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Wind mobile – final sale, no refund

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  • Dec 15th, 2010 11:15 am
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[OP]
Newbie
Nov 7, 2008
15 posts
1 upvote

Wind mobile – final sale, no refund

I decided to share my story with you and seek your opinion on it.

I was looking for cheap mobile phone service for my daughter. She wanted unlimited text messaging and just few talk minutes. After having done research on prices from different mobile phone services providers I came across the Wind mobile offer. They offer service my daughter wants for $7.5 for the first 6 months and then for $20 thereafter.
I checked the coverage map and I realized that area of our house and my daughter’s school is not covered and should be covered by the end of 2010 (sounds like now, but it is still not covered). I decided to inquire about it in the store. I also must note here that she has her own phone handset she wanted to use on wind mobile network to make the story complete.

Equipped with all the information I walked into the local store - Blockbuster on Trafalgar road in Oakville. I ran into problem immediately when I spent 5 minutes arguing with the wind mobile rep over my cell phone. Without any checking he claimed that majority of the phones will not work on wind mobile network. Eventually he agreed to use his SIM card to test the phone and bingo …. it did work no problem. Silly, but I believe that any rationally thinking individual would test it first and then started to discuss other options.

Next I raised my concern about coverage area. The wind mobile rep checked the coverage map on wind mobile website and he concluded that he lives in that area and he is always in “home zone”, just web site in not up-to-date. After he added that if it doesn’t work, I would be refunded under condition that it is less then I believe two weeks from purchase and less then 10 minutes of talk time I agreed to proceed with the purchase.

I realized right away that the SIM card cost is overpriced ($20 versus $10 other providers charge), but I agreed to accept it, because in long run it would pay off easily.

To make sure that there will be no surprise charges at the end of the month, I decided to go with the monthly prepaid option.

Next day I learned from my daughter that she is in “away zone” in the school and all the way from the school to our house. Only in our house and its close vicinity she is in the “home zone”. Ironically I must say it is logical, it is our home after all :-) Because of the smart decision block any services which is not covered by the plan she wasn’t able to neither text nor call. I asked her to give it a one more try next day. She did it with same result.

After such experience I realized that wind mobile will not do it for her and she decided to go with other provider. All this happen two days after purchase. I went back to store asking for refund. This time I was told that SIM cards are final sale because they cannot be reused once they are entered into system. I argued for a little while in the store, but then I gave up and I called customer service next day. They just repeated same stuff over and now I’m left with bill $22.6 (assuming that prepaid service will be refunded) for 2 days use of SIM card. At this point I want to stress that I wasn’t informed at the time of the purchase that SIM card is a final sale and it is not written on the receipt either. When I asked customer service about it, I was told that it is on the website, but I cannot find it there either.
Anyway, enough of long story.

Please can you suggest what I can do to get the refund for wasted SIM card?
If you disagree with me in terms that I shouldn’t be eligible for refund on the SIM card, please feel free to post your comments.
25 replies
Newbie
Nov 11, 2010
5 posts
3 upvotes
vancouver
Did your phone say WIND home at the store? What phone is she using? It might be a problem with the PHONE.
Deal Addict
Oct 12, 2005
3806 posts
23 upvotes
SIM Cards are normally final sale - you can resell it for $15 with 416/647 area code if it's still activated on Wind's system.

All providers have rigid guidelines. In fact, Wind SIMs are now $25+Tax, Mobilicity is $20+Tax, Big 3 Sims charge $10+Tax when you bring your own phone. That sales rep shouldn't have argued with you but honestly many AWS phones are not compatible. And unless that rep checks your phone's original spectrum he can't guarantee compatibility.

I agree Wind's coverage should be extended, however, researching on hofo before visiting Wind would have provided correct answers and prevented your problems. Honestly, your story happens with many companies & their customers - at least Wind refunded your purchase (sans SIM).

In your daughter's case, Chatr may be the best solution if she doesn't require data (Chatr is offering DATA in the new year) or grab a SOLO compatible phone.
[OP]
Newbie
Nov 7, 2008
15 posts
1 upvote
mrschow99 wrote: Did your phone say WIND home at the store? What phone is she using? It might be a problem with the PHONE.

Yes, it did say home zone at the store. I also tested it in nighttime and I got way larger coverage radius around our house, but it is all because radio waves coverage area is daytime dependent and also weather dependent. I doubt that this is a phone problem, considering that our area is officially marked as not covered. It is funny how it is done. Everything is covered on the map except area around 3rd line north of QEW. So basically we are small isolated area inside covered area and it explains why under some circumstances we are having signal. If you want to check what I'm talking about enter on Wind mobile website postal code L6M3E1.
[OP]
Newbie
Nov 7, 2008
15 posts
1 upvote
7jaii wrote: SIM Cards are normally final sale - you can resell it for $15 with 416/647 area code if it's still activated on Wind's system.
Aren't consumers suppose to be notified that purchase made is final sale? I checked consumers protection law in Ontario and you have by law 10 days cool off period, but the purchase must be over $50. This suggests that by default nothing is a final sale unless stated otherwise.
Thanks you for the suggestion of a re-sale. I checked kijiji website and there are people selling it, although I'm not sure whether I can sell it, because the number was ported over to FIDO as a new provider. Does it matter? How can I check that it is active on Wind's system?
7jaii wrote: All providers have rigid guidelines. In fact, Wind SIMs are now $25+Tax, Mobilicity is $20+Tax, Big 3 Sims charge $10+Tax when you bring your own phone. That sales rep shouldn't have argued with you but honestly many AWS phones are not compatible. And unless that rep checks your phone's original spectrum he can't guarantee compatibility.
I don't know exact specifics of the phones compatible with wind, but I just thought that Wind is using 1700Hmz band, so If your phone has it it should be all what you need. I obviously understand that if you are interested in 3G you must UMTS band 1700 on your phone, but if you have quad band phone you should be good for voice and txt messages. Am I wrong?
7jaii wrote: I agree Wind's coverage should be extended, however, researching on hofo before visiting Wind would have provided correct answers and prevented your problems. Honestly, your story happens with many companies & their customers - at least Wind refunded your purchase (sans SIM).
Is HOFO acronym for HowardForums? Never heard it before, and therefore I couldn't check. Next time I know :-)
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Jan 11, 2008
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robsonr wrote: Aren't consumers suppose to be notified that purchase made is final sale? I checked consumers protection law in Ontario and you have by law 10 days cool off period, but the purchase must be over $50. This suggests that by default nothing is a final sale unless stated otherwise.
Thanks you for the suggestion of a re-sale. I checked kijiji website and there are people selling it, although I'm not sure whether I can sell it, because the number was ported over to FIDO as a new provider. Does it matter? How can I check that it is active on Wind's system?



I don't know exact specifics of the phones compatible with wind, but I just thought that Wind is using 1700Hmz band, so If your phone has it it should be all what you need. I obviously understand that if you are interested in 3G you must UMTS band 1700 on your phone, but if you have quad band phone you should be good for voice and txt messages. Am I wrong?



Is HOFO acronym for HowardForums? Never heard it before, and therefore I couldn't check. Next time I know :-)

The cooling off period only applies if the contract was signed in your home (there are provisions for cooling off periods in other situations as well, such as fitness club memberships, timeshares, etc and those agreements don't have to be signed in your home).
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Oct 22, 2007
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robsonr wrote: Aren't consumers suppose to be notified that purchase made is final sale? I checked consumers protection law in Ontario and you have by law 10 days cool off period, but the purchase must be over $50. This suggests that by default nothing is a final sale unless stated otherwise.
It's actually the opposite, all sales are considered final.

IMHO, getting outta this mess loosing only $23 is lucky when you consider the woes others have had with cell providers.

http://www.easternontario.bbb.org/WWWRo ... 8&art=1687
Since a sales transaction is regarded in law as a contract in which title to property is transferred, it is, generally, final.

Under the Business Practices Act (Ontario), if the contract has been entered into by a consumer as a result of a false, misleading, deceptive or unconscionable consumer representation made by the seller, the contract my be rescinded by the consumer. In most circumstances, where such a representation has been made or where the goods supplied are not reasonable fit for the purpose for which they were intended, or are not merchantable then the buyer may have a claim against the seller. The finality of a sales transaction protects both parties. The consumer can’t ask for his money back because he has found the same item for a better price and the seller can’t take the item back if he finds someone who will pay more for it.

It is within a store’s legal rights to deal individually with each customer. There is no requirement that store policies publicized, but most stores find it in the best interests of consumer relations both to have a consistent policy and to make sure its customers are aware of its terms.

A merchant is not legally obliged to offer his customers cash refunds, credit notes, or exchanges (in the absence of contractual terms creating such an obligation), and each merchant is free to set his own policy in this area.
Deal Addict
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Sep 23, 2009
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Plus the rep stated it was a Home zone in your home's area, not where your daughter attends school. So he was right about that. Sorry to hear about the rest of the experience though.
[OP]
Newbie
Nov 7, 2008
15 posts
1 upvote
Ottomaddox wrote: It's actually the opposite, all sales are considered final.
Good to know, apparently I need to correct view on finality of purchases.

Thank you very much for the information, very useful.
[OP]
Newbie
Nov 7, 2008
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Vednar wrote: Plus the rep stated it was a Home zone in your home's area, not where your daughter attends school. So he was right about that. Sorry to hear about the rest of the experience though.

I understand that it wasn't clear from my original post, but my daughter's school is only 10 minutes walk from our house. When sales rep referred to his house where he has "home zone" reception, it is actually closer to the school, then to our house.
Deal Guru
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Feb 10, 2007
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robsonr wrote: I understand that it wasn't clear from my original post, but my daughter's school is only 10 minutes walk from our house. When sales rep referred to his house where he has "home zone" reception, it is actually closer to the school, then to our house.

No wireless carrier will guarantee signal


Like the other guy said, you clearly didn't do enough research on this. What you shouldve done is bought the cheapest phone then use the sim that came with it to do testing at the places you are gonna use the phone at. Then return the phone once you have checked the coverage.

I did this at a dealer and I clearly told them that's what I'm gonna do, and they still refund the phone without issue.

$20 for a sim is overpriced ? I'm guessing they aren't allow to make money...
[self promotion rule violation, removed twice already][self promotion rule violation, removed twice already]Trolling or Threadcrapping Trolling - woooooooo 3k on a laptop woooooooo 3k on a laptop woooooooo 3k on a laptop woooooooo 3k on a laptop
Deal Addict
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Nov 9, 2008
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WTS WIND SIM CARD $10

Also, I have Wind and their reception is pretty bad inside most buildings, it's a pain in the ass that I have to walk outside to see if I got any new texts (which I normally don't since I'm lonely :cry :) . J/k about the bracket part though. :confused:
Buy Bell, and you go to HELL! :-0
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Jan 7, 2002
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Waterloo, ON
robsonr wrote: Good to know, apparently I need to correct view on finality of purchases.
Even so this doesn't preclude the seller from accepting returns, giving refunds, etc. as a goodwill gesture. It doesn't cost much time to fire a polite message to Wind, express your disappointment, and make a request for refund. If they do, fine. If they don't, consider it the price of an education.

That said, products are sold with the implied warranty that they'll work for the circumstances under which they're sold. For instance, if you buy a cellphone/SIM it's implied that it will work within the areas described on the carrier's coverage map. If it doesn't then the buyer has the right to return the cellphone/SIM and get a refund. Now in this case the matter gets complicated because the cellphone wasn't provided by Wind, the coverage map says, "by the end of 2010", there's confusion about "home" and "away" zones, etc. So it's a grey area. Seems to me that's even more reason to see if they'll do a refund.
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[OP]
Newbie
Nov 7, 2008
15 posts
1 upvote
sexyj wrote: Like the other guy said, you clearly didn't do enough research on this. What you shouldve done is bought the cheapest phone then use the sim that came with it to do testing at the places you are gonna use the phone at. Then return the phone once you have checked the coverage.
Unfortunately I must agree with you that I didn't do enough research and didn't ask enough questions, lesson learned.

On the other hand I must say that the way they do thing seems to me a little up-side-down. Apparently it is ok with them to buy a phone use it for testing and get the refund for the phone and the SIM cards when you reached your decision, however it is not ok to refund just SIM card. Considering that the returned phone they should sell as used after it has been returned back to store, it seems to me like they are loosing twice in this case - on the SIM card and on the phone. That's just me, wind apparently thinks differently.
[OP]
Newbie
Nov 7, 2008
15 posts
1 upvote
bylo wrote: Even so this doesn't preclude the seller from accepting returns, giving refunds, etc. as a goodwill gesture. It doesn't cost much time to fire a polite message to Wind, express your disappointment, and make a request for refund. If they do, fine. If they don't, consider it the price of an education.
I will definitely express my disappointment with them. I'm still waiting for their response to my request for help through their web page. I keep you updated.
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May 12, 2004
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robsonr wrote: I was looking for cheap mobile phone service for my daughter. She wanted unlimited text messaging and just few talk minutes.

I checked the coverage map and I realized that area of our house and my daughter’s school is not covered and should be covered by the end of 2010 (sounds like now, but it is still not covered).

Next day I learned from my daughter that she is in “away zone” in the school and all the way from the school to our house.
If you disagree with me in terms that I shouldn’t be eligible for refund on the SIM card, please feel free to post your comments.

You wanted comments? I don't disagree witht he SIM card, and I might be dating myself, but why on earth does your daughter need to be sending text messages AT SCHOOL? Let alone not being old enough to pay her own way and get her own phone? I seriously question your parenting skills. "All my friends have one" excuse instills very low morals in your child.

I can see the use of a phone for emergency reasons...but in an emergency the last thing you want to do is text someone hoping they're near their mobile phone.
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Nov 13, 2008
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Cas77 wrote: You wanted comments? I don't disagree witht he SIM card, and I might be dating myself, but why on earth does your daughter need to be sending text messages AT SCHOOL? Let alone not being old enough to pay her own way and get her own phone? I seriously question your parenting skills. "All my friends have one" excuse instills very low morals in your child.

I can see the use of a phone for emergency reasons...but in an emergency the last thing you want to do is text someone hoping they're near their mobile phone.

Is that really appropriate? You dont know how his daughter was planning on using the phone, perhaps it was only for at breaks or perhaps the intention was to be able to call the parents in case of emergency. I saw no cause there to question their parenting.
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EmperorOfCanada wrote: Is that really appropriate? You dont know how his daughter was planning on using the phone, perhaps it was only for at breaks or perhaps the intention was to be able to call the parents in case of emergency. I saw no cause there to question their parenting.

Yes it is appropriate. OP asked for comments.

EDIT: This was in OP's post: "She wanted unlimited text messaging and just few talk minutes."

Breaks or not, the person in question is a CHILD. Children require social interaction, there's no need for a child to text another child in the school (let alone a classroom)...that is absolutely absurd.

Maybe if parents started asking themselves these questions before giving in to these ridiculous propositions out of guilt, our future generations would not have the attention span of a goldfish.

I have done volunteer work at local schools and have seen firsthand the end results of these proposterous actions by parents. Can you say the same? What percentage of parents have actually set foot in a school to fully understand the implications of their ludicrous actions?

Now I'm not condoning a child with good behavior and doing well in school not have a mobile phone to use evenings and weekends. There's a time and place for everything, a mobile phone in a school during school hours is absolutely the dumbest idea a parent can have.

If you want a child to have a cell phone for emergency, a $25 annual prepaid with 100 minutes on a big-3 carrier (read available pretty much everywhere) is more than enough.

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