Computers & Electronics

Win 10 issues after Oct 08/19 update?

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Win 10 issues after Oct 08/19 update?

Wondering if anybody else is having issues after the last update Tuesday?

I've got one piece of software that minimizes to the task bar, shows in task manager but won't expand to the desktop.
I have to close it then reopen.
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Aug 22, 2006
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Nope mostly because I run LTSC instead of SAC to avoid this nonsense.
Even LTSC has nonsense too.

I wish I could put Windows 7 on this machine.
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I'm not having that issue. I assume you tried some of your other software that you have installed (browsers, Adobe Reader, etc). If those are OK then maybe it's a bug in the software itself? Check to see if there's an update for the software.
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No issues here, but I'm not sure if I have that update either.
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ROYinTO wrote: Wondering if anybody else is having issues after the last update Tuesday?

I've got one piece of software that minimizes to the task bar, shows in task manager but won't expand to the desktop.
I have to close it then reopen.
Yes there are bugs. MS is telling people to rollback if you have the KB installed. Here is the links:

Patch Tuesday preliminary report: Looks like the fourth time’s a charm

Patch Tuesday problems persist: Start stops, Edge crumbles, Outlook and VMware shake
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death_hawk wrote: Nope mostly because I run LTSC instead of SAC to avoid this nonsense.
Even LTSC has nonsense too.

I wish I could put Windows 7 on this machine.
Yep, I've never trusted Windows update. Plenty of headaches from the past told me Microsoft's updates require significant stability testing before they should even be tried and increasingly their methodology has instead been to make average users beta testers. Never liked Windows 10's forced updates and was very willing to push Windows 7 to the limit if need be.

Like you I went with LTSC, and yes even that still needs to be debloated and messed with in order to come close to Windows 7 in simply to not be annoying. Thankfully one of its best features means LTSC users avoid this episode of Windows 10 problems.
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JeganV wrote: Yep, I've never trusted Windows update. Plenty of headaches from the past told me Microsoft's updates require significant stability testing before they should even be tried and increasingly their methodology has instead been to make average users beta testers. Never liked Windows 10's forced updates and was very willing to push Windows 7 to the limit if need be.
Me in a nutshell.
A new Windows 10 update pops and 2 days later there's a bunch of reports of shit breaking.
It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't forced. I mean... I get why it's forced otherwise no one would ever update. But if you're going to force an update you'd damn well better test the hell out of it.

Like you I went with LTSC, and yes even that still needs to be debloated and messed with in order to come close to Windows 7 in simply to not be annoying. Thankfully one of its best features means LTSC users avoid this episode of Windows 10 problems.
LTSC still requires a few hours of fixing unlike SAC which takes damn near an entire day to catch everything.
Man I hate 10. But nothing that's new works with 7. I swear I'm going to burn out a specific computer because the stupid ducking thing keeps waking up from hibernate for some reason. Yes. That's exactly what I want a hot computer to do is wake up while in an enclosed area. I really miss 7. If this wasn't a gaming computer I would have moved to Linux long ago. I'm glad it's making strides in the gaming department but it's still not quite nearly as good.
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death_hawk wrote: Me in a nutshell.
A new Windows 10 update pops and 2 days later there's a bunch of reports of shit breaking.
It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't forced. I mean... I get why it's forced otherwise no one would ever update. But if you're going to force an update you'd damn well better test the hell out of it.



LTSC still requires a few hours of fixing unlike SAC which takes damn near an entire day to catch everything.
Man I hate 10. But nothing that's new works with 7. I swear I'm going to burn out a specific computer because the stupid ducking thing keeps waking up from hibernate for some reason. Yes. That's exactly what I want a hot computer to do is wake up while in an enclosed area. I really miss 7. If this wasn't a gaming computer I would have moved to Linux long ago. I'm glad it's making strides in the gaming department but it's still not quite nearly as good.
There are ways to get 7 to technically work even on new hardware, software though probably not. I got my 3900X for instance to work on it despite zero official support. Having said that, Windows 7's biggest issue with new stuff is drivers. When the drivers don't work as intended, you run straight into driver hell which is not fun.

When it comes to older hardware though, I told my dad to go back to Windows 7 for his laptop. W10 was a total pain on that machine especially the SAC version, we finally got it to stabilize for the most part once Windows 7 returned as LTSC wasn't stable enough either. When I finally reconfigure my old rig for my mom to use which is missing a GPU, that machine will also be on Windows 7 as well.
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JeganV wrote: There are ways to get 7 to technically work even on new hardware, software though probably not. I got my 3900X for instance to work on it despite zero official support.
Interesting.... It's not like I have anything new in mine except for the CPU/board. The GPUs are GT710.
But the board is going to be the hardest part since it has the most drivers.
I always knew it was possible but I didn't want to have to fight with drivers.

It was already stupid enough with one notebook that had 8 that I tried to put 7 on where USB didn't work.
US ducking B. I'm not bitter or anything....
Having said that, Windows 7's biggest issue with new stuff is drivers. When the drivers don't work as intended, you run straight into driver hell which is not fun.
Even Windows 10 has a good fight with drivers. I spent hours on a NUC sized computer (not an actual Intel NUC) because I couldn't get the stupid wireless working.
When it comes to older hardware though, I told my dad to go back to Windows 7 for his laptop. W10 was a total pain on that machine especially the SAC version, we finally got it to stabilize for the most part once Windows 7 returned as LTSC wasn't stable enough either. When I finally reconfigure my old rig for my mom to use which is missing a GPU, that machine will also be on Windows 7 as well.
I find myself buying older hardware just so I can stay on 7.
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death_hawk wrote: Interesting.... It's not like I have anything new in mine except for the CPU/board. The GPUs are GT710.
But the board is going to be the hardest part since it has the most drivers.
I always knew it was possible but I didn't want to have to fight with drivers.

It was already stupid enough with one notebook that had 8 that I tried to put 7 on where USB didn't work.
US ducking B. I'm not bitter or anything....


Even Windows 10 has a good fight with drivers. I spent hours on a NUC sized computer (not an actual Intel NUC) because I couldn't get the stupid wireless working.


I find myself buying older hardware just so I can stay on 7.
The newest hardware that has windows 7 support when it comes to CPU/Mobo combo is going to be 2nd gen Ryzen rather than 3rd gen. AMD does officially support Windows 7 for those platforms, although it was something they initially didn't do. I guess they did so to make inroads with enthusiasts who were tight on money and were sticking to older hardware, since you can easily download even their latest chipset drivers and they're Windows 7 compatible. Same story with the boards, X470 and B450 will often have Windows 7 drivers available, although the higher end boards might leave out some features for Windows 7. To make things easier if you plan to ever go this route you'll want the PS/2 port on the motherboard, that will be necessary to get through the USB problem. Find an ancient PS/2 mouse or keyboard you'll get through one of the biggest hurdles.
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JeganV wrote: B450 will often have Windows 7 drivers available
BRB looking to see if my board has drivers.

To make things easier if you plan to ever go this route you'll want the PS/2 port on the motherboard, that will be necessary to get through the USB problem. Find an ancient PS/2 mouse or keyboard you'll get through one of the biggest hurdles.
WTF really?
I mean... I damn near just learned that PS/2 is a thing still but to actually use it still is just... wow.
I get when the initial transition from PS/2 to USB was snooty, but today? How TF is it not fixed even today?
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death_hawk wrote: BRB looking to see if my board has drivers.



WTF really?
I mean... I damn near just learned that PS/2 is a thing still but to actually use it still is just... wow.
I get when the initial transition from PS/2 to USB was snooty, but today? How TF is it not fixed even today?
Lots of people still use PS/2, I guess for reasons like this and nostalgia reasons. Just remember the golden rule when doing this never hot-swap or remove PS/2 even on modern hardware ... because you never know.



Hotplugging
PS/2 ports are designed to connect the digital I/O lines of the microcontroller in the external device directly to the digital lines of the microcontroller on the motherboard. They are not designed to be hot swappable. Hot swapping PS/2 devices usually does not cause damage due to the fact that more modern microcontrollers tend to have more robust I/O lines built into them which are harder to damage than those of older controllers; however, hot swapping can still potentially cause damage on older machines, or machines with less robust port implementations.

If they are hotswapped, the devices must be similar enough that the driver running on the host system recognizes, and can be used with, the new device. Otherwise, the new device will not function properly. While this is seldom an issue with standard keyboard devices, the host system rarely recognizes the new device attached to the PS/2 mouse port. In practice most keyboards can be hotswapped but this should be avoided.
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heyyahblah wrote: Lots of people still use PS/2, I guess for reasons like this and nostalgia reasons. Just remember the golden rule when doing this never hot-swap or remove PS/2 even on modern hardware ... because you never know.
I had a conversation regarding PS/2 on here a few months ago and it still surprises me.
I used to have a TON of PS/2 stuff but I couldn't even come up with a mouse or keyboard that has one today.
I think I still have an unused 8 port KVM switch that's PS/2 as well. Ended up switching to IPMI and never actually used it.

It's still a weird to me that it's actually a thing today.
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death_hawk wrote: I had a conversation regarding PS/2 on here a few months ago and it still surprises me.
I used to have a TON of PS/2 stuff but I couldn't even come up with a mouse or keyboard that has one today.
I think I still have an unused 8 port KVM switch that's PS/2 as well. Ended up switching to IPMI and never actually used it.

It's still a weird to me that it's actually a thing today.
The old IBM Model M is likely where a lot of the PS/2 love remains, its the only thing I know of from the beige era of computers that people still covet. Although in the old days the idea of PS/2 peripherals interrupting the CPU versus USB's polling, there was a belief that they were faster in that they had less to no latency versus USB. For keyboards N-key rollover is something they support 100%, USB keyboards have to mimic several keyboards to attempt to do so. That said for the vast majority of users, PS/2 is obsolete, especially when PS/2 is not hot swappable.

For tech support, this is frankly the only area PS/2 peripherals still make sense even today. So long as there is a port, the BIOS will always recognize them as it needs no drivers, which is why it can make the Windows 7 installation happen even missing all drivers. There, its 100% reliable even on the most screwed up machine.
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Well the real main reasons for it is like JeganV mentioned above. PS/2 requires no drivers, full n-key rollover, hardcore enthusiasts with their Model-M boards, and more support for older technology and not everyone likes using usb stuff, but most importantly compatibility with keyboards and newer BIOSes/UEFI's. PS/2 will never fail you during a boot or OS install where USB can or will not work, crippling you.

Plus, SuperIO chips, used on motherboards still have ps/2 support, so it really costs just a few cents more for the manufacturer to add ps/2 support. I heard realistically the cost of adding a PS/2 port is about 5-10 cents USD, because of high USB demand on everything out there.

I always keep a PS/2 keyboard and mouse in storage in case of emergencies.

(haha posted at the exact same time thinking the exact same things) lool
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Oh don't get me wrong, I understand the love and virtues of PS/2.
Then again... I can't really talk. I'm clinging to VGA like it's actually going out of style.

Some old stuff just works. Or it doesn't and it's easy to troubleshoot.
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Try Linux Mint Cinnamon 19.2
If they thumb you down I will up it just because

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