Off Topic

what is minimum wage?

  • Last Updated:
  • May 12th, 2018 7:39 pm
Tags:
[OP]
Deal Expert
Dec 4, 2010
17357 posts
1657 upvotes
Space for rent

what is minimum wage?

I hear people define it differently. some argue it is an amount that gets you by in life by the scruff of your neck. others argue it should be a living wage but what is that? 3 kraft dinner meals a day? bread and water? no luxuries like cell phone plans, car ownership, internet, what?

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/0 ... _23426538/


loblaws shareholders rejected a proposal to paying their workers a living wage. in British Columbia some smart people crunched some numbers and came up with $20 an hour. it wasn't long that tradesmen were making that. now people in service industries serving you coffee or putting cans of beans on a shelf say they deserve to be able to live comfortably like everyone else.
55 replies
Deal Addict
Jan 29, 2017
1558 posts
1084 upvotes
You have: minimum wage, poverty line, living wage...only minimum wage is defined by government.

People who think they deserve a "living wage" beyond minimum wage are free to negotiate one as part of their compensation package. There is no forced labour in Canada.
Last edited by peli33 on May 4th, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
[OP]
Deal Expert
Dec 4, 2010
17357 posts
1657 upvotes
Space for rent
Over 1.7 million people in Ontario live on incomes below the poverty line—$20,676 for a single person, or $41,351 for a household of four, according to 2011 data compiled by Statistics Canada.Feb 20, 2017
Deal Addict
Jul 13, 2012
4365 posts
513 upvotes
Ottawa
Minimum wage was never designed to be a living wage. It was designed to be a protection against pure free market forces driving the wages of unskilled labour to almost nothing.
Deal Addict
Jul 13, 2012
4365 posts
513 upvotes
Ottawa
Supercooled wrote:
May 4th, 2018 2:23 pm
I hear people define it differently. some argue it is an amount that gets you by in life by the scruff of your neck. others argue it should be a living wage but what is that? 3 kraft dinner meals a day? bread and water? no luxuries like cell phone plans, car ownership, internet, what?

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/0 ... _23426538/


loblaws shareholders rejected a proposal to paying their workers a living wage. in British Columbia some smart people crunched some numbers and came up with $20 an hour. it wasn't long that tradesmen were making that. now people in service industries serving you coffee or putting cans of beans on a shelf say they deserve to be able to live comfortably like everyone else.
There's often a difference between doing what is morally right and what is economically feasable. Every one may "deserve" a comfortable living but we simply cannot guarantee it to everyone. In Loblaws' case, if they resolve to pay their employees a living wage (while their competitors do not) they may not be able to be financially successful using their current business model.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Oct 1, 2011
6337 posts
1487 upvotes
The concept of a "living wage" needs to be considered as part of a greater system, but most calculations seem to only consider local factors, and this is what I object to.

For instance, let's say everyone in Canada decided that they had some sort of right to all cram in/around the GTA, or GVA, at once. Scarcity dictates that housing costs should go through the roof (higher than it already is) while there is a surplus in labour, but does that mean that anyone who is employed should get a huge jump into their wages or income to meet the "living wage" calculations?

This is what I have a big problem with when it comes to "living wage" calculations in places like Vancouver or Toronto. There are many other parts of the country that have relative labour shortages and the higher wages offered reflect that...but for whatever reason, some people feel entitled to live or move to wherever they want (GVA or GTA being the two most common cities which are also two of the most expensive) and then demand that their choices be subsidized. Hogwash.
[OP]
Deal Expert
Dec 4, 2010
17357 posts
1657 upvotes
Space for rent
peanutz wrote:
May 4th, 2018 3:15 pm
The concept of a "living wage" needs to be considered as part of a greater system, but most calculations seem to only consider local factors, and this is what I object to.

For instance, let's say everyone in Canada decided that they had some sort of right to all cram in/around the GTA, or GVA, at once. Scarcity dictates that housing costs should go through the roof (higher than it already is) while there is a surplus in labour, but does that mean that anyone who is employed should get a huge jump into their wages or income to meet the "living wage" calculations?

This is what I have a big problem with when it comes to "living wage" calculations in places like Vancouver or Toronto. There are many other parts of the country that have relative labour shortages and the higher wages offered reflect that...but for whatever reason, some people feel entitled to live or move to wherever they want (GVA or GTA being the two most common cities which are also two of the most expensive) and then demand that their choices be subsidized. Hogwash.
You and console watcher make good points. I enjoyed being g enlightened .
Penalty Box
User avatar
Apr 25, 2013
7030 posts
1228 upvotes
Supercooled wrote:
May 4th, 2018 2:23 pm
I hear people define it differently. some argue it is an amount that gets you by in life by the scruff of your neck. others argue it should be a living wage but what is that? 3 kraft dinner meals a day? bread and water? no luxuries like cell phone plans, car ownership, internet, what?

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/0 ... _23426538/


loblaws shareholders rejected a proposal to paying their workers a living wage. in British Columbia some smart people crunched some numbers and came up with $20 an hour. it wasn't long that tradesmen were making that. now people in service industries serving you coffee or putting cans of beans on a shelf say they deserve to be able to live comfortably like everyone else.
Minimum wage or no minimum wage the system is rigged to line the pockets of the 1% and the government !
If the government raises the minimum wage, they get to tax the worker's salary more and then gives an excuse for the manufacturers to raises prices and the government to tax them even more !
In the end the workers looses no matter which way. Only an authoritarian government can regulate artificially created inflated cost like we have here in North America and Europe !
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
5441 posts
2159 upvotes
The living wage includes the costs of being socially involved, doing things like having a gym and museum membership, an annual 2 weeks of vacation, a vehicle, monthly dinner out and so forth. It's the amount of money you need to live a good and righteous lifestyle and be visible within your community (as opposed to working and sitting on your couch, alternately).

According to http://livingwagecanada.ca/ in my area is takes $30k/yr to live well, or with dignity, or whatever: http://www.livingwagecanada.ca/files/66 ... r_2017.pdf

Of course you only need one good "hobby" (going out for drinks, smoking - both very social btw) and you can no longer afford all that goodness. But you should be able to! And anyone making more than $30k/yr should be able to save every penny more lol.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
5441 posts
2159 upvotes
In the end it probably has more to do with the Economist's Big Mac index in that it is the cost of a basket of goods and services in one given area vs. others:

https://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index

THE Big Mac index was invented by The Economist in 1986 as a lighthearted guide to whether currencies are at their “correct” level. It is based on the theory of purchasing-power parity (PPP), the notion that in the long run exchange rates should move towards the rate that would equalise the prices of an identical basket of goods and services (in this case, a burger) in any two countries. For example, the average price of a Big Mac in America in January 2018 was $5.28; in China it was only $3.17 at market exchange rates. So the "raw" Big Mac index says that the yuan was undervalued by 40% at that time.
[OP]
Deal Expert
Dec 4, 2010
17357 posts
1657 upvotes
Space for rent
lecale wrote:
May 4th, 2018 6:01 pm
In the end it probably has more to do with the Economist's Big Mac index in that it is the cost of a basket of goods and services in one given area vs. others:

https://www.economist.com/content/big-mac-index

THE Big Mac index was invented by The Economist in 1986 as a lighthearted guide to whether currencies are at their “correct” level. It is based on the theory of purchasing-power parity (PPP), the notion that in the long run exchange rates should move towards the rate that would equalise the prices of an identical basket of goods and services (in this case, a burger) in any two countries. For example, the average price of a Big Mac in America in January 2018 was $5.28; in China it was only $3.17 at market exchange rates. So the "raw" Big Mac index says that the yuan was undervalued by 40% at that time.

I wish I took economics. That is very abstract. So in other words, China is behind in wages?
Newbie
Mar 9, 2018
20 posts
7 upvotes
As far as I'm concerned, a company shouldn't be in business if they can't pay a livable wage. We are living in time when there is no reason for the most vulnerable in our society to be taken advantage of. At least for someone working full time hours anyway. If it's a part time gig, it's not as big of a deal. But if the part time wages were to be spread over 40 hours, it should be a livable wage.
[OP]
Deal Expert
Dec 4, 2010
17357 posts
1657 upvotes
Space for rent
Never54321 wrote:
May 5th, 2018 12:56 am
As far as I'm concerned, a company shouldn't be in business if they can't pay a livable wage. We are living in time when there is no reason for the most vulnerable in our society to be taken advantage of. At least for someone working full time hours anyway. If it's a part time gig, it's not as big of a deal. But if the part time wages were to be spread over 40 hours, it should be a livable wage.
Companies will always skirt around that by creative scheduling. It's in their playbook.


Walmart is the worst. Employ seniors and immigrants who are too dependant on their job to ask for changes.

I love how they have these motivational talks in the mornings before their shift begins. It looks and sounds like a damn religious cult meeting. I was privy to some and it made me cringe.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2008
5441 posts
2159 upvotes
Supercooled wrote:
May 5th, 2018 12:40 am
I wish I took economics. That is very abstract. So in other words, China is behind in wages?
Yes, but their wages have been rising quite a bit in the last 15 years along with the yuan.

I don't mean there is a exact application between the big Mac index and the living wage; I just mean these are similar economic tools or metrics used to describe the value of a basket of goods and services, that can be used to compare standard of living/purchasing parity from one area to another.

Living wage people argue that people's purchasing power has gone down over the years and people can no longer afford the simple life one could have enjoyed on the minimum in the past. It's not so much the dollars, its the what you can buy for those dollars.
Penalty Box
Apr 15, 2011
3702 posts
435 upvotes
Scarborough
It's one of a few policies in place, meant to balance out the market. The government guarantees businesses and corporations certain rights, which they wouldn't have in a real free market. This commie system in place takes away free market competition, and concentrates wealth/redistributing or stealing wealth from the masses. In order to minimize this imbalance, workers have a minimum wage policy in place. But to be honest, if the government ended all it's commie anti free market protections for businesses, minimum wage would not be needed.

Top