Real Estate

Vancouver housing bubble?

  • Last Updated:
  • Oct 28th, 2020 1:45 pm
Tags:
None
Sr. Member
Aug 3, 2006
635 posts
412 upvotes
Sanyo wrote: https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/ ... ouver.html

So someone makes $20.91 per hour and expect to buy a prime piece of real estate in vancouver? come on now!
At $20.91 your not buying anything anywhere in Greater Vancouver. That's the point, incomes don't match up with housing prices. Now that they've cut foreign buyers out of the equation and cheap credit is coming to an end, the market will search for a new equilibrium.
Deal Guru
Jan 27, 2006
14563 posts
7468 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
choclover wrote: I agree 100%. I don't know if you have any specifics in mind when it comes to Twitter feeds but I think if you are paying attention as you are reading, you can almost tell by the nature of the posts who are legitimate and who are fronts for organized groups. I think what is most important is to keep an open mind and use linked sources as much as possible to verify content or statements. Everything else should be taken with a grain of salt. But, on the other hand, there has been information provided on some of the top polling mayoral candidates that is not provided by the media that gives some insight into their past. Sadly, the top 4 mayoral candidates (as per the polls) all have things in their background that concern me and make me believe that none of these four will put the interests of our City before their own. If you have ever seen any of these four at the mayoral debates especially in person, none of them show the type of behaviour or leadership I would expect from my mayor.

I think even the top polling candidate getting arrested for protesting the pipeline is not a good thing. Regardless of our individual positions on the pipeline, do we want to have a mayor someone who breaks the law instead of someone who uses his knowledge, skill and political background to fight the pipeline the legal and legitimate way????
That's true. And have you noticed that no-one seems to make a big deal of that?

As for the fronts, a little digging into the principals of those organizations using those feeds will generally tell you all you need to know. I posted a few opinions way back in this thread about various organizations which have great sounding 'independent' names but are really ran out of someone's house (or at least that's what Google Maps shows) and have either worked for or is currently working with either political parties or special interest groups which would end up benefiting from anyone following those Tweets or interviews for articles. Personal, I believe that it's a free country and they have the right to their opinion but if you are going to offer that opinion don't mask yourself with the cover of saying you are independent or morals when you have deep ties with a political view... be upfront and say who you represent not that you don't represent anyone.
Deal Guru
Jan 27, 2006
14563 posts
7468 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
RxMills wrote: Greggor Robertson
Ex Mayor of Vancouver

It couldn't happen to a better guy. May his current luck continue to follow him for the legacy of housing chaos, increased homelessness, drug epidemic, mass exodus of Vancouverites, small business closures, foreign ownership epidemic, and municipal debt that his left for the citizens of Vancouver.

Although he's not exclusively to blame, as he had help from Christie Clark, he contributed significantly to all these issues.
Actually, I believe he deserves the lion share of the blame as he provided a lot of cover fire (along with a host of other Lower Mainland government leaders) for a lot of what went on. His continual denial of empty homes being a problem, adding continuously to various amounts of red tape for new developments - I believe that there has been a ton of articles of how it's much harder to get permitting done in Vancouver than anywhere else - and double talk about being the Greenist city while creating congestion with poorly planned 'transit/road' improvements and the massive rate of teardowns of older homes. It's hard to be the Greenist city when the landfills are being loaded up with construction waste!
Deal Guru
Jan 27, 2006
14563 posts
7468 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
datoprookie wrote: At $20.91 your not buying anything anywhere in Greater Vancouver. That's the point, incomes don't match up with housing prices. Now that they've cut foreign buyers out of the equation and cheap credit is coming to an end, the market will search for a new equilibrium.
Unless you talk to those who deny that foreign buyers were ever here or had such a small percentage of the market that it didn't matter.
Deal Fanatic
Feb 9, 2009
9351 posts
6966 upvotes
datoprookie wrote: At $20.91 your not buying anything anywhere in Greater Vancouver. That's the point, incomes don't match up with housing prices. Now that they've cut foreign buyers out of the equation and cheap credit is coming to an end, the market will search for a new equilibrium.
Sure suburbs maybe but if someone thinks they are making 20 bucks an hour and gonna get a view of the mountains from the 20th floor in downtown vancover they got another thing coming...
Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
7470 posts
3580 upvotes
craftsman wrote: Actually, I believe he deserves the lion share of the blame as he provided a lot of cover fire (along with a host of other Lower Mainland government leaders) for a lot of what went on. His continual denial of empty homes being a problem, adding continuously to various amounts of red tape for new developments - I believe that there has been a ton of articles of how it's much harder to get permitting done in Vancouver than anywhere else - and double talk about being the Greenist city while creating congestion with poorly planned 'transit/road' improvements and the massive rate of teardowns of older homes. It's hard to be the Greenist city when the landfills are being loaded up with construction waste!
I actually think (sadly) that Vancouver has become the GREEDIEST city. I can't believe how the policies of City Hall have really brought out the worst in some people. Ugh!
Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
7470 posts
3580 upvotes
I am starting to get a bit nervous about how the results of this upcoming municipal election might play out. I just fear that most of our fellow voters have not invested the time into understanding who the candidates really are and what they are going to give us if they are given power. Furthermore, the mainstream media news sources and the various debates do not give fair and full coverage of candidates but selectively cherry pick candidates who appear to be backed by special interest groups. I am not saying that I have all the answers but clearly there are a whole lot of candidates in the mayoral and council race that will make things worse for our City if elected. There are also a bunch of candidates who seem radically left and want to tax the crap out of people that are homeowners in the name of the have-nots (not sure if these taxes ever go to helping the have-nots if you look at other times such excuses have been used for excessive taxation.) Not sure what we as citizens can do at this point to prevent the equivalent of a Vision 2.0 from happening again. Ten years of non-democracy is too much to take already.
Member
Jul 26, 2015
212 posts
134 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
craftsman wrote: Unless you talk to those who deny that foreign buyers were ever here or had such a small percentage of the market that it didn't matter.
Everyone totally omits the policies that our banks have in place for the new immigrants.
Within 5 years of moving to Canada banks do not require any proof of income for the new immigrants to get a mortgage as long as the downpayment is in place.

Let’s say a family of 3 moves to Canada: parents and a child over 19 years old.
They can buy up to 2 properties per person, walk into any major bank (TD, Scotia etc) and get a mortgage of up to 65% of the property value for each property (downpayment of 35% and up). So 6 properties can be bought, no proof of income is required (a special policy for new immigrants, still in place).

Then this family can walk to a BMO branch. BMO is known not to look into mortgages given out by other banks. If you are a new immigrant and don’t have a mortgage with BMO, it’s like you have no mortgage at all. And they can do it again. No proof of income is required. They can buy up to 2 properties per person, so another 6 properties.

To be fair, each additional property is harder to get. Not every family will go up to 12 for sure. Most will settle at 4-5 properties.
This is a perfect way to make a safe investment, move their money to a Canada and create some cash flow.

Most of new immigrants struggle getting a job in Canada. So to some extent this is their way to guarantee that they can sustain themselves in Canada, become a landlord.

But guess what?! Suddenly ONE family has FIVE properties instead of the ONE they really need. It really hurts affordability for local buyers.

It’s also hard to blame the newcomers that take advantage of the lending rules we have in place. After all, 5 years after landing in Canada they will not likely be able to buy even 2 properties, since not many people will have that much income in place. It’s an opportunity that a lot of people jump on. But it really hurts affordability, the approach is too easy.

By the way, new immigrants have Permanent Resident status, so the foreigners tax does not apply.
Sr. Member
Aug 3, 2006
635 posts
412 upvotes
Sanyo wrote: Sure suburbs maybe but if someone thinks they are making 20 bucks an hour and gonna get a view of the mountains from the 20th floor in downtown vancover they got another thing coming...
Lol not sure what makes you think Vancouver suburbs are attainable for someone making 21$ because that is not even close to reality.
Deal Guru
Jan 27, 2006
14563 posts
7468 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Sam286 wrote: Everyone totally omits the policies that our banks have in place for the new immigrants.
Within 5 years of moving to Canada banks do not require any proof of income for the new immigrants to get a mortgage as long as the downpayment is in place.

Let’s say a family of 3 moves to Canada: parents and a child over 19 years old.
They can buy up to 2 properties per person, walk into any major bank (TD, Scotia etc) and get a mortgage of up to 65% of the property value for each property (downpayment of 35% and up). So 6 properties can be bought, no proof of income is required (a special policy for new immigrants, still in place).

Then this family can walk to a BMO branch. BMO is known not to look into mortgages given out by other banks. If you are a new immigrant and don’t have a mortgage with BMO, it’s like you have no mortgage at all. And they can do it again. No proof of income is required. They can buy up to 2 properties per person, so another 6 properties.

To be fair, each additional property is harder to get. Not every family will go up to 12 for sure. Most will settle at 4-5 properties.
This is a perfect way to make a safe investment, move their money to a Canada and create some cash flow.

Most of new immigrants struggle getting a job in Canada. So to some extent this is their way to guarantee that they can sustain themselves in Canada, become a landlord.

But guess what?! Suddenly ONE family has FIVE properties instead of the ONE they really need. It really hurts affordability for local buyers.

It’s also hard to blame the newcomers that take advantage of the lending rules we have in place. After all, 5 years after landing in Canada they will not likely be able to buy even 2 properties, since not many people will have that much income in place. It’s an opportunity that a lot of people jump on. But it really hurts affordability, the approach is too easy.

By the way, new immigrants have Permanent Resident status, so the foreigners tax does not apply.
The banks are looking at it as a way to attract the 'wealthy' into opening accounts. Banks make a lot of money off of the wealthy using their existing infrastructure so it's no surprise that they (meaning all of them and I'm sure a few credit unions as well) went after them so hard.

But most people don't realize that while those foreign investors have purchased multiple houses with little money down (sounds like a infomercial from the late '80s) causing excessive demand that wasn't there before, the reverse is also true that when that excess inventory becomes excess supply which we might be seeing as the thin end of the wedge especially with all of the reports that the Chinese stock market and certain segments of their economy are having issues and those 'investors' need a source of funds to keep their domestic finances afloat.
Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
7470 posts
3580 upvotes
craftsman wrote: The banks are looking at it as a way to attract the 'wealthy' into opening accounts. Banks make a lot of money off of the wealthy using their existing infrastructure so it's no surprise that they (meaning all of them and I'm sure a few credit unions as well) went after them so hard.

But most people don't realize that while those foreign investors have purchased multiple houses with little money down (sounds like a infomercial from the late '80s) causing excessive demand that wasn't there before, the reverse is also true that when that excess inventory becomes excess supply which we might be seeing as the thin end of the wedge especially with all of the reports that the Chinese stock market and certain segments of their economy are having issues and those 'investors' need a source of funds to keep their domestic finances afloat.
Vancouver could really use this right now. If a rapid influx of supply came online, I think it would so desperately relieve the pressure both renters and want-to-be homebuyers are experiencing in terms of securing the kind of shelter they want to live in. I can't help but think that the U.S. trade policies are affecting China's situation right now and that in a roundabout kind of way might be helping move things in the right direction for releasing "empty" housing supply in Vancouver. I hope we get the relief that is much needed and sooner rather than later.
Deal Addict
Apr 10, 2011
1918 posts
1542 upvotes
GVRD
Ex-Mayor Greggor Robertson Refuses to Believe He Was At Fault for Any City Problems...


'People want to blame me': Outgoing Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson reflects on 10 years in office

“Collectively we’ve achieved a lot of great successes. But generally in politics and particularly being the mayor, you end up being in the blame game for when things do go wrong."

Victories:
(1) Greening Vancouver
(2) Bike Lanes

Failures:
- Soaring Home Ownership Costs
- Soaring New Rental Costs
- Near Zero Vacancy Rate
- Massively Increased Building Permit Times for New Home Construction (Doubling, Tripling)
- Lowest Rental Unit Construction in History
- No New Housing Coops
- Placed New Modular Homeless Shelters in Family Neighbourhoods and Near Schools
- Small Business and Retail Store Closures
- Mishandling Snow Crisis (Went on Vacation to the Caribbean with Girlfriend While City Shut Down by Snow)
- Massively Increased Homelessness
- Massively Increased City Property and Other Crimes
- Needles and Drug Use at All City Parks, Beaches and Schools
- etc.
- etc.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-new ... -in-office

It was your only job to help reduce these problems.

Instead, you GREGGOR ROBERTSON focused on a GREEN CRISIS. There was no Green Crisis that needed solving.
Images
  • vancouver-pride-201708064.jpg
Last edited by RxMills on Oct 12th, 2018 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Guru
Jan 27, 2006
14563 posts
7468 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
choclover wrote: Vancouver could really use this right now. If a rapid influx of supply came online, I think it would so desperately relieve the pressure both renters and want-to-be homebuyers are experiencing in terms of securing the kind of shelter they want to live in. I can't help but think that the U.S. trade policies are affecting China's situation right now and that in a roundabout kind of way might be helping move things in the right direction for releasing "empty" housing supply in Vancouver. I hope we get the relief that is much needed and sooner rather than later.
We are seeing some of that happening right now as all of the major indicators (except price) is trending towards a buyers market. The problem with price is that it's not obvious unlike other indicators like inventory - ie. price is dependent on a property and is often disguised by averages, benchmark/model pricing, and the past (ie only completed transactions are included). However, if you look at how the market has turned from bidding wars to drive the price up to lowering of prices just to get a bid, you'll see that it's a vastly different market than what it was even 12 months a go.
Deal Guru
Jan 27, 2006
14563 posts
7468 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
RxMills wrote: Ex-Mayor Greggor Robertson Refuses to Believe He Was At Fault for Any City Problems...


'People want to blame me': Outgoing Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson reflects on 10 years in office

“Collectively we’ve achieved a lot of great successes. But generally in politics and particularly being the mayor, you end up being in the blame game for when things do go wrong."

Victories:
(1) Greening Vancouver
(2) Bike Lanes

Failures:
- Soaring Home Ownership Costs
- Soaring New Rental Costs
- Near Zero Vacancy Rate
- Massively Increased Building Permit Times for New Home Construction (Doubling, Tripling)
- Lowest Rental Unit Construction in History
- No New Housing Coops
- Placed New Modular Homeless Shelters in Family Neighbourhoods and Near Schools
- Small Business and Retail Store Closures
- Mishandling Snow Crisis (Went on Vacation to the Caribbean with Girlfriend While City Shut Down by Snow)
- Massively Increased Homelessness
- Massively Increased City Property and Other Crimes
- Needles and Drug Use at All City Parks, Beaches and Schools
- etc.
- etc.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-new ... -in-office
Those two 'victories' really depend on what perspective you look at them from and what your goalpost are...

For example - Greening Vancouver - you can say that a number of 'green' alternatives have been introduced (ie bike sharing, bike lanes, greening building practices....) but for each one of those alternatives, there's a dark and not so green side of things. Bike sharing has placed major pressures bike rental shops who depending on many of the customers that those bike sharing stands are targeting and has removed a lot of extra parking spots which have caused cars to 'circle the block' causing more pollution. Bike lanes have been terribly under utilized for the space dedicated and in spots, those bike lanes have taken away from the pedestrians walkaways making it harder for them to get around. The greening building practices have not increased housing affordability or availability... if anything, these practices have added thousands of extra cost to home ownership. To make matters worse, the level of redevelopment has created an environment where many of Vancouver's heritage homes have ended up either burnt or torn down resulting in not only a lost in culture and history but a filling of our landfills.

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)