Real Estate

Where in the Golden Horseshoe have prices doubled in 4 years and are up 22.3% in the last year?

  • Last Updated:
  • Apr 5th, 2022 4:46 pm
26 replies
[OP]
Member
Sep 10, 2010
395 posts
99 upvotes
St Catharines
Sorry-that should have been 4.5 years:)
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Apr 5, 2013
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keenland
hopium wrote: Sorry-that should have been 4.5 years:)
yes and you can buy a cheap house in Chatham too...but most dont want to invest there, as both towns are in reality, on the same level as a trailer park,,,but to each his own
Sr. Member
Sep 16, 2009
685 posts
475 upvotes
hopium wrote: Sorry-that should have been 4.5 years:)
Quite incredible. The doubling has been more like in 9-10 yrs in the rest of GTA. Although whats the growth been in Niagara over the same time? I feel like the trajectory should have been similarly flat to steady increase from 2010 - 2015/16 and then a sharp increase. Thats at least true for GTA.
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Jun 13, 2009
1067 posts
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Toronto
oasis2002 wrote: Quite incredible. The doubling has been more like in 9-10 yrs in the rest of GTA. Although whats the growth been in Niagara over the same time? I feel like the trajectory should have been similarly flat to steady increase from 2010 - 2015/16 and then a sharp increase. Thats at least true for GTA.
Two factors I think; people getting priced out of the GTA and having to look farther; and #2, people cashing out of the GTA, and buying similar/larger homes without a mortgage.

I was seriously considering this myself around 2014ish; but decided against it because a 3hr daily commute would have killed me....and now we can work from home for the foreseeable future. Life is funny sometimes Disappointed But Relieved Face
Last edited by Jruuu on Jul 27th, 2020 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Member
Jun 1, 2019
251 posts
334 upvotes
cardguy wrote: yes and you can buy a cheap house in Chatham too...but most dont want to invest there, as both towns are in reality, on the same level as a trailer park,,,but to each his own
Niagara's not a town. Thx for your insightful post.
I grew up in Toronto [downtown], have worked in Markham, moved to Niagara. All 3 have their pro's and con's, but a trailer park Niagara is not.
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Niagara / Hamilton-Burlington
[OP]
Member
Sep 10, 2010
395 posts
99 upvotes
St Catharines
Having three 400 series hwys in St Catharines area( a city of about 135,000 )is a real bonus for getting around.(yes we still have traffic jams for accidents&construction)
Sr. Member
Nov 22, 2017
931 posts
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I definitely think investors in the golden horshoe will find better value in these regions, Niagara-St. Catherines, London, and Windsor. The question is will there be enough people to fill long term rentals for investors? The answer relies on what public and private employers do to create employment to incentivize people to move from the GTA region. Windsor is the only city out of the 3 that has some diversity in employment, with the 5+ billion dollar bridge and 1+ billion dollar hospital being built, not to mention the billion dollar car assembly plant, logistic companies, and its university. I think for investors its a much better opportunity than Niagara.
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Apr 5, 2013
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keenland
Tailwind72 wrote: Niagara's not a town. Thx for your insightful post.
I grew up in Toronto [downtown], have worked in Markham, moved to Niagara. All 3 have their pro's and con's, but a trailer park Niagara is not.
yea ok...keep telling yourself that...(says the local realtor)
[OP]
Member
Sep 10, 2010
395 posts
99 upvotes
St Catharines
If wfh(work from home) takes off due to its many advantages for all involved,Niagara may be ideally situated to provide that maturing group of commuters and their families with a better and more desirable quality of life and yet be within once or twice a week distance from the office.Industry and government would save huge amounts of money by not having to continually build and maintain office ,road and mass transit infrastructure.The environment would be huge winner also not having to pave over large swaths of valuable land and it would provide a cleaner environment by reducing vehicles on the road for that daily rush hour that is required to send everyone to a centralized work area.
I agree that there are always jobs that require a physical presence but many would flow to where people wfh to provide the required services at a much lower cost.
I'm just not sure if all involved are ready to take advantage of our new technologies to make it happen as change is difficult.
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Apr 5, 2013
5810 posts
3009 upvotes
keenland
Tailwind72 wrote: Niagara's not a town. Thx for your insightful post.
I grew up in Toronto [downtown], have worked in Markham, moved to Niagara. All 3 have their pro's and con's, but a trailer park Niagara is not.
yes you are right...its not a town...its a municipality made up of a bunch of trailer parks...Welland.niagara thorold are all a cesspool of trash...NOTL is a bit nicer...but that 25 minutes to QEW makes it, well,..Uxbridge like in location....Oshawa is a lot closer
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Jan 26, 2016
2227 posts
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Toronto, ON
hopium wrote: If wfh(work from home) takes off due to its many advantages for all involved,Niagara may be ideally situated to provide that maturing group of commuters and their families with a better and more desirable quality of life and yet be within once or twice a week distance from the office.Industry and government would save huge amounts of money by not having to continually build and maintain office ,road and mass transit infrastructure.The environment would be huge winner also not having to pave over large swaths of valuable land and it would provide a cleaner environment by reducing vehicles on the road for that daily rush hour that is required to send everyone to a centralized work area.
I agree that there are always jobs that require a physical presence but many would flow to where people wfh to provide the required services at a much lower cost.
I'm just not sure if all involved are ready to take advantage of our new technologies to make it happen as change is difficult.
Or you can offshore the jobs to Bangladesh and save even more $$$.
Deal Addict
Jan 12, 2017
1633 posts
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If WFH does take off, why would anyone buy where prices have already 'Doubled in 4 years', especially when Southern Ontario has so many alternatives? Buying in Niagara would actually be pretty foolish.

If WFH doesn't take off, you better hope your commute is doable or have cash to burn.
hopium wrote: If wfh(work from home) takes off due to its many advantages for all involved,Niagara may be ideally situated to provide that maturing group of commuters and their families with a better and more desirable quality of life and yet be within once or twice a week distance from the office.Industry and government would save huge amounts of money by not having to continually build and maintain office ,road and mass transit infrastructure.The environment would be huge winner also not having to pave over large swaths of valuable land and it would provide a cleaner environment by reducing vehicles on the road for that daily rush hour that is required to send everyone to a centralized work area.
I agree that there are always jobs that require a physical presence but many would flow to where people wfh to provide the required services at a much lower cost.
I'm just not sure if all involved are ready to take advantage of our new technologies to make it happen as change is difficult.
Deal Guru
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Sep 14, 2003
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Mississauga
I'm guessing there are more than a few spots outside the GTA that fall into the same boat. As mentioned previously - people are getting frozen out of the GTA market due to the insane prices. Older folks are cashing out at record highs and moving out of the area (like Niagara, Ottawa, shore of Lake Erie, etc.) where the prices haven't appreciated that much. That, in turn, drives demand up in those areas, and the prices skyrocket.

I remember looking at houses in Waterloo a few years ago, and you could get a nice detached four bedroom in a nice area for about $375. The same area is now $600 and rising. It's not like there's tons of industry that's flying into the area - so it's not like people are clamoring to get into KW, but people are moving their attention out of the GTA.
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Everyone talks about WFH leading to some exodus from the big city.

But what about the option to stay put? All of a sudden, the huge negative of the city (long commute times and busy traffic) doesn't exist. So... people why wouldn't you want to stay closer to your family and bubble for support and child care.
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poorwingman wrote: Everyone talks about WFH leading to some exodus from the big city.

But what about the option to stay put? All of a sudden, the huge negative of the city (long commute times and busy traffic) doesn't exist. So... people why wouldn't you want to stay closer to your family and bubble for support and child care.
Has Toronto's traffic suddenly disappeared??? This is news to me.

For those dependent on Toronto-area family for child care, sure, it makes sense to stay put. For some others, high density, low-square-foot living may have become somewhat less appealing in these past 4 months.

I've lived in Toronto for many years and love it for what it is, but I'm quite thankful for not having to live there during Covid.
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Niagara / Hamilton-Burlington
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Dec 12, 2011
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Toronto
I have friends that are my age (late 30s) that are starting to look at the positives of living an hour plus away from Toronto, in places like Niagara, burlington, kitchener, waterloo. They talk about the slower paced life out there, and they are thinking bout selling their toronto condos and buy a housing with some land. A lot of them are now working from home maybe permanently. However, let me point out that if they COULD afford a house in Toronto, they would NOT be leaving. They know the only possible way they can get into the detached market is by moving far away so now in their head, they rationalize that life wouldnt be so bad in a small town, and that life would be actually be more enjoyable. Well, the only people that aren't thinking this way are the ones that already own houses in Toronto. We know Toronto is an amazing city and have no need to be out in the boonies. I have family that owns rental properties in niagara but they wouldnt consider moving there any time soon.
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May 7, 2019
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I think a huge part that no one is talking to is that for cash flow investors, toronto just does not work anymore.

There were periods where it did but for about a year a lot of people have avoided it. Most of these investors are going outside of the GTA to get the CF and going to markets such as London, Niagara and Windsor, while still living in the GTA themselves.

I invest quite heavily in Windsor (after acquiring a few properties in Toronto early on) and I am seeing the impact Toronto investors are having on the Windsor market.

but like any great run, markets cool at some point. As prices jump in those markets and there are no more stimulants to increase rent prices, curious to see what happens...
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Jul 15, 2020
69 posts
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mt251992 wrote: I think a huge part that no one is talking to is that for cash flow investors, toronto just does not work anymore.

There were periods where it did but for about a year a lot of people have avoided it. Most of these investors are going outside of the GTA to get the CF and going to markets such as London, Niagara and Windsor, while still living in the GTA themselves.

I invest quite heavily in Windsor (after acquiring a few properties in Toronto early on) and I am seeing the impact Toronto investors are having on the Windsor market.

but like any great run, markets cool at some point. As prices jump in those markets and there are no more stimulants to increase rent prices, curious to see what happens...
I am interested in KW area but prices are already high so tight on cashflow. Windsor is too far for me to cover,,, how do you do that! Its too much driving :(
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Mar 2, 2017
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Toronto/Markham
Cashflow hasn't been a consideration for any investor for the last 5 years, everyone "investing" is doing so primarily for appreciation/speculation, that's it. At the very least it's an inflation hedge and an alternative asset class to park money opposed to a bank which guarantees deposits only up to a 100k.

It has made it very difficult to pick properties in the traditional sense, with that being said I am personally of the opinion I'd still rather park cash in the GTA even at negative cashflow (provided cash covers carrying costs I am ok with paying down equity for the right property) than areas that are highly susceptible to fluctuation due to micro/macro econ factors, places like Windsor or Hamilton carry too much downside risk for my liking.

This is not to say Hamilton/Windsor etc are bad spots to invest, quite the contrary, however history has proven that when times are good, times are good, but when times are bad these types of places don't have the price resilience that the GTA has.
Last edited by RichmondCA on Jul 29th, 2020 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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