Automotive

Why do dealers insist to negotiate after tax prices and not pre??

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 20th, 2019 10:06 pm
[OP]
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
314 posts
354 upvotes
Nunavut

Why do dealers insist to negotiate after tax prices and not pre??

These pricks turn into calculator magicians and always come up with some absurd numbers, and refuse to negotiate unless i put in an offer right now? What the * does that mean?? I guess since most people just pay msrp they don't need to deal
28 replies
Deal Expert
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Jul 30, 2007
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Toronto
If you have done your homework before heading into the dealership, then you can simply tell them your offering figure OTR and let them work their numbers backward. If they are not interested in yours, then just go to another dealer ... unless that is the only dealer in your region, then you are likely have to fight it out with them.
Deal Addict
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Nov 28, 2007
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Whitehorse, YT
booblehead wrote: If you have done your homework before heading into the dealership, then you can simply tell them your offering figure OTR and let them work their numbers backward. If they are not interested in yours, then just go to another dealer ... unless that is the only dealer in your region, then you are likely have to fight it out with them.
+1
Just take charge of the pricing by making an offer and letting them decide what to do.
Deal Addict
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Jul 8, 2010
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Ontario
Idea is the following : if you agree with after-tax price, they can go back and add some shady items that you may not be able to remove. For example, maybe some unknown/hidden manufacturer rebate that must be applied can be offset with dealer package/items that are way overpriced. Because you already agreed with the final price, they will not remove those...
Deal Fanatic
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Jul 26, 2007
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Isostar wrote: Idea is the following : if you agree with after-tax price, they can go back and add some shady items that you may not be able to remove. For example, maybe some unknown/hidden manufacturer rebate that must be applied can be offset with dealer package/items that are way overpriced. Because you already agreed with the final price, they will not remove those...
If you are not unsure and can not do your homework at home, go to 2nd dealer of choice(or 1st) and ask lot of questions about factory rebates, dealer discounts, current month's promotion. Make sure to double check all the numbers from unhaggle.

Now you have everything to negotiate from your dealership of choice.
Deal Addict
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Dec 21, 2013
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GTA
Hindustunna wrote: These pricks turn into calculator magicians and always come up with some absurd numbers, and refuse to negotiate unless i put in an offer right now? What the fuk does that mean?? I guess since most people just pay msrp they don't need to deal
I had a strange experience last night; I went in to a dealership with the intention of possibly buying a car.
The salesman kept asking me for what price I would pay for the car. So I told him, and then he keeps coming back and saying "no, we can't do that" but wouldn't give me a price they were willing to do.
Then has the nerve to ask me for a $500 "refundable" deposit if they were to start offering discounts... under the understanding that I would buy the car right there and then.

So strange. So strange.

I am really pulling for Tesla and their sales model to work.
Deal Guru
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Jan 9, 2011
11452 posts
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Vancouver
Hindustunna wrote: These pricks turn into calculator magicians and always come up with some absurd numbers, and refuse to negotiate unless i put in an offer right now? What the fuk does that mean?? I guess since most people just pay msrp they don't need to deal
I play the calculator trick on them.I don't do this right away, I wait until I've already haggled them down to their "final offer". Then I pull out a calculator and pretend to do some calculations, arrive a a number, show it to them, and tell them that this is how much over my budget their asking price is. Works wonders at getting them to go below their "final offer". Ended up paying $9,990 on a car that was priced at $13,990.
[OP]
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
314 posts
354 upvotes
Nunavut
Marzipan wrote: +1
Just take charge of the pricing by making an offer and letting them decide what to do.
I did, they act like the price is crazy or impossible, according to my own calculator magic i leave them approx 1500 for themselves. Today, the guy quoted me 60k tax for a lexus nx, wouldnt negotiate further.. thought my offer for 46 before tax was nuts .. anyways i ended up finding one for 46.. only one dealer agreed to it out of like 10

I was just thinking to myself, i'm sure most people do not want to go through the headache of negotiating, and guys like this must screw people over for 7-8k easy

lol.. guy even had a kill sheet with all these suckers giving him 5 stars
Deal Fanatic
Feb 4, 2015
6888 posts
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Canada, Eh!!
Isostar wrote: Idea is the following : if you agree with after-tax price, they can go back and add some shady items that you may not be able to remove. For example, maybe some unknown/hidden manufacturer rebate that must be applied can be offset with dealer package/items that are way overpriced. Because you already agreed with the final price, they will not remove those...
Not sure I follow.

If did research and know what willing to pay for a particular trim then dealership can itemize as want... as long as bottom price is what you agreed to. Tax is not negotiable.

Perhaps I dd not understand post??

Note: Some/all insurance companies pay insurance payout based on price for vehicle less admin or similar fees so make sure not extreme admin fee offset by discount on msrp.
.......
July 13, 2017 to October 25, 2018: BOC raised rates 5 times and MCAP raised its prime rate next day each time.

2020: BOC dropped rates 3 times and MCAP waited and waited to drop its prime rate to include all 3 drops.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
27376 posts
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Montreal
Pull out your phone and use the calculator. You can work back from the post tax price.
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Aug 22, 2011
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Center of Universe
Hindustunna wrote: I did, they act like the price is crazy or impossible, according to my own calculator magic i leave them approx 1500 for themselves. Today, the guy quoted me 60k tax for a lexus nx, wouldnt negotiate further.. thought my offer for 46 before tax was nuts .. anyways i ended up finding one for 46.. only one dealer agreed to it out of like 10

I was just thinking to myself, i'm sure most people do not want to go through the headache of negotiating, and guys like this must screw people over for 7-8k easy

lol.. guy even had a kill sheet with all these suckers giving him 5 stars
Pics, or it didn't happen.
[OP]
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
314 posts
354 upvotes
Nunavut
vkizzle wrote: Pics, or it didn't happen.
? thats just 1000 over invoice, another guy offered 42 for a 2019 fsport
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
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Center of Universe
Hindustunna wrote: ? thats just 1000 over invoice, another guy offered 42 for a 2019 fsport
Cash?
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
35697 posts
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Center of Universe
Hindustunna wrote: ya
Ah, that was the missing detail.
Lexus factory cash promo plus delivery credit.
Member
Aug 19, 2008
297 posts
159 upvotes
Hindustunna wrote: These pricks turn into calculator magicians and always come up with some absurd numbers, and refuse to negotiate unless i put in an offer right now? What the fuk does that mean?? I guess since most people just pay msrp they don't need to deal
Go in ready to take charge... find out the dealer price, find out what they have to add on and have no control over. That will be their ‘break even’..it’s very empowering to know that. Then you just focus on the agent and how much their time is worth to you and how much you are comfortable paying over their break even point.
You have to change the momentum early in that discussion .. they are pros, very very good at reading a person and reading if you are emotionally attached to the thought getting that new car that day.. don’t be.
Above all, be ready to leave respectfully, don’t get upset, just be like ‘okay thanks for your time, here’s my number or if you change your mind, thanks ’ and walk out - both of my last purchased were sealed at that point, genuine respect for each other, even sharing some laughs and they caved as I was packing up to leave respectfully. If it doesn’t work, email around to other dealerships and repeat.
Member
Nov 17, 2016
288 posts
177 upvotes
Hindustunna wrote: I did, they act like the price is crazy or impossible, according to my own calculator magic i leave them approx 1500 for themselves. Today, the guy quoted me 60k tax for a lexus nx, wouldnt negotiate further.. thought my offer for 46 before tax was nuts .. anyways i ended up finding one for 46.. only one dealer agreed to it out of like 10

I was just thinking to myself, i'm sure most people do not want to go through the headache of negotiating, and guys like this must screw people over for 7-8k easy

lol.. guy even had a kill sheet with all these suckers giving him 5 stars
Did you get 2019 or 2020 model? Any packages? I am assuming this is not hybrid, right?
[OP]
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
314 posts
354 upvotes
Nunavut
Vi20161128 wrote: Did you get 2019 or 2020 model? Any packages? I am assuming this is not hybrid, right?
I went with 2020 fsport 1 for 46, he also offered me 42 for a 2019 fsport1 but in dark grey, i'm around toronto. but id wait if you can, since theyll be doing a refresh for 2021
Banned
Mar 11, 2016
2081 posts
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for every diligent RFDer type with a calculator there are 3 customers that will buy the vehicle based upon monthly payment or OTR confusing price without questioning the rip-off/calculator magic they are signing for
Member
Nov 17, 2016
288 posts
177 upvotes
Hindustunna wrote: I went with 2020 fsport 1 for 46, he also offered me 42 for a 2019 fsport1 but in dark grey, i'm around toronto. but id wait if you can, since theyll be doing a refresh for 2021
Thank you! Yes, I am waiting for MY 2021. For this price, did you have to pay any dealer admin fees? In Ontario, if you paid 46k before taxes, OTR price would have been 54,668.57$. Did you pay that amount?

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