Real Estate

What is the Pre-Construction condo purchase process?

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Deal Guru
Jun 7, 2005
10358 posts
1482 upvotes
Toronto

What is the Pre-Construction condo purchase process?

Due to the crazy RE market, potential buyers are no longer lining up outside builder office for their pick. I was told by an agent that each buyer can find an agent to submit the "worksheet" with their top 5 model selections, and then wait for the "draw". Is it true ? How does the builder decide how many units/which units to give to thousands of agents in the market? I seriously doubt it is really a random assignment.

I am guessing there are agents who are pre-selected by the builder and they would have pre-assigned numbers of units on hand. This also mean those pre-selected RE agents guarantee the builder to sell that many units. Is my assumption correct? I heard radio commercial every weekend about the condo sale hosted by a RE agent, I assume they have a bunch of assigned units on hand. Otherwise, why would they waste the money hosting an event, drawing customers there while they have nothing to sell.

It seems like those "worksheet" potential buyers filled out are basically used by the agents (who do not have enough inventory on hand) to go around and find the units from their peers. If that is the case, then not every agent are the same for this type of purchase as not every agent has the same access & same numbers of units on hand. Shouldn't the right approach is to find the agents who have the most inventory on hand for your targeted condo ?
26 replies
Member
Mar 9, 2009
448 posts
189 upvotes
Toronto
A friend of mine went to a "VIP Sale" for a condo in Vaughan this week. She told me about a similar process they had there.

You go in with your agent, and give your top 3 picks (on a first come first serve basis). Then they get back to you, and tell you which pick you were able to secure. It didn't seem like a very transparent sales process to me.

I am not quite sure how the deposit works though - do you give your 5% deposit with your top 3 picks? Why would you give a deposit on such a large purchase without knowing exactly what you are buying.


As a side note, I personally think it's absolutely nuts. Prices were quite high as well for what you get (~$500,000 for a 770 sq ft condo ($650/sq ft) in Vaughan after fees + $40/month parking spot maintenance fee).
Newbie
Jan 26, 2017
9 posts
I think pre construction come in stages..first stage VIP,, not many selection, maybe 5 only agents have access.

then next stage builder opens to more agents and then last to public like us..but never heard of this "worksheet" select.. is so crazy now? really?
Deal Guru
Jun 7, 2005
10358 posts
1482 upvotes
Toronto
I see. It is good to know. So, they are hosting a presale event to draw people for submitting worksheets ? It is kind of ridiculous. You are right. It is crazy that we are asked to pay (put deposit) for something that we don't even what it is.

I agree the process is so vague. Is this "worksheet process" the same for all pre-construction condos? To avoid line up outside sales office ?

I totally don't know what the builder arrangement is with these worksheet process. Gathering all worksheets from thousands of agents and have a "lucky draw" after that ??

It should be based on the sequence of worksheet submission. Then, the builder tells the RE agent/client what are available at that moment based from their choices. I am thinking they are doing something similar. However, there are probably several big agencies who might have prearrangement with the builder that they will take (guarantee to sell) certain floors/whatever number of units. So the rest of other agencies fight for the remaining units with the worksheet process and they can also get the units from those big agents who are holding inventory.
hmm wrote: A friend of mine went to a "VIP Sale" for a condo in Vaughan this week. She told me about a similar process they had there.

You go in with your agent, and give your top 3 picks (on a first come first serve basis). Then they get back to you, and tell you which pick you were able to secure. It didn't seem like a very transparent sales process to me.

I am not quite sure how the deposit works though - do you give your 5% deposit with your top 3 picks? Why would you give a deposit on such a large purchase without knowing exactly what you are buying.


As a side note, I personally think it's absolutely nuts. Prices were quite high as well for what you get (~$500,000 for a 770 sq ft condo ($650/sq ft) in Vaughan after fees + $40/month parking spot maintenance fee).
Deal Guru
Jun 7, 2005
10358 posts
1482 upvotes
Toronto
RE agent told me that ever since they dropped the first come first serve long line up outside sales office practice, they have been using this worksheet process. But I don't exactly know how it works though. You can fill out all you want on the spreadsheet, but it doesn't mean you will even get any. Is there a RE Condo expert here can clarify this process !

Is it first submit first get to choose ? Builder takes all worksheets and draw ? or something else ?
xinplozion wrote: I think pre construction come in stages..first stage VIP,, not many selection, maybe 5 only agents have access.

then next stage builder opens to more agents and then last to public like us..but never heard of this "worksheet" select.. is so crazy now? really?
Sr. Member
Jun 18, 2004
793 posts
164 upvotes
Richmond Hill
Depends on the connection the realtor has and the broker of record of the brokerage the agent is employed with.

Some brokerage normally gets a few floors (30 or so units). Then some agent even know the big shot of the sales team (baker, milborne, psr, etc).

Take Halo, Axis, Ivy, Icona, 75 esplanade, etc for example a lot of agents claim to have access but in the end the buyer loses out and the agent will just tell you to wait for the next project.

I am fortunate to have made friends with a few leads and work under a brokerage that can get units at a high percentage.

Nowadays realtor work together and split commission too. So if you have a client that is looking for xyz and I have units allocated then I can send 3% back and keep 1%.

As for worksheet they are really for keeping track and also to help sales team prepare paperwork in advance when you go sign (assuming you get the unit).

Some projects, say there is one coming up at Yonge and eglinton before it is official, our office is already fortunate to have 4 floors assigned to us and we sold a lot of them already. Even condo seem to be hot these days.

Just make sure your realtor works real hard on finding a unit for you.
Deal Guru
Jun 7, 2005
10358 posts
1482 upvotes
Toronto
Thanks. You pretty much confirm what I thought :) Based on connection, some offices will get floors from the builders' new release.

Yes, I understand agents from different firms will work together too (i.e. one has inventory, the other has clients). I am just curious, for those super hot projects, what is the incentive for the agent/office who are holding the inventory to share with other agents ? If clients are looking for the super high demand units every where, they will eventually find that office (through commercial) and buy directly from them instead of going through his/her agent (unless they have signed an agreement and have to use that agent).
hiphopforce wrote: Depends on the connection the realtor has and the broker of record of the brokerage the agent is employed with.

Some brokerage normally gets a few floors (30 or so units). Then some agent even know the big shot of the sales team (baker, milborne, psr, etc).

Take Halo, Axis, Ivy, Icona, 75 esplanade, etc for example a lot of agents claim to have access but in the end the buyer loses out and the agent will just tell you to wait for the next project.

I am fortunate to have made friends with a few leads and work under a brokerage that can get units at a high percentage.

Nowadays realtor work together and split commission too. So if you have a client that is looking for xyz and I have units allocated then I can send 3% back and keep 1%.

As for worksheet they are really for keeping track and also to help sales team prepare paperwork in advance when you go sign (assuming you get the unit).

Some projects, say there is one coming up at Yonge and eglinton before it is official, our office is already fortunate to have 4 floors assigned to us and we sold a lot of them already. Even condo seem to be hot these days.

Just make sure your realtor works real hard on finding a unit for you.
Last edited by rdx on Jan 27th, 2017 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Newbie
Jan 26, 2017
9 posts
rdx wrote: RE agent told me that ever since they dropped the first come first serve long line up outside sales office practice, they have been using this worksheet process. But I don't exactly know how it works though. You can fill out all you want on the spreadsheet, but it doesn't mean you will even get any. Is there a RE Condo expert here can clarify this process !

Is it first submit first get to choose ? Builder takes all worksheets and draw ? or something else ?
yes i just asked agent, he said very popular pre construction projects do this now.. no lines,
when project is released at first only few agents get to sell..they bring buyers and get to draw. example- 5 agents bring 30 buyers but only 10 units available so only 10 of 30 get to buy, rest 20..sorry come back next time..
next stage is open to increase agents and now more units available (20 those buyers from before could not buy are back)- but still same problem, 100 agents bring 80 buyers,, only 50 units.. rest 30 still not get, that before 20 if unlucky and not picked in draw still not get as well..
then last stage open to everyone.. but maybe at this stage, hot location, not good units left and prices very very high.....so not worth buy anymore.
this is simple example..project of course have 1000 units sometime to sell and there are thousand buyers
Deal Guru
Jun 7, 2005
10358 posts
1482 upvotes
Toronto
Question is who are those first group of agents. They must have some connection with the builder. Why do they want to release in stage ? Draw more attention due to shortage of supply ??

Also, I am curious. If the project is super hot, can the builder just sells directly to the public ? They don't even need agent to push and/or market the units.
xinplozion wrote: yes i just asked agent, he said very popular pre construction projects do this now.. no lines,
when project is released at first only few agents get to sell..they bring buyers and get to draw. example- 5 agents bring 30 buyers but only 10 units available so only 10 of 30 get to buy, rest 20..sorry come back next time..
next stage is open to increase agents and now more units available (20 those buyers from before could not buy are back)- but still same problem, 100 agents bring 80 buyers,, only 50 units.. rest 30 still not get, that before 20 if unlucky and not picked in draw still not get as well..
then last stage open to everyone.. but maybe at this stage, hot location, not good units left and prices very very high.....so not worth buy anymore.
this is simple example..project of course have 1000 units sometime to sell and there are thousand buyers
Sr. Member
Jun 18, 2004
793 posts
164 upvotes
Richmond Hill
rdx wrote: Thanks. You pretty confirm what I thought :) Based on connection, some offices will get floors from the builders' new release.

Yes, I understand agents from different firms will work together too (i.e. one has inventory, the other has clients). I am just curious, for those super hot projects, what is the incentive for the agent/office who are holding the inventory to share with other agents ? If clients are looking for the super high demand units every where, they will eventually find that office (through commercial) and buy directly from them instead of going through his/her agent (unless they have signed an agreement and have to use that agent).

Usually the benefit of other agents coming to us for our inventory, is that the more we sell under our name/broker name/brokerage name, the builder will favour us even more.
Let say agent A has a client and agent B has an unit. The deal will be completed in agent B's name, so it is agent B's sale in the eye of the builder. Then the agent B will execute a referral commission payout to agent A since the client has a buyer agreement with agent A. We typically set the payout between 2.5-3% (depending on our brokerage cut is). The fact that agent B gets to meet agent A's client at the time of signing, often the client knows agent B is the real deal and would seek agent B directly in the future.

But also because I have strong relation with another agent that can get me units, he avoids taking my clients because he doesn't want to lose me as a valuable partner as well. If you heard of a recent project called Midtown by Plaza, only 2-3 brokerage has been allocated units so far, and we are one of the brokerage with several floors (mostly high floors too). This really gives us an advantage in terms of pre-construction condos.

So I am glad I justified your thoughts. You are definitely thinking in the right direction. Agent with connection is most valuable now. For an investor, don't even think about which agent gets you the best incentive (ie cash back, discount, gift card) because you have to consider which agent can actually get you the unit instead.
Sr. Member
Jun 18, 2004
793 posts
164 upvotes
Richmond Hill
xinplozion wrote: yes i just asked agent, he said very popular pre construction projects do this now.. no lines,
when project is released at first only few agents get to sell..they bring buyers and get to draw. example- 5 agents bring 30 buyers but only 10 units available so only 10 of 30 get to buy, rest 20..sorry come back next time..
next stage is open to increase agents and now more units available (20 those buyers from before could not buy are back)- but still same problem, 100 agents bring 80 buyers,, only 50 units.. rest 30 still not get, that before 20 if unlucky and not picked in draw still not get as well..
then last stage open to everyone.. but maybe at this stage, hot location, not good units left and prices very very high.....so not worth buy anymore.
this is simple example..project of course have 1000 units sometime to sell and there are thousand buyers
The builder doesn't like to mess up broker relations, so if the few agents actually has to fight for particular units, then its not 1st stage anymore. More like 1.5 stage. Usually broker of records with strong relation with the builder and/or the sales team (baker, etc) will get specific unit allocated well in advance. So if builder is releasing 30 units to 3 brokers, each broker typically gets 10, maybe one gets a few less and the other a few more. But they never end up fighting over the same unit to be exact. The stage you referring to is when favourable "agents" (not broker of record --- brokerages) will get top priority over certain number of units.

There is an agent on Kijiji that always claim to have units and ask everyone to register or submit worksheet. In the end, I found out this agent actually knows a few agents from our office and always ask us for units. Speaking of that, this agent is a great person though. Works hard and would even take just 2% as long as the client was happy.
Newbie
Jan 26, 2017
9 posts
rdx wrote: Question is who are those first group of agents. They must have some connection with the builder. Why do they want to release in stage ? Draw more attention due to shortage of supply ??

Also, I am curious. If the project is super hot, can the builder just sells directly to the public ? They don't even need agent to push and/or market the units.
First group agents are those with good sales..they have sold many units in past and builder knows they have clients in hand. it is not really have some special connection but more reason is they have proven record so they get first stage release. Because builders make many projects, not just one. they keep records on which agents do good and then when new projects is out they contact top agents and give them the first units.
but like someone said up, be careful of agents say they are "VVIP', lots liars and misleading out there, to trick you because information limited, difficult to find which stage project is in.. you have to find agent you trust, tell you this stuff without lying or half truth-half lie. many many out there in my experience do this lying now. They say they "platinum" agent with good selections but trick you sign this, sign that...lock in to contract where you have to buy from them only! just be careful and have many information before buying.

answer your question as I understand: builder do this because they use these top condo agents to test market, so these first agents will normal always have good prices. example- pre con. project to push out 1000 units but what is price? what to put at? builder like speculator cannot be 100% sure. builder goal is to sell fast so they can have funds to start construction and know people buy.
so continue example...builder knows market price of this location 5 year from today is $500,000, they price at $550,000 (all just example, builder pricing structure I do not know exact..) and have top agent start pushing this, tell them only 2 floors can sold at this price.. agent then advertise to quick attract buyer and within 1 week sell all 2 floors at $550,000
ok now builder know their future building can definitely go $550,000 so they open up second stage, say 500 unit available, invite all agents, tell them price now $600,000.. agents all go now and sell. If location very good, immediately sold as you know...so then next time price goes up again! very crazy but market is this way now..

so now lets calculate.. 1000 unit to be sold, already say 800 sold, 200 left...builder now adjust price AGAIN! $650,000 for unit! some might buy at price some say no... builder now has maybe only 100 units left, now open to public.. come buy now but now selection is limited, prices high..you will see all good units taken, maybe only very high price ones left and only low floors.. (not lot people want floor 3 ect), this is why with pre con. going with agent is better. also as rfd i tell you many agent will give you commission rebate which is much savings, my friend also buy pre construction with agent and agent share commission with her so she save a lot (I dont know if some agent get mad if I say but I think this information should be easy to know..so many things hidden and made confusing just to make money. Example-buy a $400,000 condo, agent can give you$12,000!), even if you already did all research and know which condo you want and what price to pay, always go with agent.. don't go without agent! builder pays commission and some good agent will share it with you especially if you did all work, some agent will know this and is fair. always be careful who you choose though..many many people out there who can not be trusted.. some promise you commission verbal but break promise, other because of commission will recommend bad unit, bad investment.

also builder rarely sell to public directly, they always use agent to test market, smart way to do because either way they making money. this is pre construction condo though, if you want to buy pre construction property like detached,, semi-,, you can buy almost always buy from directly builder
Sr. Member
Jun 18, 2004
793 posts
164 upvotes
Richmond Hill
rdx wrote: Question is who are those first group of agents. They must have some connection with the builder. Why do they want to release in stage ? Draw more attention due to shortage of supply ??

Also, I am curious. If the project is super hot, can the builder just sells directly to the public ? They don't even need agent to push and/or market the units.
Builder and sales group want to make good relationship with certain brokerage brokers and some agents that do perform strongly on a consistent basis.
They are not selling in stages to control supply, they are selling in stages to keep different tier of broker/agents happy.
For example, if the builder wants to sell to every ethnicity, they would need to advertise through so many different cultural channels and in many different languages. Whereas, realtor will connect with their own ethnicity and will pitch the product to the client in a manner/language the client would be comfortable with. Secondly, realtor may be the bridge to foreign buyers or local investors through own resource, channel and expense.

Extra Note: Like inxplosion has mentioned, the builder knows which agent or broker performs, or which team or which brokerage performs. Usually its that same group of brokers from within the same brokerage.
Newbie
Jan 26, 2017
9 posts
hiphopforce wrote: The builder doesn't like to mess up broker relations, so if the few agents actually has to fight for particular units, then its not 1st stage anymore. More like 1.5 stage. Usually broker of records with strong relation with the builder and/or the sales team (baker, etc) will get specific unit allocated well in advance. So if builder is releasing 30 units to 3 brokers, each broker typically gets 10, maybe one gets a few less and the other a few more. But they never end up fighting over the same unit to be exact. The stage you referring to is when favourable "agents" (not broker of record --- brokerages) will get top priority over certain number of units.

There is an agent on Kijiji that always claim to have units and ask everyone to register or submit worksheet. In the end, I found out this agent actually knows a few agents from our office and always ask us for units. Speaking of that, this agent is a great person though. Works hard and would even take just 2% as long as the client was happy.
Yes what you said is true and clearer,, I did not mean agents fight over the unit, they get set amount unit each and each sells what he have
Member
Mar 9, 2009
448 posts
189 upvotes
Toronto
This industry is becoming worse than used car sales. It doesn't seem to me that RE agents don't have their clients' best interests in mind. There is so much little information for the buyer to review prior to committing to a sale.

I would caution any buyer who is in a situation where they are pressured to commit to a (very large) purchase to think twice.
Deal Guru
Jun 7, 2005
10358 posts
1482 upvotes
Toronto
$12,000 out of $400k purchase? That's 3% !!!
xinplozion wrote: First group agents are those with good sales..they have sold many units in past and builder knows they have clients in hand. it is not really have some special connection but more reason is they have proven record so they get first stage release. Because builders make many projects, not just one. they keep records on which agents do good and then when new projects is out they contact top agents and give them the first units.
but like someone said up, be careful of agents say they are "VVIP', lots liars and misleading out there, to trick you because information limited, difficult to find which stage project is in.. you have to find agent you trust, tell you this stuff without lying or half truth-half lie. many many out there in my experience do this lying now. They say they "platinum" agent with good selections but trick you sign this, sign that...lock in to contract where you have to buy from them only! just be careful and have many information before buying.

answer your question as I understand: builder do this because they use these top condo agents to test market, so these first agents will normal always have good prices. example- pre con. project to push out 1000 units but what is price? what to put at? builder like speculator cannot be 100% sure. builder goal is to sell fast so they can have funds to start construction and know people buy.
so continue example...builder knows market price of this location 5 year from today is $500,000, they price at $550,000 (all just example, builder pricing structure I do not know exact..) and have top agent start pushing this, tell them only 2 floors can sold at this price.. agent then advertise to quick attract buyer and within 1 week sell all 2 floors at $550,000
ok now builder know their future building can definitely go $550,000 so they open up second stage, say 500 unit available, invite all agents, tell them price now $600,000.. agents all go now and sell. If location very good, immediately sold as you know...so then next time price goes up again! very crazy but market is this way now..

so now lets calculate.. 1000 unit to be sold, already say 800 sold, 200 left...builder now adjust price AGAIN! $650,000 for unit! some might buy at price some say no... builder now has maybe only 100 units left, now open to public.. come buy now but now selection is limited, prices high..you will see all good units taken, maybe only very high price ones left and only low floors.. (not lot people want floor 3 ect), this is why with pre con. going with agent is better. also as rfd i tell you many agent will give you commission rebate which is much savings, my friend also buy pre construction with agent and agent share commission with her so she save a lot (I dont know if some agent get mad if I say but I think this information should be easy to know..so many things hidden and made confusing just to make money. Example-buy a $400,000 condo, agent can give you$12,000!), even if you already did all research and know which condo you want and what price to pay, always go with agent.. don't go without agent! builder pays commission and some good agent will share it with you especially if you did all work, some agent will know this and is fair. always be careful who you choose though..many many people out there who can not be trusted.. some promise you commission verbal but break promise, other because of commission will recommend bad unit, bad investment.

also builder rarely sell to public directly, they always use agent to test market, smart way to do because either way they making money. this is pre construction condo though, if you want to buy pre construction property like detached,, semi-,, you can buy almost always buy from directly builder
Member
Sep 23, 2011
298 posts
89 upvotes
Toronto
When selling a pre-con, builder sometimes advertises upper floors/penthouses' sale much later than units on lower floors (like months later).
Does it mean that they do not sell those upper units even at friends/VIP/Platinum sale as well?
And when they - at a later time - finally start selling those units, they go thru same stages again (friends/family, Platinum etc)?
Is that correct?
Sr. Member
Jun 18, 2004
793 posts
164 upvotes
Richmond Hill
vlad353 wrote: When selling a pre-con, builder sometimes advertises upper floors/penthouses' sale much later than units on lower floors (like months later).
Does it mean that they do not sell those upper units even at friends/VIP/Platinum sale as well?
And when they - at a later time - finally start selling those units, they go thru same stages again (friends/family, Platinum etc)?
Is that correct?
Correct.

Sometimes builder are still in process of applying to add a few extra floors (make more profit) and so the penthouse units sell last. They don't want someone thinking they bought the penthouse and then suddenly becomes 5 floors lower.

Also when buying condo make sure you do the math of $/sqft and not look at the price. Recently a lot of hot condo projects are selling at an extreme pace because it is actually priced below the resale price per sqft (so they are not selling at a future price like implosion has mentioned but there are certainly projects that has overly inflated their sale price and those tend to sell slower). A few projects we had platinum pricing was at about $675 to $725/sqft where as resale has hit 750 on low side to almost 825 on the high side.

That's why gaining access to these great projects, getting good floors, getting good layout is very critical to a successful investment. At the same time a lot of my clients ain't asking me for any kick back knowing that I will get them the best unit which would yield a better return than getting a few thousands. Able to secure a unit or a good unit is more important. This in turns makes the agent work harder for you and not pull a quick one on you. The old Chinese saying "successful investors never look at the small short term benefit but look at the greater long term gain". I am not saying as a buyer you don't deserve some goodies since there are some top agent competition out there. Personally I prefer to offer the first year management service free and throw in a nice gift card. Or no listing fee if you decide to sell it later, I will absorb the brokerage portion. Plus I offer those extras when the client least expect it. They get a nice unit and then a nice little surprise.

Our brokerage sells like hundreds of unit each development easily and for hot projects if the buyer doesn't want to buy with us we easily have another buyer in line to buy. Plus we are holding onto 10-15% of inventory. So unless you go with another top agent or brokerage, you won't likely get any unit and that same agent/brokerage will not likely offer you the cash back because they have a list of solid clients too.

Now for slower or higher priced projects, these builders have open sales to any of the 2nd tier or lower agents, these agent then will give you 1-2% cash back to make a few thousands off each deal better than nothing. Top agents and top brokerage normally moved on from these projects quickly.

Each year there is like dozens and dozens of projects and I personally only focus on the handful of good ones that I would only sell to my investors. For the odd ones if someone inquires about from me and wish to buy through me I often just offer them a few option ranging from cash back to added services depending on their need. Extreme hot projects, people are desperate for the best unit and never talk about freebies. That's my experience.
Deal Guru
Jun 7, 2005
10358 posts
1482 upvotes
Toronto
I just called an agent who is hosting a condo sale event, and I asked if they have inventory on hand, and specify the particular model I am looking for. They said they do but they are busy right now helping clients to file out worksheet. If they have inventory on hand, how come they are filling out worksheet again. I thought the worksheet process is to submit the list of units the buyers are interested and the agent/builder will advise what they have ??? I am confused.

Or they are actually collecting names of potential buyers again ?

And I asked if my agent can contact them. They said no, they only sell to clients directly, which is contradict to what someone mentioned earlier here where they want boost sales volume by working with other agents. Unless they are getting the units from other agent/brokerage already ?
Newbie
Jan 26, 2017
9 posts
rdx wrote: $12,000 out of $400k purchase? That's 3% !!!
Yes! lots of savings possible so make sure you have all information ;)
rdx wrote: I just called an agent who is hosting a condo sale event, and I asked if they have inventory on hand, and specify the particular model I am looking for. They said they do but they are busy right now helping clients to file out worksheet. If they have inventory on hand, how come they are filling out worksheet again. I thought the worksheet process is to submit the list of units the buyers are interested and the agent/builder will advise what they have ??? I am confused.

Or they are actually collecting names of potential buyers again ?

And I asked if my agent can contact them. They said no, they only sell to clients directly, which is contradict to what someone mentioned earlier here where they want boost sales volume by working with other agents. Unless they are getting the units from other agent/brokerage already ?
Like said, lot of trick and false informations in this industry, I do not know what is going on exact with situation you mentioned. You should ask your agent, listen to what says and is it trustable.
which condo you looking to buy? is agent you call say he is vvip?

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