We are in a severe recessionary period, yet for the most part most things feel normal

Driverbe wrote: ↑ People are still buying, jobs still feel intact for the most part, recruiters are still competing for talent, and people don't seem very worried.

- A lot of people are living on debt. No change there really.
- Job losses fell into two main categories: 1.) Low wage jobs; 2.) Jobs directly related to travel, hospitality and restaurants.
- Recruiters for mid to senior level roles haven't changes. Those jobs, if unrelated to the above point, still exist.

unowned wrote: ↑ The irony is that I've noticed most of my friends that have either been furlowed/laid off/on CERB, theyre spending habits have loosened up a lot.\\

I was quite shocked by many people's spending habits (those around me) even before the outbreak. It’s very possible people are spending less on eating out and redirecting that money towards other purchases. Regardless, this level of consumerism can’t be healthy nor sustainable…

1) Many people earning near minimum wage getting daily Starbucks, Tim Hortons, eating out, etc... - I researched and learned to make pour over coffee and cold brew coffee years ago - spentaround $150 testing various reusable stainless steel pour over filters and reusable stainless steel filters for cold brew coffee. I can make great hot coffee or cold brew for less than 20 cents a cup… plus I don’t have to spend time waiting in drive throughs, less waste from disposable cups, etc.

2) People getting new "free" phone every 2 years on 2 year robbery contracts. I generally wait for a good deal from Koodo for a decent mid-range phone. Been on my $48/5GB Koodo Plan for 5+ years now.

3) People financing new and sometimes very expensive cars...

The real eye opener for me was when I helped a colleague budget for her monthly expenses a few years ago.
We earn about the same and she's spending up to $1,000 month eating out... that's considered being "conservative" for her - YIKES
In contrast; I budget 1k a year eating out max...

I do spend some money on electronics. My new PC setup last year was around $3,000 (New tower, monitors, peripherals, motorized standing desk). To put that in perspective; the last PC setup lasted me 7 years; with 3 upgrades (2 graphics card and an 1TB SSD).

Everyone’s goals are different… my goal is FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early).

bhrm wrote: ↑ We literally cannot afford a second wave, especially if the second wave is worse than the first.

A vaccine will restore consumer confidence by a 10000% too.

Realistically speaking (from available epidemiology data) - a 2nd wave will happen - it's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of when. The thought of a 2nd wave in the US terrifies me. I am genuinely scared for them.

I don't think anyone has really considered the logistical nightmare of manufacturing, distributing and managing the delivery of hundreds of millions (if not billions) of vaccines... Another tough question that will lead to chaos: Who decides which individuals will get the vaccine first? It's going to be shit show.

Mulder and Scully wrote: ↑ - A lot of people are living on debt. No change there really.

Which is why a 2nd wave terrifies me. I can't begin to imagine loan defaults, bankruptcies, etc in coming months.

Nobody is talking about this stuff in the media interestingly enough, I'll read forums where it's more widely discussed.

It feels like there is a veneer of positivity and 'yay, we're in phase 3!'. There is definitely more complacency with mask wearing and taking as much care.

There's this stagnant feeling in the air, like we're all just waiting for it to go down come September. Maybe it's just me - but I'm finding it hard to think long term. Taking it day by day.

Hell, I'm finding it really hard to even apply for jobs, I'm finding very little that aligns with my experience. Transferrable skills and industries feel like a big no go right now. I would LOVE to move away from my current industry but it just doesn't make sense to make it harder for myself. All my experience for the past 10 years is in one area. It's quite frustrating.

I guess all we can do is keep trying and see what takes place in the coming months.

Keep putting away any money you can. Better to be prepared.

What's mind boggling is the back to school plans (or lack of planning) could potentially help trigger the second wave.

A lot of offices aren't re-opening yet but schools are, sound logic right there.

On the job front though, there's quite of a bit of hiring but very specific area to adapt to post-covid world. Lots in tech and IT, telecom, healthcare.

Have been fortunate that work has continued for both my wife and myself (and is projected to continue). We have found our monthly costs - particularly transportation, have decreased. We tried to eat at home as much as possible, but with kids, some nights takeout was convenient. Now we are doing a meal out with a local restaurant once every week or two (to help keep our locals going). Have also made a few extra payments against the vehicle we still owe on.

bhrm wrote: ↑ What's mind boggling is the back to school plans (or lack of planning) could potentially help trigger the second wave.

A lot of offices aren't re-opening yet but schools are, sound logic right there.

On the job front though, there's quite of a bit of hiring but very specific area to adapt to post-covid world. Lots in tech and IT, telecom, healthcare.

I don't disagree with your observations. It is hard to reopen workplaces when 6 year old Johnny has no place to go though.

bhrm wrote: ↑ What's mind boggling is the back to school plans (or lack of planning) could potentially help trigger the second wave.

A lot of offices aren't re-opening yet but schools are, sound logic right there.

On the job front though, there's quite of a bit of hiring but very specific area to adapt to post-covid world. Lots in tech and IT, telecom, healthcare.

:'( I know. What was I thinking going into a creative industry - nobody tells you bluntly when you're younger to think of jobs that are 'recession proof'. I probably wouldn't have listened anyways. The foolishness of youth. I'm gonna have to determine what to do in the new year....go back to school or what. I dunno.

KevinM56081 wrote: ↑ I don't disagree with your observations. It is hard to reopen workplaces when 6 year old Johnny has no place to go though.

I don't disagree and I'm all for reopening schools but have zero faith with the ministry's plans (or lack of). Communities outside of the GTA seem okay as I was chatting with friends who live in smaller cities and towns and had literally 1 or 2 cases only.

Ministry's plans are too little too late. How will school boards spend half a billion in less than two weeks?

bhrm wrote: ↑ I don't disagree and I'm all for reopening schools but have zero faith with the ministry's plans (or lack of). Communities outside of the GTA seem okay as I was chatting with friends who live in smaller cities and towns and had literally 1 or 2 cases only.

Ministry's plans are too little too late. How will school boards spend half a billion in less than two weeks?

Yes. Even if the funding was offered in the first of April, it would be a difficult task to accomplish. I think the biggest stumbling block is the amount of unknown.

KevinM56081 wrote: ↑ Yes. Even if the funding was offered in the first of April, it would be a difficult task to accomplish. I think the biggest stumbling block is the amount of unknown.

I'm just an armchair expert but they could easily mimic protocol from schools in Asia, who already opened back up. Stocking up PPE, improve school ventilation, secure additional space for classes, hire more teachers to reduce class size, online teaching platforms and adapted curriculum, upgrade school IT for distanced/hybrid models, hire those 500 school nurses. They sat on their hands for months.

Even if people are employed, many have reduced hours and less or no overtime due to reduced hrs of operations. Those jobs still remain risk of layoffs or further reductions of work and hours.
Is the fed govt prepared to write off all mortgages and rents if massive unemployment occurs due to 2nd3rd waves?
The govt needs to assure canadians.....and so far we have nothing in support of that yet the media keeps fearmongering about coming if the terrifying 2nd wave

More updated figures, same source.
July numbers, compare them to June and May's numbers.

motomondo wrote: ↑ I could not find numbers for June, but here is a reference.

Source of data is Stats Canada, posted at Global News.


What the numbers show is simply a massive loss of jobs during 2020, with a slight recovery in May.

apnayloags wrote: ↑ The govt needs to assure canadians.....and so far we have nothing in support of that yet the media keeps fearmongering about coming if the terrifying 2nd wave

If people don't fear the second wave...it would be a disaster.

Driverbe wrote: ↑ what am I missing?

Money printing.

My company posted on our website to hire 4 CSR position. First day we already have over 70+ resumes. Usually if we are lucky if we get 10 in the past.

apnayloags wrote: ↑ Even if people are employed, many have reduced hours and less or no overtime due to reduced hrs of operations. Those jobs still remain risk of layoffs or further reductions of work and hours.
Is the fed govt prepared to write off all mortgages and rents if massive unemployment occurs due to 2nd3rd waves?
The govt needs to assure canadians.....and so far we have nothing in support of that yet the media keeps fearmongering about coming if the terrifying 2nd wave

That would never happen the Gov can't force banks to write off mortages and debs. Also they can't keep millions on CERB payroll or new CERB/EI in the end someday is going have to pay it up. And I sure don't want my my tax increase. I rather see reduction in gov spending and program cuts. Or maybe slim down the go gov force.

You are biased because your circle of family, friends, and colleagues hasn't been affected. Not to mention the government provided a safety net for most people that fell through the cracks. I think if the 2nd wave is significant enough to shut down again a lot of people will lose their shirts. But my gut feeling is that the government won't shut down again even if the infection numbers are similar to the peak.

Extrahard wrote: ↑ You are biased because your circle of family, friends, and colleagues hasn't been affected. Not to mention the government provided a safety net for most people that fell through the cracks. I think if the 2nd wave is significant enough to shut down again a lot of people will lose their shirts. But my gut feeling is that the government won't shut down again even if the infection numbers are similar to the peak.

Retailers have made up their losses from the March slow down. Consumers are buying, supply chain is optimized. Yes, restaurants and retail will never look the same, but that's just pivot to another model. Record house sales were noted during the 'recession' and 'lockdown'.

Media fear mongering and superbly conservative economists (to protect their own jobs) are the reason why we haven't made more bold moves.

Yes, school issue is still a big issue.

"Here comes trouble, put your helmet on, we'll be headin for a fall. Yeah the whole thing's gonna blow..." - TV on the Radio

Just like radiation poisoning we're feeling great now but the effects are on the way.

People are getting complacent and the feeling is that it's all good now, but when the schools and borders reopen bodies will be dropping. The urgency is lost on us because we didn't have massive death tolls and kids think it's an old people problem

M1K3Z0R wrote: ↑ "Here comes trouble, put your helmet on, we'll be headin for a fall. Yeah the whole thing's gonna blow..." - TV on the Radio

Just like radiation poisoning we're feeling great now but the effects are on the way.

People are getting complacent and the feeling is that it's all good now, but when the schools and borders reopen bodies will be dropping. The urgency is lost on us because we didn't have massive death tolls and kids think it's an old people problem.

This is exactly what I meant with my post. Its a feeling of stagnant waiting for the comedown. I hope we're wrong. A bunch of schools in the US have already had major outbreaks.