Automotive

Why would anyone go for the "M2-L" / "M condition L" license instead of a full M2 / M license?

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  • Mar 22nd, 2022 3:01 pm
Deal Fanatic
May 25, 2009
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Why would anyone go for the "M2-L" / "M condition L" license instead of a full M2 / M license?

There doesn't seem to be much of a difference in requirements in getting either license, ie. It's not easier or faster to get an M2-L / M condition L license, so why would anyone limit themselves to that?

The only reason i could think of is that if you only ever have access to a vespa type vehicle and never want to get on a regular motorcycle (even just for the road test), then M2-L / M condition L allows you to go through the whole process without ever touching a regular motorcycle, correct? (if i understand correctly, you can do both road tests on your vespa type vehicle for the m2-l / m condition L, but m2 and M require full motorcycle even if just for the road tests?)

Also, say you only want to ride a vespa type vehicle, but you want full m2/m license, you still have to do both road tests on a full motorcycle, right?
24 replies
Deal Addict
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Sep 27, 2011
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Exactly that. I know an older lady who would never desire riding a motorcycle but has a 50cc Vespa for going around cottage town. It's super easy to ride an automatic Vespa (easier test) , a motorcycle (though there are a few DCT models now, but still typically heavier machines) is a bit more of a leaning curve.

You don't need to ever ride a motorcycle to get a M(L), that's the whole point.
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Deal Addict
Apr 10, 2002
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A few students in my class when I did my training at Georgian College were there (only) for the L license... they all wanted Vespas only.

@drz400 nice handle :) I've got one too (DRZ400, that is)
Sr. Member
Feb 17, 2004
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Wouldn't these riders also be exempt from doing the Highway (400 series) of the full M license test? That may be an advantage for many that are afraid of driving on a major highway.
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v82slo wrote: Wouldn't these riders also be exempt from doing the Highway (400 series) of the full M license test? That may be an advantage for many that are afraid of driving on a major highway.
Yes, you would have to have a death wish to take a Vespa on a 400 series highway. They are limited to 80 and below I believe.
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Deal Expert
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Jan 27, 2004
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I believe theres no highway test for the M (L condition) license. You get your full license without ever having to do a test afterwards right @ the training course.

Where as a full M eventually requires a highway test.
And no way a canadian 50cc motorbike can go on the highway.
By law they are limited to 70km/hr.

This license only good for people who want to scoot around on a 50cc bike.

Would be interesting if they had full speed full powered 50cc bikes available like they do in Europe… thats if the insurance rates can be much cheaper.

Aprilia rs50 is a hit over there

Image

And theres that 50cc racing class. Almost as funky as that side car motorcycle racing class. Lol
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drz400 wrote: Yes, you would have to have a death wish to take a Vespa on a 400 series highway. They are limited to 80 and below I believe.
50cc vespa no.

300cc vespa, no problem.
https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/gts/

Actually a 150cc vespa can do it… i’ve done it before. Lol. The speed is no problem on the dvp or gardiner 90km/hr. Its just the visibility thAts dangerous since they are physically smaller.


Or Suzuki Burgman 400cc
Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2004
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UrbanPoet wrote: 50cc vespa no.

300cc vespa, no problem.
https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/gts/

Actually a 150cc vespa can do it… i’ve done it before. Lol. The speed is no problem on the dvp or gardiner 90km/hr. Its just the visibility thAts dangerous since they are physically smaller.


Or Suzuki Burgman 400cc
Taking a 150cc bike on a 400 series highway is an absolute death wish Face With Stuck-out Tongue And Tightly-closed Eyes

I’d argue that even a 300cc on a 400 series highway is pretty damn dangerous. It wouldn’t have enough power to get out of the way of a car or truck when following the flow of regular traffic which is already 120kph.
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May 23, 2008
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I love how OP answered their own question (which was self-explanatory based on the licensing conditions) and then disappeared into the ether.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2015
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UrbanPoet wrote: I believe theres no highway test for the M (L condition) license. You get your full license without ever having to do a test afterwards right @ the training course.

Where as a full M eventually requires a highway test.
And no way a canadian 50cc motorbike can go on the highway.
By law they are limited to 70km/hr.

This license only good for people who want to scoot around on a 50cc bike.

Would be interesting if they had full speed full powered 50cc bikes available like they do in Europe… thats if the insurance rates can be much cheaper.

Aprilia rs50 is a hit over there

Image

And theres that 50cc racing class. Almost as funky as that side car motorcycle racing class. Lol
They’re restricted by BHP/speed in Europe too so can’t go any faster than any other 50cc scooter.

If you want to ride a derestricted one (legally) you would need a full licence.
Deal Guru
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Nov 27, 2005
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CensoredByRFD wrote: Taking a 150cc bike on a 400 series highway is an absolute death wish Face With Stuck-out Tongue And Tightly-closed Eyes

I’d argue that even a 300cc on a 400 series highway is pretty damn dangerous. It wouldn’t have enough power to get out of the way of a car or truck when following the flow of regular traffic which is already 120kph.
I rode a Honda CBR250 on the 400 series highways a few years ago and have to agree. It's not powerful enough to suddenly get away from trouble if anything happens. It struggled to simply stay with the flow of traffic at times, especially if there's headwind or you're riding uphill.
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Jan 5, 2004
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board123 wrote: I rode a Honda CBR250 on the 400 series highways a few years ago and have to agree. It's not powerful enough to suddenly get away from trouble if anything happens. It struggled to simply stay with the flow of traffic at times, especially if there's headwind or you're riding uphill.
The 250 I had moved a hell lot quicker than the 2008 Civic Si I had then........never understood that argument. If you can't gas yourself out, slow down. Plenty of cars out there drive 100km/h on the dot, don't see why a 250/300/400 can't do the same. And the 250/300/400 has no problem accelerating from 100-130kmh dropping a gear, might be tough on uphill with headwind and if you weighed over 200lbs, but how often does that happen on the 400 series? Sure it's nice to be able to go from 100-150 dropping down a gear or two on a 600/650 in a few seconds to pull away from everyone but I certainly don't need to use "safety" as an excuse to support my speeding behaviour.
Sr. Member
Aug 5, 2007
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UrbanPoet wrote:
Actually a 150cc vespa can do it… i’ve done it before. Lol. The speed is no problem on the dvp or gardiner 90km/hr. Its just the visibility thAts dangerous since they are physically smaller.

eh, still sketchy. i teach my students to always be passing, hard to pass anything on a 150cc vespa. easier to know where cages are if you're always passing them.
Sr. Member
Aug 5, 2007
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thephenom wrote: The 250 I had moved a hell lot quicker than the 2008 Civic Si I had then........never understood that argument. If you can't gas yourself out, slow down. Plenty of cars out there drive 100km/h on the dot, don't see why a 250/300/400 can't do the same. And the 250/300/400 has no problem accelerating from 100-130kmh dropping a gear, might be tough on uphill with headwind and if you weighed over 200lbs, but how often does that happen on the 400 series? Sure it's nice to be able to go from 100-150 dropping down a gear or two on a 600/650 in a few seconds to pull away from everyone but I certainly don't need to use "safety" as an excuse to support my speeding behaviour.
here in quebec, if you drive 100kmh on some highways, you're more dangerous to everyone around you than going 140.

a 250cc is the bare minimum i'd say for a highway motorcycle. and yes, being able to gas yourself out of a sticky situation with 2 cars merging into your lane is 100% a safety manoeuvre.
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Apr 11, 2006
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Vaughan
Which licence is required in Ontario to operate the Slingshot?
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May 23, 2009
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thephenom wrote: The 250 I had moved a hell lot quicker than the 2008 Civic Si I had then........never understood that argument. If you can't gas yourself out, slow down. Plenty of cars out there drive 100km/h on the dot, don't see why a 250/300/400 can't do the same. And the 250/300/400 has no problem accelerating from 100-130kmh dropping a gear, might be tough on uphill with headwind and if you weighed over 200lbs, but how often does that happen on the 400 series? Sure it's nice to be able to go from 100-150 dropping down a gear or two on a 600/650 in a few seconds to pull away from everyone but I certainly don't need to use "safety" as an excuse to support my speeding behaviour.
Totally aggree with this. I had a 2012 Ninja 250 and never felt it was lacking if I drop a gear and accelerate from 100-130kmh. It is not thesame performance as a 600cc but the pickup before you hit 150kph is much better than most cars on the road.
Member
Mar 2, 2011
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Ottawa
fromage wrote:
here in quebec, if you drive 100kmh on some highways, you're more dangerous to everyone around you than going 140.

a 250cc is the bare minimum i'd say for a highway motorcycle. and yes, being able to gas yourself out of a sticky situation with 2 cars merging into your lane is 100% a safety manoeuvre.
I've never been on a highway in QC where the flow of traffic was going 140 .. 120 yes, which matches any major highway in Ontario.

On my 300cc bike (or car) I have yet to find any of these situations where "gassing it out" on a 100 km/h highway doesn't make things worse. Having said that, I can still sit at 130 km/h just fine and accelerate (pass) vehicles with no issue..

Manoeuvring, slowing down, and never getting into dangerous situations in the first place (never camp in blind spots, predict what traffic up head is doing, etc) is what will save you.
kenchau wrote: Which licence is required in Ontario to operate the Slingshot?
G. That "thing" is not a motorcycle Face With Tears Of Joy
Expect this to change at some point though, Ontario allowing 3-wheeled m/c is still pretty new so they may change the licencing requirements.
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Jan 5, 2004
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fromage wrote: eh, still sketchy. i teach my students to always be passing, hard to pass anything on a 150cc vespa. easier to know where cages are if you're always passing them.
fromage wrote: here in quebec, if you drive 100kmh on some highways, you're more dangerous to everyone around you than going 140.

a 250cc is the bare minimum i'd say for a highway motorcycle. and yes, being able to gas yourself out of a sticky situation with 2 cars merging into your lane is 100% a safety manoeuvre.
I don't think you are a very good instructor if your teaching is telling your students just speed up and pass everyone. Over the years, whether it's a car driving or motorcycle instructor, I've never been taught to speed pass potential danger. You would fail your driving and motorcycle tests if you tried to speed pass mergers. I don't see what the problem is letting 2 cars merge into your lane regardless of whether you're in a car or on a bike.
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Apr 11, 2006
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virulent wrote:
G. That "thing" is not a motorcycle Face With Tears Of Joy
Expect this to change at some point though, Ontario allowing 3-wheeled m/c is still pretty new so they may change the licencing requirements.
Okay. For some reason I thought I read back then that it requires a Motorcycle licence.

But nevertheless, this thread is good to know because I also am interested in a Vespa type scooter and don't want any business to do with riding motorcycles.
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Mar 2, 2011
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kenchau wrote: Okay. For some reason I thought I read back then that it requires a Motorcycle licence.

But nevertheless, this thread is good to know because I also am interested in a Vespa type scooter and don't want any business to do with riding motorcycles.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/three-wheeled-vehicles

Just a warning, look at insurance before you convince yourself of this (scooter) plan if you haven't yet. If it's remotely about cost savings, the cost savings fly out the window when you get m/c insurance in Ontario.

Honestly, I'd still recommend getting a full M licence. Pay for an M1 Exit course to get riding fundamentals down (you will learn on a 125cc m/c not a scooter there) which is very important if some of the crazy @#$% that I've seen scooter riders do is any indication.

You can do M2 exit and receive a full M without touching a real m/c after M1 Exit course. Take a look at RTI since you are in GTA. Some ministry locations will allow it if you are on a 150cc scooter (where I am, there is a location that only goes onto 80 km/h highways anyway).

If you change your mind later on a full-speed motorcycle you will sorely regret it as you will have to repeat the entire process again from scratch. The courses are more about learning good behaviours and fundamentals and those apply equally to motorcycles and scooters, I would always recommend them no matter the scenario.

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