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What are your experiences as a Black or Indigenous person in Canadian workforce?

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  • Aug 3rd, 2020 12:16 pm
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Feb 4, 2010
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Terabithia wrote: Sorry I didn't make my points across. English isn't my first language - not an excuse but I'm trying

I saw myself as liberal but I find myself far from some leftist. The current trend in social movement, I think, does nothing better than alienating people in north America. Employment is just one aspect of it.

I'm totally against employment based on preference - which the thread came to at some point. It is not fair to other races. There is more to that but I guess I'd end here.

I would not respond to this thread anymore as it does not do me or anyone else any good. We are just wasting our time after all.

If anything, I'm only questioning certain things liberal is pushing, which I mentioned above already.

Peace
You are of course entitled to your opinion, if you consider it a time waste then that's your prerogative but everyone posting on here is merely sharing their opinion.

"I'm totally against employment based on preference" if what you're saying is that you're against hiring people based solely on the fact of their race and gender even though they're not qualified (which is NOT clear at all if that's the case) that opinion also been shared by others in this thread (i.e you're not the lone wolf) in fact many agree with that.

Perhaps, it's a language barrier but you seem to be mis-understanding a lot of posts in this thread and seem to be reading things in posts that aren't there - e.g. your 3rd post in this thread. You were complaining that OP only mentioned black and indigenous, not POC, and you're POC and you seem to be very upset about that - you do realize that black and indigenous people are POC, right? You've also made some judgement and assumptions that certain posters are "leftist", no need to make this about left or right - that's neither here or there. I find that to be a very disingenuous defence/argument.

At any rate, it is very confusing to follow your thought-pattern however, I think a few of us are trying to understand you but you're taking this so personal and feel insulted/hurt akin to a child...not much we can do about that, that's on you. However, I think you're just going to keep arguing some non-argument without even trying to understand the other's POV so yeah maybe it's better you stop replying in the case.
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Terabithia wrote: And Idk what background you are from but how do you feel about Asian/Indian privilege thing. I was turned off immediately after reading something about it, Which you can find a lot about online

I don't think these are irrelevant because this thread is about employment regarding race, but I can be mistaken.

Not arguing. I'm genuinely asking as you gave me good feedback but you don't have to answer

If you still find me confusing maybe I will start my own thread :)
I honestly have never heard of this term before. I don't think it's that wide-spread, which tells me it's relatively new and probably meant to divert attention and further divide. I don't pay attention to crap like that because it just feeds into negativity, which was the intended goal. So I'm unclear why you're so fixated on that and where you keep hearing this term from as it's not mainstream - perhaps it's the sources you pay most attention to?
Last edited by hierophant on Jul 29th, 2020 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hierophant wrote: Do share. When, where, how?
Over the years. Various places. I'm not sure what you mean by how....merit based selection criteria.
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clseea wrote: Over the years. Various places. I'm not sure what you mean by how....merit based selection criteria.
Are you a white male perhaps?
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hierophant wrote: I honestly have never heard of this term before. I don't think it's that wide-spread, which tells me it's relatively new and probably meant to divert attention and further divide. I don't pay attention to crap like that because it just feeds into negativity, which was the intended goal. So I'm unclear why you're so fixated on that and where you keep hearing this term from as it's not mainstream - perhaps it's the sources you pay most attention to?
It actually showed up on Instagram a few times as I was randomly browsing regarding blm. One even went out saying all Asians were guilty of anti black racism. Their intention was to support blm

Nvm
End of discussion
Thanks
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Feb 29, 2008
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Terabithia wrote: It actually showed up on Instagram a few times as I was randomly browsing regarding blm. One even went out saying all Asians were guilty of anti black racism. Their intention was to support blm

Nvm
End of discussion
Thanks
Can you just make your point? I’m still confused . What are you getting at? You want us to address comments that other people have made outside the thread and topic?
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JayLove06 wrote: Can you just make your point? I’m still confused . What are you getting at? You want us to address comments that other people have made outside the thread and topic?
I don't know why I should reply to you when you accused me of things I never said or thought about as well as ignoring some of my points.

But I'll try to summarize again
I don't approve of the bipoc term and anything associated with it (white oppression) . I can feel why some white people get upset when I first learnt that I, as a minority, can be privileged too as we are called 'model minority. It divides us, black, white, brown or yellow

Hiring solely based on gender and race is toxic and does not help equity of a race at the end of the day. Hire someone with the best merits instead of looking to fulfill diversity requirements

That's it.

Won't reply.
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Terabithia wrote: I don't know why I should reply to you when you accused me of things I never said or thought about as well as ignoring some of my points.

But I'll try to summarize again
I don't approve of the bipoc term and anything associated with it (white oppression) . I can feel why some white people get upset when I first learnt that I, as a minority, can be privileged too as we are called 'model minority. It divides us, black, white, brown or yellow

Hiring solely based on gender and race is toxic and does not help equity of a race at the end of the day. Hire someone with the best merits instead of looking to fulfill diversity requirements

That's it.

Won't reply.

Hmmm. OK. Finally pulled it out of you. No need to reply. My earlier suspicions have been confirmed. Learn to properly articulate your point. Getting frustrated with people because you did a poor job of articulating what you were trying to say does not really invite much discussion.

A non-black or indigenous person really shouldn’t deny the experiences of those groups just like those groups shouldn’t deny the experiences of other groups. Institutionalized racism is very real but some refuse to acknowledge it or the fact that it impacts certain groups differently. Prime minister likes to dress up in black face. Canadians have pretty much agreed that this kind of nonsense is acceptable. Speaks volumes of the current corporate climate.
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JayLove06 wrote: Hmmm. OK. Finally pulled it out of you. No need to reply. My earlier suspicions have been confirmed. Learn to properly articulate your point. Getting frustrated with people because you did a poor job of articulating what you were trying to say does not really invite much discussion.

A non-black or indigenous person really shouldn’t deny the experiences of those groups just like those groups shouldn’t deny the experiences of other groups. Institutionalized racism is very real but some refuse to acknowledge it or the fact that it impacts certain groups differently. Prime minister likes to dress up in black face. Canadians have pretty much agreed that this kind of nonsense is acceptable. Speaks volumes of the current corporate climate.
Pretty much says, yes, it is ok. Just don't let people figure it out and all is good. But that is the same for any power structure as they will do whatever is required to keep things the same for their benefit.

With that said, I believe that over time, things will be different. As people have more experience growing up with others who are "different" from them, they will view others as individuals rather than as a group that is "different". At least that is my hope.
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Feb 4, 2010
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Terabithia wrote: I don't know why I should reply to you when you accused me of things I never said or thought about as well as ignoring some of my points.
Then why are you? You keep saying that but you still do.
But I'll try to summarize again
I don't approve of the bipoc term and anything associated with it (white oppression) . I can feel why some white people get upset when I first learnt that I, as a minority, can be privileged too as we are called 'model minority. It divides us, black, white, brown or yellow

Hiring solely based on gender and race is toxic and does not help equity of a race at the end of the day. Hire someone with the best merits instead of looking to fulfill diversity requirements

That's it.

Won't reply.
Interesting. So as a POC you view equity as white oppression? There are plenty of people on here whose primary language is something other than English and I have never gotten the impression that they're unable to understand or communicate their position effectively. I really don't think your lack of understanding comes from language barrier issues - it really does seem like you have ulterior motives. However, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and take what you say at face value. On that basis, people like you are extremely dangerous because you don't take the time to actually understand and learn the issue (inquire, ask questions, reflect). Instead, you make assumptions based on your bias, world views, etc. you mis-interpret information (whether intentionally or unintentionally I'm not sure) and then spread false narrative undermining the actual topic/objective. This is exactly how "fake news", rumours and hate starts - which is what people like you are dangerous. Your interaction in this thread has demonstrated this clearly. If some white people are upset that equity is being advocated for then they are like you, unable to grasp the actual issue and its historical roots.
Last edited by hierophant on Jul 29th, 2020 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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It's a bit of a tough situation. On one hand, you could argue for diversity vs meritocracy, but you could also argue that many companies' "values" when it comes to leadership are traits which may favor one gender/race/culture over another.

For example, in most western companies, you'll value assertiveness, and decisiveness as good traits for leadership, but those may be traits inherently more common amongst white men, either by culture/upbringing or by representative association. This is why there was that whole diversity initiative in the 90-2000s around tech companies, because there was a heavy emphasis on "culture" for those companies (due to all them fancy perks), but "culture" was being used as a euphemism for "I want people who look, think and act like the founders".

Of course, personality and work ethic traits are things which can be learned and are not specific to any race/gender/culture, but they do statistically appear more often in some demographics than others and our emphasis on those traits because of the work culture being mostly founded by middle aged white guys in North America/Europe may play a role in who we hire and who we promote.
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The first time I ever heard the term BIPOC was on July 5 2020. I know because I was texting a friend.

I am part of it, but don't care for it, just another label. I see that its usage is exploding on the internet. People just love to say BIPOC , BIPOC , BIPOC on every forum...

And this is my contribution to this thread.
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motomondo wrote: The first time I ever heard the term BIPOC was on July 5 2020. I know because I was texting a friend.

I am part of it, but don't care for it, just another label. I see that its usage is exploding on the internet. People just love to say BIPOC , BIPOC , BIPOC on every forum...

And this is my contribution to this thread.
Same never heard of BIPOC until after George Flyod - I actually had to Google it. I'm thinking it might have originated fairly recently (i.e. this summer)? I don't care for the term either and have never liked POC either because all humans are of colour. Why do we need to categorize and label? What difference does it make? None. These are labels rooted in colonialism and racism that perpetuate in today's society.

Moreover, these terms are often not created by the very groups who are marginalized, they're generally by people from a position of privilege (often with a saviour complex IMO). For example, Indigenous peoples never came up with the idea of referring to themselves as Aboriginal and do not like it. From what I read they did not come up with Indigenous either but have accepted it. I've read this from a few different sources, so I'm hoping there's some validity to this.

A while back, I attended a training workshop with anti-oppression component, which ironically was developed and delivered by white women (without any feedback from other groups). Basically the trainer stated which groups ARE oppressed and if they fit into more than one of these groups the more oppressed they are (e.g. non-Christian gay, woman of colour with an accent and a physical disability would be in the most oppressed group). While that may very well be true in many/most cases, but it wasn't a question of COULD they be oppressed but they WERE oppressed. The facilitator was saying she IS oppressed - deciding for her. There was an East Asian women in the group who referred to herself as "Oriental" and all the white people gasped in horror and told her she should not be using the word and essentially reprimanded her. She clearly was taken aback and confused, and apologized. I will never forget that. I was so disturbed by the responses. This is the very essence of white privilege, that often white people come up with derogatory labels, and decide on their own terms when and how it's inappropriate to use that terms without actually talking to those who are actually impacted, but for whatever reason the group(s) in question get blamed (e.g. over-sensitive, political-correctness).
[OP]
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I've updated the title.

Edit: to reflect Black and Indigenous people but anyone else is free to share
Last edited by MyNameWasTaken on Jul 29th, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nov 22, 2017
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I will stick with black people for now since that's what the topic is about. Do you guys think black people face racial prejudice from other minority groups? I would argue that certain minorities in Canada are a lot more conservative than non recent immigrant caucasians, and a lot more discriminatory in the workplace. You are likely to find a lot of discriminatory practices in settlements with large minority groups.

But yes in general "diversity" is a sham when it comes to who has the actual control of a company. I think this is to be expected though.
[OP]
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Extrahard wrote: I will stick with black people for now since that's what the topic is about. Do you guys think black people face racial prejudice from other minority groups? I would argue that certain minorities in Canada are a lot more conservative than non recent immigrant caucasians, and a lot more discriminatory in the workplace. You are likely to find a lot of discriminatory practices in settlements with large minority groups.

But yes in general "diversity" is a sham when it comes to who has the actual control of a company. I think this is to be expected though.
Yes. Not until they are on the other end of the spectrum do they want to unite and fight in my experience. It's self-serving. I do believe it's in part due to ignorance and environment. Where I grew up their was a ton of different races, so I was always accustomed to their culture, and respected it. However, when it comes to Blackness, I've always had others shape my experience based on what they saw on tv or heard through stereotypes and racism (usually starts in the home). My home was always tolerant to respect and treat everyone fairly. Similar thing happened to Muslims after 9/11. However, a Dylan Wolf or Alexandre Bissonnette can go and shoot up a building of innocent lives, and that projection is not placed on all white people (which it should not); and in some twisted ways, the families are encouraged to forgive (I understand forgiveness, but it's pushed so heavily and quickly).

To take it back to the workplace, I had group assignments where their were other races, and everyone is quick to team up with the Asian or white person. We then go on to present, and I tend to be a stand out (while involving my team), and then others get up there and struggle or become frantic. In part, I blame it also to ignorance in hiring and achieving equity. Many people believe that there are just quotas for Black people and they are undeserving which is further from the truth. Similar to, "you can read/write well." Well, no crap I'm working in a professional setting what do you expect? Either a) low expectations of me from the start or b) you let mediocrity thrive in your company (and wonder why vendors/customers get mad), that you're genuinely surprised when a Black person exceeds. Corporate Canada can only do so much (and they can also do so much more), and I also expect people to educate themselves (outside of social media) outside of work too.

Lastly, I'm not too sensitive when it comes overall to race and jokes in the workplace. It also depends on context and my relationship with you. If we can all share a laugh about a certain custom within our culture or community, without bigotry, that's cool with me. It's when it becomes too much, too vile, or just one-sided vitriol is when I check out. If you don't understand something and ask, that's cool. If you don't understand, ask, and then refute the answer and continue not to listen and spread nonsense, then it becomes hate.
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MyNameWasTaken wrote: Lastly, I'm not too sensitive when it comes overall to race and jokes in the workplace. It also depends on context and my relationship with you. If we can all share a laugh about a certain custom within our culture or community, without bigotry, that's cool with me. It's when it becomes too much, too vile, or just one-sided vitriol is when I check out. If you don't understand something and ask, that's cool. If you don't understand, ask, and then refute the answer and continue not to listen and spread nonsense, then it becomes hate.
Jokes are jokes until you run into someone who meant what they said, then it gets scary real fast. I exercise utmost caution whom I joke with, to ensure no one is offended and everyone understands context.

But it is honestly tons of fun if your social circle at work is really diverse and everyone shares. I've learned about Panda Cheese commercials, Russian stand up comedians, and Bermuda scooter accident videos.

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