Careers

Layoffs will continue to hit the tech sector hard.

Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
21738 posts
21353 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…

Layoffs will continue to hit the tech sector hard.

Since the other thread got nuked, let’s continue the discussion (on topic) here. Tech is under attack from multiple angles. The economy is one and AI is the other.

https://www.engadget.com/meta-will-requ ... 43689.html

Remote workers…they're coming for us! This is a silent layoff in a sense. Expect more companies to follow.
334 replies
Sr. Member
May 9, 2012
520 posts
173 upvotes
SF Bay Area
To avoid the thread getting nuked again, what's the intention of this thread?

A place to gather layoff information like layoff.fyi?
or a place to discuss how to prepare for a layoff?
or to speculate about layoff?

Without some actionable items, this thread will go down the same path as the other one.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Dec 10, 2004
7571 posts
3145 upvotes
Canada
Those who derail threads should be banned...
Overall, a good topic and very relevant to the workforce, economy and IT and it should be discussed as it is happening already and it will only get worse for some sectors.
AI implementation will take time. Someone I knew who used to write articles on Fiver said the orders had dried out from about 4-6 a week to about 1 per month in the last 6 months as more people seem to be using ChatGPT.
I use voice typing, expect mistakes...
Deal Addict
May 4, 2007
1304 posts
721 upvotes
Tech workers had gain too much leverage and power (all the talk about unions in videogames companies, workers speaking up against their company's business practices, e.g. military contracts, privacy violations, AI policies, etc), especially during the pandemic. The bosses needed to create an atmosphere of fear in the working class again.

MSFT announced a salary freeze while stock is near all-time high. They did it because workers now fear for their jobs. There are many rounds of layoffs that never made the news.

Many mid-level and low-level managers hate work-from-home because it exposes the fact that some of them are not really needed.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
21738 posts
21353 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
pltz77 wrote: To avoid the thread getting nuked again, what's the intention of this thread?

A place to gather layoff information like layoff.fyi?
or a place to discuss how to prepare for a layoff?
or to speculate about layoff?

Without some actionable items, this thread will go down the same path as the other one.
All of the above.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
21738 posts
21353 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
dysonlu wrote: Tech workers had gain too much leverage and power (all the talk about unions in videogames companies, workers speaking up against their company's business practices, e.g. military contracts, privacy violations, AI policies, etc), especially during the pandemic. The bosses needed to create an atmosphere of fear in the working class again.

MSFT announced a salary freeze while stock is near all-time high. They did it because workers now fear for their jobs. There are many rounds of layoffs that never made the news.

Many mid-level and low-level managers hate work-from-home because it exposes the fact that some of them are not really needed.
The system only works when workers are subservient. Employers are trying to re-establish the power dynamic.
Deal Expert
Oct 7, 2010
15536 posts
5790 upvotes
dazz wrote: Those who derail threads should be banned...
Overall, a good topic and very relevant to the workforce, economy and IT and it should be discussed as it is happening already and it will only get worse for some sectors.
AI implementation will take time. Someone I knew who used to write articles on Fiver said the orders had dried out from about 4-6 a week to about 1 per month in the last 6 months as more people seem to be using ChatGPT.
ChatGPT can write articles?
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Dec 10, 2004
7571 posts
3145 upvotes
Canada
spike1128 wrote: ChatGPT can write articles?
Are you joking or a serious question?

If you are being serious, then yes, easily and 10,000s of marketing and folks in communications already using it. Give it a criteria, topic, number of words and it will create any article you want.
I use voice typing, expect mistakes...
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Dec 10, 2004
7571 posts
3145 upvotes
Canada
Chatgpt is very popular with SEOs when you have to write 100s of articles about nonsense to fill the blogs,etc.

Here's an example:
Write a 300 word article about being a failed comedian in Toronto. Use humor to get the message across

Article:
Toronto's Comedy Circuit: Tales from a Failed Jester

Picture this: the dimly lit stage, the eager crowd awaiting laughter, and the spotlight shining with the weight of expectations. For some, the path to comedic stardom in Toronto is paved with uproarious laughter and standing ovations. But for a select few, like myself, it's a journey that leads straight into the land of failed punchlines and awkward silences.

Being a failed comedian in Toronto is like being the punchline of your own joke. You practice your routines tirelessly, imagining the uproarious applause and the sound of laughter filling the room. But alas, reality has a way of shattering dreams, leaving you with nothing but the echoes of your own failed attempts at humor.

The comedy scene in Toronto is a merciless beast, ready to devour any misplaced comedic timing or lackluster delivery. It's a jungle out there, with comedy clubs serving as the hunting ground for both seasoned veterans and wide-eyed novices. In this cutthroat environment, one must have nerves of steel and a thick skin that can deflect even the harshest of heckles.

My journey into the realm of failed comedy began with a naive confidence that I was destined to be the next big thing. Armed with my arsenal of dad jokes and puns, I stepped onto the stage, expecting the audience to be rolling in the aisles. Little did I know that my punchlines would land with all the grace of a deflated balloon.

As the awkward silence engulfed the room, I learned the hard way that comedy is subjective. What may tickle your funny bone could leave others cringing in their seats. But hey, at least I managed to provide some unintentional comedic relief, right?

In the world of failed comedy, resilience becomes your closest companion. Each failure becomes a lesson, an opportunity to refine your craft and find your comedic voice. It's a humbling experience that forces you to embrace your flaws and accept that not everyone will find you funny.

So here I stand, a self-proclaimed master of failed punchlines, forever chasing the elusive roar of laughter. Toronto may be a city of successful comedians, but it's also a city that knows how to appreciate the underdog, the one who dares to stumble on the path to greatness. And who knows, maybe one day, in a sea of failed jokes, I'll stumble upon the one that brings down the house. Until then, I'll keep honing my craft, one failed punchline at a time.
I use voice typing, expect mistakes...
Deal Expert
Oct 7, 2010
15536 posts
5790 upvotes
dazz wrote: Are you joking or a serious question?

If you are being serious, then yes, easily and 10,000s of marketing and folks in communications already using it. Give it a criteria, topic, number of words and it will create any article you want.
So the communications department is sealing its own doom? Hahaha
Sr. Member
Sep 28, 2003
900 posts
529 upvotes
pltz77 wrote: To avoid the thread getting nuked again, what's the intention of this thread?

A place to gather layoff information like layoff.fyi?
or a place to discuss how to prepare for a layoff?
or to speculate about layoff?

Without some actionable items, this thread will go down the same path as the other one.
I like the direction of the thread since it's already off-topic on the first page. There was a lack of direction from the start of the thread when there's a link to some article with no commentary or question posed to invoke discussion. It's been interesting to see how it quickly went to gig jobs being replaced by ChatGPT.
Sr. Member
Jul 19, 2022
921 posts
1265 upvotes
In the original thread, now locked, @ProductGuy posted an example of an American company, Morningstar Inc., planning to hire hundreds of people in the Toronto area.

https://finance-yahoo-com.cdn.ampprojec ... 00923.html
ProductGuy wrote: Should I start a separate thread for companies adding new jobs to Toronto?

https://finance-yahoo-com.cdn.ampprojec ... 00923.html


Just FYI, I have been talking to this company, based in Chicago, for a job here in Toronto, and let me tell you, they are looking for the cheapest workers they can get, they are " low - ballling " me.

I believe it is a foolish strategy - They may get IT workers now, but as soon as the "recession" is over, everyone is going to exit their ship because of low salaries.
___________________
Best regards,

Old man Whitfield
Deal Addict
Jan 9, 2004
1352 posts
586 upvotes
Toronto
MisterWhitfield wrote: In the original thread, now locked, @ProductGuy posted an example of an American company, Morningstar Inc., planning to hire hundreds of people in the Toronto area.

https://finance-yahoo-com.cdn.ampprojec ... 00923.html





Just FYI, I have been talking to this company, based in Chicago, for a job here in Toronto, and let me tell you, they are looking for the cheapest workers they can get, they are " low - ballling " me.

I believe it is a foolish strategy - They may get IT workers now, but as soon as the "recession" is over, everyone is going to exit their ship because of low salaries.
You're right. If you're laid off, a job is better than no job, but nobody would stay long term.

I see job postings such as:
Base Salary: The US base salary range for this position is $150,000 - $185,000. The CAD base salary range for this position is $150,000 - $185,000.
Which I also think is dumb.
Sr. Member
Jul 19, 2022
921 posts
1265 upvotes
LeetViet wrote: You're right. If you're laid off, a job is better than no job, but nobody would stay long term.

I see job postings such as:

Which I also think is dumb.
The case of Morningstar is even worse. They want to save the exchange rate, AND THEN SOME. I am not going to post the exact details, but these are horrible low ball offers.

I guess the positive side is that at least some jobs are coming to Toronto (and not another country, like India, etc.)

The negative side is that these companies are actually trying to take advantage of Canadian people, really badly.

Note: the first interview was with the hiring manager, then another one with the team members / other managers, and then there is a call with HR to discuss some "small" details, like SALARY.... by the time they mentioned this very low range, we had already wasted hours in this process (wasted time on both sides...). Just be careful if you value your time.
___________________
Best regards,

Old man Whitfield
Deal Expert
Oct 7, 2010
15536 posts
5790 upvotes
MisterWhitfield wrote: The case of Morningstar is even worse. They want to save the exchange rate, AND THEN SOME. I am not going to post the exact details, but these are horrible low ball offers.

I guess the positive side is that at least some jobs are coming to Toronto (and not another country, like India, etc.)

The negative side is that these companies are actually trying to take advantage of Canadian people, really badly.

Note: the first interview was with the hiring manager, then another one with the team members / other managers, and then there is a call with HR to discuss some "small" details, like SALARY.... by the time they mentioned this very low range, we had already wasted hours in this process (wasted time on both sides...). Just be careful if you value your time.
They would not find a good candidate in India. If you are a pro in India, you would just fly over the Pacific and earn the big bucks here.

Canadians always get paid low compare to US. This is why Canadians apply and go to the US branch.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
21738 posts
21353 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
MisterWhitfield wrote: In the original thread, now locked, @ProductGuy posted an example of an American company, Morningstar Inc., planning to hire hundreds of people in the Toronto area.

https://finance-yahoo-com.cdn.ampprojec ... 00923.html





Just FYI, I have been talking to this company, based in Chicago, for a job here in Toronto, and let me tell you, they are looking for the cheapest workers they can get, they are " low - ballling " me.

I believe it is a foolish strategy - They may get IT workers now, but as soon as the "recession" is over, everyone is going to exit their ship because of low salaries.

I don't think these companies care, to be honest. They'll "deal with it when it happens" is the strategy.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
21738 posts
21353 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
MisterWhitfield wrote: The case of Morningstar is even worse. They want to save the exchange rate, AND THEN SOME. I am not going to post the exact details, but these are horrible low ball offers.

I guess the positive side is that at least some jobs are coming to Toronto (and not another country, like India, etc.)

The negative side is that these companies are actually trying to take advantage of Canadian people, really badly.

Note: the first interview was with the hiring manager, then another one with the team members / other managers, and then there is a call with HR to discuss some "small" details, like SALARY.... by the time they mentioned this very low range, we had already wasted hours in this process (wasted time on both sides...). Just be careful if you value your time.
Salary expectations should have been discussed on the opening call with the recruiter. Canadians make low wages, so American companies want to take advantage of that.
Sr. Member
Jul 19, 2022
921 posts
1265 upvotes
JayLove06 wrote: Salary expectations should have been discussed on the opening call with the recruiter. Canadians make low wages, so American companies want to take advantage of that.
Don't tell me about best HR practices. I know that, but obviously, this company is not following them.

There was no "initial call with the recruiter". However, at the time of the application, I submitted my desired salary (mandatory field in the application). So they knew what I was expecting / looking for. They still made me go through the interviews, and then, they offered less.

Anyway... Just beware of companies like this. That's all what I am saying. Jobs are out there, but the salaries are coming down
___________________
Best regards,

Old man Whitfield
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2015
4373 posts
2499 upvotes
Calgary, AB
MisterWhitfield wrote: In the original thread, now locked, @ProductGuy posted an example of an American company, Morningstar Inc., planning to hire hundreds of people in the Toronto area.

https://finance-yahoo-com.cdn.ampprojec ... 00923.html





Just FYI, I have been talking to this company, based in Chicago, for a job here in Toronto, and let me tell you, they are looking for the cheapest workers they can get, they are " low - ballling " me.

I believe it is a foolish strategy - They may get IT workers now, but as soon as the "recession" is over, everyone is going to exit their ship because of low salaries.
Sounds like Oil and Gas (and construction). Recession hits, thousands let go. Many end up leaving the industry (some temporarily, many permanently), many end up being "exploited" by companies taking advantage of the low pay.

Then a "boom" hits and companies desperately try and grab anyone with some knowledge. That's when you leverage your position (still being in the industry helps) and get get a big bump in pay at a new company.

Foolish, but they get cheap labour and you get a job - better than stacking shelves in Walmart or HD.

This is the first real tech "bust" in a few decades so people in the industry don't really know what to expect.

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)