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What are your experiences as a Black or Indigenous person in Canadian workforce?

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 3rd, 2020 12:16 pm
Deal Addict
Jul 13, 2009
4546 posts
2633 upvotes
Manatus wrote: So let's stop hiding behind that as though it's an infallible shield and that some kind of science has identified which candidate is going to be most valuable to the company in 5, 10, 20 years.
This +1. There is no science, we're humans. We're random, we sink we swim we grow. Companies don't want to put in the long term effort, just knee-jerk stop gap. Especially this year, actions plans that were rolled out immediately makes you question "why wasn't this done XX years ago???". They only doing something to save face, bandwagoning and like the Ralph Wiggum meme, "I'm helping!".
[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 31, 2017
4115 posts
2016 upvotes
Terabithia wrote: Did you read what op actually wanted?
Unless they are black or indigenous they don't count as 'minorities' :/
You’re whack. Take this crap to another thread. My primary focus is on Black and Indigenous, if you have a problem with that, that’s on you. I welcome any person of colour to speak on their experience too
Last edited by MyNameWasTaken on Jul 28th, 2020 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Dec 8, 2006
1397 posts
441 upvotes
I was a manager won’t name the place and I hired a bunch of people. For one role there was an internal applicant but I did not think they were suitable the person I hired was black (I’’ also black). Next thing I know I’m reported to HR as someone said I hired my friend even though I had no idea who this person was before. There was a investigation and I was cleared but just little things like this and I also have other stories.

Where I work now I’ve never had to face anything like that and it’s been great.
Deal Guru
Feb 29, 2008
13448 posts
9407 upvotes
Terabithia wrote: Same to you
You could have removed people of color from your title if your primary focus isn't anyone else
After all people who are not 'BI' are all privileged according to some of you. Doesn't have to be white
Where did you get that from? It's a topic about black and indigenous people who are some of the most under-represented communities in the corporate world. It's an issue that warrants a discussion.
Last edited by JayLove06 on Jul 28th, 2020 10:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Deal Guru
Feb 29, 2008
13448 posts
9407 upvotes
bhrm wrote: From good examples I have seen or helped manage, ensuring the process for promotions is based on merit, performance but also a decision based on consensus like a committee. Peer feedback is valuable.

Ensuring there are avenues to voice concerns and to take action, and to have consequences. Seeing someone underqualified/unqualified in a senior position regardless of their background is bad news for everyone. I've seen ships sink or morale plummet. There's nothing worse than being managed by an idiot.

Speak up and if no one is willing to listen and take action, time to move on to a company that appreciates your skills and experience. If you're not in a position where you can move on, focus on being constructive and base your concerns on logic. If idiot gets promoted not because of qualifications, then what was basis of promotion? Transparency and openness should be a part of company cultures and values.
The world we live in is not built that way. Yea, it's great to voice concerns but the world tends to work a certain way and it will take a lot of work to change it. Nepotism will always exist there's not much you can do about it.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 21, 2011
9547 posts
1948 upvotes
Edmonton
Does merit and the best fit for the company/position even have a place in the recruitment process anymore?
Deal Addict
Apr 14, 2017
1967 posts
615 upvotes
DT Calgary
clseea wrote: Does merit and the best fit for the company/position even have a place in the recruitment process anymore?
Very little. It's all about filling quotas nowadays.
Deal Addict
Jul 13, 2009
4546 posts
2633 upvotes
Terabithia wrote:
I never tried to overshadow racism in the workplace but from bhrm's comments even he was sometimes pressured to hire based on so called 'quotas' - live example.
They weren't 'quota' but 'preferences'. It happened more so when I was agency side and clients would make "requests"

When that happens, the recruiters/sourcers send this back to the account manager:
as our default response in disapproval. If there's client push back and they insist, we respectfully decline their business because we don't want to send our best candidates to that kind of environment, it comes back to us and our name. However it does signal that employers may use agencies as a filter unfortunately. If one agency declines fulfilling that request, other money hungry ones will pick it up. Doesn't happen often but agencies/search firms do "fire clients" if they're difficult or impossible to work with.

Also yes, as our workplaces become even more diverse in numbers I've seen examples and issues where cliques and groups form and exclude. A friend of mine quit a great job because every working session, conference call, and meetings were in Spanish but was not a requirement for the job, but they would provide some English translation. It wasn't an inclusive environment and it made working there difficult and uncomfortable, as people were not mindful that their behaviour was unwelcoming. This was a major Canadian company....
Deal Addict
Feb 4, 2010
4054 posts
2816 upvotes
bhrm wrote: From good examples I have seen or helped manage, ensuring the process for promotions is based on merit, performance but also a decision based on consensus like a committee. Peer feedback is valuable.

Ensuring there are avenues to voice concerns and to take action, and to have consequences. Seeing someone underqualified/unqualified in a senior position regardless of their background is bad news for everyone. I've seen ships sink or morale plummet. There's nothing worse than being managed by an idiot.

Speak up and if no one is willing to listen and take action, time to move on to a company that appreciates your skills and experience. If you're not in a position where you can move on, focus on being constructive and base your concerns on logic. If idiot gets promoted not because of qualifications, then what was basis of promotion? Transparency and openness should be a part of company cultures and values.
I was speaking more at a societal level but point taken and kudos to you on making individual impact and having integrity - too bad more people don't take the same approach.

Speaking up as a BIPOC isn't as easy as you make it though. Yes the person can leave but I think it's really unfortunate the employee has to leave (especially public sector jobs - there's a reason why there are so many incompetent idiots in the PS) but such is life.
Deal Guru
Feb 29, 2008
13448 posts
9407 upvotes
Terabithia wrote: First, research "Asian/Indian privilege" (yes, it's actually a thing and is pretty common terms recently due to the social movements) and you may get an idea what I meant.
I don't know how much you are accepting to that kind of thing (like, does it exist) but imo it segregates minorities of different backgrounds. I've seen these things thrown out randomly on different forums and of course only causes rage among different races. I genuinely don't believe it helps to ally with other people when you try to accuse them of "privileged".

I believe all social groups have their issues to deal with. While external issues (e.g racism and such) grant more exposure and discussion, the problem is people tend to neglect the internal problems within them - education for instance. That's out of scope for this post tho..

I never tried to overshadow racism in the workplace but from bhrm's comments even he was sometimes pressured to hire based on so called 'quotas' - live example. I wonder if some people actually prefer things handed to them rather than earning them? It's going from one extreme to another.

Peace
Please explain these quotas. Don't tiptoe. speak on it. I want examples. I can say that I don't see black people getting promoted to jobs they're unqualified for so maybe I'm not understanding you correctly. Just come out and speak on it.
Deal Addict
Jul 13, 2009
4546 posts
2633 upvotes
JayLove06 wrote: I can say that I don't see black people getting promoted to jobs they're unqualified for so maybe I'm not understanding you correctly. Just come out and speak on it.
I have one example but the person was not promoted because of their ethnicity but their false claim to speak French fluently. Government job, union protected. It was infuriating to have a supervisor have a talk with me about me being 5 minutes late, 45 minutes after they were late for the 4th time in the week and it was only my second. This person also avoided speaking French lol, it was worse than my own tourist level French. This person also avoided work pretty much, and there was a ton of resentment how someone can get promoted 4 pay grades up. There was also a manager who claimed to be Indigenous however my Indigenous coworkers found out that was false too, which upsets them too as it's disgusting how people take advantage of false status. I loved all my coworkers and the job, but public sector management was a different planet.
Deal Guru
Feb 29, 2008
13448 posts
9407 upvotes
Terabithia wrote: What do you want me to speak of when I was referencing from someone else, not being a hiring person msyelf? :facepalm: \
I did see black managers at work and they were very kind people. But at the same time I knew people who did not deserve their jobs - no idea how they got the job tho as again, I wasn't hiring.
Yet I'm sure you know company announcing employing certain races more is not news any longer. Ohanian, co-founder of Reddit even gave up his seat already for that, which I found is SILLY. Rather he donated to the impoverished community but it's his choice..

I would not make up anything to support my own arguments.

Thank bhrm for clearing up and, most of all, backing me up.
Sounded like you were saying black people were getting preferential treatment and getting jobs they were unqualified for to fill a quota. The whole "I give up my position for a POC" thing is stupid and basically spits in the face of these people. No one wants a handout. They just want to be treated equally and fairly. Unfortunately, that just doesn't happen. Management should reflect the community it services. And you don't need quotas to do that, just need to be open to everyone. Hire the best person for the job. But companies work around that and I think that's what this thread was about. Give a lot of lip service but behind the scenes it's the same ole BS.
Deal Addict
Feb 4, 2010
4054 posts
2816 upvotes
Manatus wrote: They should be, but often are not. One thing I hear a lot is that "we shouldn't focus on diversity because we hire/promote/retain the best people!". My response to that is, the best people come from all races, cultures, demographics. I don't think anyone would argue that people of a certain ethnicity are better or worse at a job. So the fact that diversity is even an issue means that argument doesn't hold water. If you were actually good at hiring, promoting and retaining the best people, you would already have a diverse workforce. The fact is that in general, companies are absolutely terrible at identifying the best people and treating them well. Maybe only slightly better than random chance. So let's stop hiding behind that as though it's an infallible shield and that some kind of science has identified which candidate is going to be most valuable to the company in 5, 10, 20 years.
Great post! In my experience/observation, terrible managers tend to hire terrible employees because they identify with people like them. I was just watching a LinkedIn course on Unconscious Bias that speaks to this. I'm tempted to take this quiz that was mentioned in the course: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
apnayloags wrote: I’ve said it before on this forum

In canada, you have to just do the stuff. Do not be efficient, dont try to rush or show efficiency or speed etc as you will become a “threat” to your coworkers or superiors
Do not rock thr boat, stay in the status quo
Anyone asking too many or competency related questions will be told to “calm down” and just accept whatever is provided.

Thats why there’s no interest or innovation or new discoveries or new stuff here. Look at cic they still run paperwork and 50 yr old procedures in the name of “control” and “govt regulations” and u cant do jack about it

This is why the smart/brilliant ones leave right away after they spend 3-4 yrs upgrade their degrees and get citizenship in that time. Then its dubai, usa, germany etc where they’re appreciated and wellpaid
In canada, u go in, do the min. shit you need to do for the day, and go home.No rocking the boat and no jumping above your “threshold” that has already been established when u were hired. People around you will clearly tell u whether or not you will move up, lolz
To be in the top you gotta be white
, preferably have british accent/roots/names and have the blue, grey or green eyes. Gotta reward britain no matter what by sending them money in contracts and business.
Completely agree with the whole post, especially the text in bold - this is the very essence of public sector and most of senior administration is white.

Out of curiosity how many job seekers answer the optional questions if they're in a minority group? I'm very weary of that sort of data collection - can be used for good but I tend to think it's used in a negative way (unintentionally and intentionally)
Last edited by hierophant on Jul 28th, 2020 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Feb 4, 2010
4054 posts
2816 upvotes
clseea wrote: Does merit and the best fit for the company/position even have a place in the recruitment process anymore?
Did it ever?
Deal Guru
Feb 29, 2008
13448 posts
9407 upvotes
Terabithia wrote: You are putting words I never said in my mouth.
No one even spits on your face.
Chill.

How about you explain Ohanian's behaviour?

Otherwise, please don't reply to me anymore.
I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say.

Ohanian's behaviour? What behaviour? How he asked to be replaced by a black candidate? They're going to just find some random black guy off the street? What this has to do with the OP is beyond me but maybe you'll explain it better.
Deal Addict
Apr 1, 2015
1534 posts
901 upvotes
NOYB
JayLove06 wrote: I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say.

Ohanian's behaviour? What behaviour? How he asked to be replaced by a black candidate? They're going to just find some random black guy off the street? What this has to do with the OP is beyond me but maybe you'll explain it better.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/05/reddit-co ... successor/

Have fun reading. Yes he DID ask to be replaced by a black candidate.
I would not say he was disingenuous but It was a very superficial move imo
You may think not.

I clicked on the thread as I am a poc as well, looking for find something that I can relate. Turns out I do not really agree with OP's some statements so I just gave my opinion of it. Then bhrm, as a recruiter actually made some inside comment and observations (some of which I noticed you turned a blind eye on btw prolly cause it does not fit into what you believe)
I did feel he was indifferent about this whole employment practice and mentioned something positive about diversity and such, like he did see minorities at workplace and he's confident things were getting better. It was then that OP started pushing the black and Indigenous equity thing, clearly cause things just does not go as the way she wants "I am not happy to see diversity of all at workplace but black and Indigineous"

I have no problem supporting against anti black racism but there is so much that I think needs reconsideration. People who advocate get super angry when you argue with them and don't use their senses.
*Zoomer + VoIP.ms + Lucky Mobile + Public Mobile user* SPEND WISELY

Self banning from the PRC sub, after a member with civility was banned from it without reasonable cause since 11/09/2020
Deal Addict
Feb 4, 2010
4054 posts
2816 upvotes
Terabithia wrote: https://nypost.com/2020/06/05/reddit-co ... successor/

Have fun reading. Yes he DID ask to be replaced by a black candidate.
I would not say he was disingenuous but It was a very superficial move imo
You may think not.

I clicked on the thread as I am a poc as well, looking for find something that I can relate. Turns out I do not really agree with OP's some statements so I just gave my opinion of it. Then bhrm, as a recruiter actually made some inside comment and observations (some of which I noticed you turned a blind eye on btw prolly cause it does not fit into what you believe)
I did feel he was indifferent about this whole employment practice and mentioned something positive about diversity and such, like he did see minorities at workplace and he's confident things were getting better. It was then that OP started pushing the black and Indigenous equity thing, clearly cause things just does not go as the way she wants "I am not happy to see diversity of all at workplace but black and Indigineous"

I have no problem supporting against anti black racism but there is so much that I think needs reconsideration. People who advocate get super angry when you argue with them and don't use their senses.
I have read all your posts in this thread - they seem to have nothing to do with the topic, in fact they make no sense to me ...it seems like you're picking a fight for no good reason (i.e. because OP didn't explicitly mention POC in the body of the thread even though it's in the title). I also have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to get across. Maybe you start your own thread if you're not happy with OP's. /end of story
Last edited by Redmask on Aug 2nd, 2020 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed personal attack from post.

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