bandwidth issue (but make sure to check other stuff first because CC terminals use very little bandwidth) . A few questions...

1 Do the cameras plug into router or into the NVR?

2. Is this 1 gb ethernet network or 100 mb network? (network cables,routers, switches, NVR should be similar specs)

3. Do you know the frame rates of each of the cameras? They might not all be set at same fps. Although surveillance system camera come advertised at a certain resolution the DVRs/NVRs themselves don't always support that with 8 camera systems set at highest resolutions with high frame rates. The processor chokes if its a cheaper system so in those instances some cameras get setup up at lower resolutions/fps Many surveillance system companies use marketing trickery by saying they are "capable of" 1080p/30 fps to describe individual cameras... but fail to mention that you might not get 1080p/30fps due to NVR bottleneck if all the cameras are set that high. (even more of an issue on 4MP and 4K systems)

4. Do you know what type of compression they are using? (e.g h.264)

5. Are you getting jittery video on any of the camera?


Edit 6: Just noticed you said Lorex IP cameras and DVR. Normally the term NVR is reserved for IP based cameras and DVR for analog based cameras. What kind of cable is between the camera and the recorder? The most ubiquitous kinds are cat5e/cat6, coax, and siamese (there are a few more). And what does the termination into the recorder look like (e.g. BNC? RJ-45?)
[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 23, 2013
1246 posts
71 upvotes
Vaughan
needybot wrote: 8 at 1080p. It might be a bandwidth issue (but make sure to check other stuff first because CC terminals use very little bandwidth) . A few questions...

1 Do the cameras plug into router or into the NVR?

2. Is this 1 gb ethernet network or 100 mb network? (network cables,routers, switches, NVR should be similar specs)

3. Do you know the frame rates of each of the cameras? They might not all be set at same fps. Although surveillance system camera come advertised at a certain resolution the DVRs/NVRs themselves don't always support that with 8 camera systems set at highest resolutions with high frame rates. The processor chokes if its a cheaper system so in those instances some cameras get setup up at lower resolutions/fps Many surveillance system companies use marketing trickery by saying they are "capable of" 1080p/30 fps to describe individual cameras... but fail to mention that you might not get 1080p/30fps due to NVR bottleneck if all the cameras are set that high. (even more of an issue on 4MP and 4K systems)

4. Do you know what type of compression they are using? (e.g h.264)

5. Are you getting jittery video on any of the camera?


Edit 6: Just noticed you said Lorex IP cameras and DVR. Normally the term NVR is reserved for IP based cameras and DVR for analog based cameras. What kind of cable is between the camera and the recorder? The most ubiquitous kinds are cat5e/cat6, coax, and siamese (there are a few more). And what does the termination into the recorder look like (e.g. BNC? RJ-45?)
Thanks for the helpful responses.
It's an 8-ch NVR that has 8 active Ethernet ports with cat5e terminated at both ends from each camera back to the NVR. A single cat5e cable is also running from the NVR to the switch.
When we view them via another source, they are incredibly slow and choppy. Some of the cameras are seconds behind/ahead of the others and it's very blurry. My assumption is her upload speed of 800kb can not keep up however, this is the fastest she can get in her area. I'm telling her to get another line just for the cameras, what do you think? This way they will not interfere with the other stuff. Let me find the link the the cameras she purchased.
Jr. Member
Oct 15, 2008
171 posts
71 upvotes
Windsor
When the people are viewing the cameras from another source such as mobile or computer, are they doing that over the internet or within the existing network? The reason I ask is that if you are limited by the internet pipe, then it would be my guess that 8 cameras (well, 1 camera at 1080P depending on configuration) will max out the available internet upload speed leaving precious little for any other devices, including the debit machine. Further, if you can't connect well to the internet using Wifi while someone is trying to access a camera (again, I'm thinking you are trying this over the internet), it points further to the camera system being the resource hog. It would appear that the rest of the systems that you have connected likely have limited connectivity out to the internet, so they wouldn't see any/be affected by a slow down in internet speed. Good luck figuring it out!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Oct 24, 2012
11543 posts
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Montreal
All IP cameras I've bought came with static IP adresses that I had to change manually.

You probably have a conflict of IP.
Deal Expert
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Jul 22, 2006
22095 posts
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Go into each camera and make sure they are set to DHCP.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 23, 2013
1246 posts
71 upvotes
Vaughan
Will keep you all posted. Probably heading over to her restaurant this evening.
Sr. Member
Jul 26, 2013
592 posts
368 upvotes
Toronto
Ah. So you are having multiple issues. Cameras slow remotely and cc terminal not working. If you view the camera feeds over the local monitor connecting to NVR is it still jittery (assuming there is one) or does it happen only over the internet? How about if you view camera via a local PC?
Sr. Member
Jul 26, 2013
592 posts
368 upvotes
Toronto
Fyi -

If cameras are plugged into NVR it most likely means its on its own segment (there are some types of NVRs that have bridge mode but its rare). If that's the case it might lead to slowdown on NVRs segment but its usually not responsible for slowing down the rest of the network (which is on a different segment). The single line to your switch will usually only use a lower bandwidth secondary stream for remote viewing (the primary stream being used by the recorder itself).

If properly configured 800K wan should be adequate for internet upload of the NVR connection. However there are some caveats. For example if someone has misconfigured the secondary steams to be a very high resolution that would definitely slow things down. One thing you could try is setting up QOS on your router so that traffic from IP of cc terminal(s) gets guaranteed bandwidth. This wouldn't fix the remote camera viewing issue but may at least get CC terminal working. If the problem is the secondary stream or lack thereof then the way to fix that would be to make sure there is a secondary stream ata lower res and that your remote app/nvr are both configured properly to use it. (the NVR would accept both streams)


This is all just speculation at the moment. There are a several other possibilities too. I'd first try the stuff i mention (in order) in my first few posts above. Typically I try to eliminate simpler issues as the culprit before looking at the more complicated stuff.

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